CHICAGO | City Casino - Page 34

west-town-brad · #**661** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 2:56 AM**

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LouisVanDerWright · #**662** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 5:58 AM**

The 78 site is the clear winner here, just think of the further activation of the riverfront that it creates. Suddenly the architecture tours don't end with a weird industrial brownfield, but an exclamation point, a fast talking guy in a Zoot suit whispering "hey man, come check this out later" to every tourist that passes by on a boat.

Think of a complete riverwalk from the Lakefront to here literally just funneling tourists into the gaping maw of our glorious new casino like one of those sand worms (Antlion) that inspired the Sarlacc in Star Wars.

Think of giving all the dingos in their yachts somewhere else to boat to. Another destination to dock up at and leave some of the money they otherwise pour into their fuel tank behind for the rest of us to benefit from.

rivernorthlurker · #**663** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 7:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

The 78 site is the clear winner here, just think of the further activation of the riverfront that it creates. Suddenly the architecture tours don't end with a weird industrial brownfield, but an exclamation point, a fast talking guy in a Zoot suit whispering "hey man, come check this out later" to every tourist that passes by on a boat.

Think of a complete riverwalk from the Lakefront to here literally just funneling tourists into the gaping maw of our glorious new casino like one of those sand worms (Antlion) that inspired the Sarlacc in Star Wars.

Think of giving all the dingos in their yachts somewhere else to boat to. Another destination to dock up at and leave some of the money they otherwise pour into their fuel tank behind for the rest of us to benefit from.

Getting people on yachts to park somewhere else in the summer other than on the riverwalk is a-ok with me!

And yes this has a major effect of expanding the downtown core and energy south both in reality and psychologically. Suddenly south of the Ida B Wells will start to feel like it's part of downtown triggering a chain reaction in redevelopment all the to the Stevenson including Chinatown/MotorRow/Printer's Row/Near South Side etc. Maybe that was already going to happen with the 78 but I think this will accelerate it and maybe attract more commercial/entertainment development as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toasty Joe

It's only a matter of how ambitious we want to be. Related could and would pull this off very nicely. And who better to be incentivized to cap the tracks across the river? Hell at this point with Hudson Yards, they must have figured some efficiencies in the process.

Great point - the fact that Related is behind the 78 plan can't be overstated as another reason for the strength of the proposal. It would be one thing if a less reputable developer were behind it with limited experience executing projects of this magnitude - risking substantial v/e and/or going over-budget/delays etc. But Related is basically one of the top developers in the world. And after finishing Hudson Yards - IMO they've shown they can be relied on and are capable of more or less anything.

galleyfox · #**664** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 2:54 PM**

The full presentation video is now posted online.

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/mayor/iframe/live.html

I don’t think Related posted all 3 rendered videos on its website, but some extra images.

Chisouthside · #**665** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 3:21 PM**

Did they say when the city expects to make a decision?

Kngkyle · #**666** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 3:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chisouthside

Did they say when the city expects to make a decision?

Lightfoot stated that the city aims to have made their decision by Q1 2022 but then it goes to the Illinois Gaming Board to give final approval and it's not clear how long that would take.

Tom In Chicago · #**667** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 4:08 PM**

The 78 site is certainly the most ostentatious architecturally but what can you hope for with a casino(?). . . it doesn't really address the traffic problem in any meaningful way, and it appears that everyone is sold on this observation tower thingy that - while neat - doesn't really make much sense to me (I supposed that will need to be sussed out in future revisions, but no-one is going to mistake this as an "Eiffel Tower of Chicago" equivalent). . .

The one that makes the most "sense" is obviously the Rivers McCormick Place as it is an existing structure that is barely in use, so it would be the fastest solution to start the revenue train. . . the location isn't offensive to any existing traffic concerns and can accommodate any parking, entertainment and hotels are already nearby. . . also you'll have a ready audience of trade show visitors which will be the de facto destination after hours for those folks. . .

If the dreamers win it will be the 78. . . if the bean counters win it will be McCormick Place. . . I'm not terribly optimistic that either of these will turn out the way we hope they will though. . .

. . .

r18tdi · #**668** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 4:11 PM**

Not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but both Bally's proposals call for the high-rise to be built in phases as a two-part vertical expansion?

Bonsai Tree · #**669** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 5:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

The 78 site is certainly the most ostentatious architecturally but what can you hope for with a casino(?). . . it doesn't really address the traffic problem in any meaningful way, and it appears that everyone is sold on this observation tower thingy that - while neat - doesn't really make much sense to me (I supposed that will need to be sussed out in future revisions, but no-one is going to mistake this as an "Eiffel Tower of Chicago" equivalent). . .

. . .

I'm honestly pretty confused why you don't think the observation tower makes sense. The whole point is to make the entire site an entertainment district. The tower will bring tourists (and locals) to the area for the views. Especially if there are some cool activities or things to do at the top. It will be a big revenue generator for them as well. And the view down there will be fantastic since it'll be the only observation deck where you can see the entire skyline. This model seems to take a lot of inspiration from the Stratosphere in Vegas. I think it's really smart. Casinos need to be full-fledged entertainment districts if the city wants to maximize revenue. Otherwise, it'll just become another under-performing site for city and suburban residents to blow their money on.

Rizzo · #**670** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 5:21 PM**

The 78 site is my favorite because I think the architecture will remain attractive to the public longer than the other new proposals that seem like products for their time. All of them nice, but in 10 years, the other designs will be another generic casino.

The observation tower design is grabbing attention, but I doubt it will be that tall or have that structural appearance. It will probably be value engineered. For now, make a splash to win the competition and work through the structural and economic realities later.

Tom In Chicago · #**671** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 5:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonsai Tree

I'm honestly pretty confused why you don't think the observation tower makes sense.

The location is not ideal. . . you're looking at the skyline directly from the south. . . to the east there will likely be an obstruction with a tall building at Clark Street (unless this thing is really tall - but I'm not entirely sure that's been sussed out yet). . . the south view is unremarkable and you have a massive rail yard to the west with big box suburban retail further on and more unremarkable urbanity stretching west beyond that. . .

Finally, observation towers are kinda gimmicky. . . you've already got 2 really good observation areas in the Sears/Hancock buildings and another bone-headed plan to do the same at the Amoco building. . . I'm not opposed to the idea, but anything attached to a casino is likely gonna be just as garish and not fitting with Chicago's architectural aesthetic. . .

. . .

ardecila · #**672** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 5:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonsai Tree

I'm honestly pretty confused why you don't think the observation tower makes sense. The whole point is to make the entire site an entertainment district. The tower will bring tourists (and locals) to the area for the views. Especially if there are some cool activities or things to do at the top. It will be a big revenue generator for them as well. And the view down there will be fantastic since it'll be the only observation deck where you can see the entire skyline. This model seems to take a lot of inspiration from the Stratosphere in Vegas. I think it's really smart. Casinos need to be full-fledged entertainment districts if the city wants to maximize revenue. Otherwise, it'll just become another under-performing site for city and suburban residents to blow their money on.

This is Related, so I think the model is more like Vessel. Curt Bailey also described it as an "Eiffel Tower".

west-town-brad · #**673** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 6:01 PM**

the 78 option really just needs a monorail to put it over the top for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM

Randomguy34 · #**674** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 6:15 PM**

When they said the observation tower's design is based on the St. Charles Airline, it took me a while to figure out they literally the form itself

https://historicbridges.org/bridges/browser/?bridgebrowser=illinois/sbrr/

ih8spires · #**675** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 6:25 PM**

I want to take the river taxi down there and buy a ticket to the top!!! How many years do I have to wait?

ORD2010 · #**676** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 7:40 PM**

Did anyone else catch on their website that the on-site hotel would be Equinox branded? pulling them from their west loop development I assume (though I think the WL fits their brand a little better?) i wonder if that would mean the end of that project or shift to residential or another brand?

ardecila · #**677** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 8:55 PM**

An Equinox hotel would certainly attract a higher class of guest than a Bally's or Hard Rock branded hotel...

generallogan · #**678** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 10:08 PM**

So I wouldn't be surprised if the 78 proposal won, because Lightfoot is a transplant and still does not understand the delicate balance that makes The City that Works, work.

The 78 proposal, while flashy, will totally change the vibe of the riverwalk. The connection from Chinatown to Chicago should be through a true neighborhood/business/hotel district as originally proposed for the 78. Without a very high police presence in and throughout the 78, all along the waterfront, and between the casino and the red line stations, expect smash and grab on steroids and the unsafe feeling people currently have downtown to spread to the river.

You have to expect the worst, don't be fooled by the glossy images that a developer shows you in a presentation. The worst is plopping the Chicago version of O'Shea's/Barbary Coast/the Golden Nugget between Chinatown and the central business district. And, you may say "this is going to be a high-end casino like Bellagio/Caesar's!", but again, give it 10 years, and like all things it will become a low-end casino that acts much like the peep show theaters in the Loop did in the 70s/80s, as a deterrent for development.

Just some of the negatives of the 78 site:

The 24 hour nature of a casino is not conducive to the 78 site. 24/7 works when it's removed from normal Chicagoans living their lives.

Transportation in and out of the site will be a nightmare. Again, Roosevelt road is already a CF at 3pm in the afternoon. Expect that 18 hours a day with this site.

The Wells Wentworth connector from I55 through Chinatown will be a CF. People don't take public transportation (red line) with loads of cash in their pockets. Most people will uber or drive.

Mixing a Casino with DPI, two completely different uses. I'd expect students/workers getting mugged/shot/carjacked as they are peacefully going about their day.

Also, observation towers are for cities that don't already have Sears/Hancock on and on, as we do. Toronto built theirs before they were a skyscraper capital, not after.

So yeah, there may be community pushback, which is justified (I'm pro development, a skyscraper/development nerd, been a member here for 20 years on and off, I'm just realistic and need answers from the developers on the above). The lakefront proposals wall off the nonsense (or potential nonsense), which is a good thing. But again, Lightfoot has made consistently bad decisions over the last couple years, so 78 has a good chance.

OrdoSeclorum · #**679** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 10:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by generallogan

Without a very high police presence in and throughout the 78, all along the waterfront, and between the casino and the red line stations, expect smash and grab on steroids and the unsafe feeling people currently have downtown to spread to the river.

You have to expect the worst, don't be fooled by the glossy images that a developer shows you in a presentation.

The "unsafe feeling" people have downtown will spread? What a load of horse shit. This is the exact same reason NIMBYs killed BRT on Ashland (Too much traffic! And it will also be too easy for people from 'bad' neighborhoods to get to our part of the city!)

It's why suburbs don't want Metra stops to be built in the city. And it's why people in Northbrook sometimes oppose the construction of sidewalks in their neighborhoods... people will just be able to walk past their homes. Then who knows what comes next?

jpIllInoIs · #**680** Posted **Dec 17, 2021, 10:35 PM**

Yes to all of the above GeneralLogan. And I am dubious on decking over Wells/Wentworth. Right now this is a razzle dazzle presentation. I fully concur with your assertion on the traffic conditions on Roosevelt. Ppl do not take public transit to casinos they will uber/lyft of perhaps use shuttle busses. But there will be alot of busses and McMk is built to handle that. And McMk is pretty quiet when there are not conventions in town so it could use the boost.
Meanwhile the Green line and Metra provide service for casino employees. And it is easily accessible from I-55/I/94 and LSD and MLK-Cermak.