Chinatown Updates Discussion

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

City of Vancouver considers banning new towers in Chinatown

New buildings taller than 90 feet — about 8 storeys — would not be allowed under proposed zoning amendments

Justin McElroy · CBC News · Posted: Jun 05, 2018

The newest debate in Vancouver's never-ending affordability crisis isn't whether to approve a tower but to ban them in a neighbourhood altogether.

City council voted to put amendments to rezoning policies in the southern half of Chinatown to a public hearing.

The new rules would cap any future building at 90 feet (27 metres) in height, and will be voted on by council after the hearing, which is yet to be scheduled.

It was just 2011 when council passed a rezoning policy allowing new towers over 90 feet "when public benefits are offered."

But heated protests by many in the Chinatown community, most notably around a new condo at 105 Keefer Pl., since rejected, has caused staff to reconsider what can be built in the area south of Pender Street.

...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...ring-1.4691523

So I suppose anything less than 8 stories would become affordable instantly? Is that the logic that the this backward City is employing? Might as well only allow one-storey structures....I'm sure they would be very affordable. Better still, leave the lots empty for free housing!

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Vin

So I suppose anything less than 8 stories would become affordable instantly? Is that the logic that the this backward City is employing? Might as well only allow one-storey structures....I'm sure they would be very affordable. Better still, leave the lots empty for free housing!

This could work if it was made absolute, but I don't trust the City on that at all.

It would instantly re value the land at highest best use being 8 story - that dramatically affects the land values.

[Feathered Friend]

Contents
Ming Pao > News > Community News
Huaying's edge construction combined house 36 overseas Chinese group opposed
[2018.09.18] published

The Vancouver Chinese Club invited the Vancouver City Government's many affordable housing planners last night to explain to the 36 Huaying Groups the plan to build temporary modular housing on the edge of Chinatown. The city government still failed to convince the relevant groups after the symposium. The Chinese Club said it would represent 36 groups to the city to unanimously oppose the plan.

According to the information provided by the city government, the official address of the combined house is No. 898 Main Street. It is actually located at Union St. in Gore Ave. The city plans to build a three-storey, 52-short-unit combination building on this plot for homeless people and provide support to residents 24 hours a day. The site is located next to the Georgia Viaduct, and some homeless people have camped in the area.

At 6 o'clock in the evening, the Chinese Club invited a number of planners from the city and representatives of 36 Huaying groups to attend a one-hour closed-door briefing. After the event, the chairman of the hall, Yao Chongying, was asked to inquire about the opinions of many representatives. The consensus was that there were many security and safety issues in the combined houses. There are still questions about which groups are responsible for monitoring these houses, so it is finally decided on the Mid-Autumn Festival on September 24. At the festival or before the letter to the city, 36 groups were unanimously opposed to the plan to build a combined house on the edge of Huaying.

https://www.mingpaocanada.com/van/ht...18/vas1h_r.htm

(Translation through Google Translate)
https://translate.google.ca/translat...htm&edit-text=

Interesting that one of the reasons some were opposed to 105 Keefer was that it didn't offer enough non-market and/or shelter rate housing, yet this proposal is now being opposed for offering that very thing.

[Vanville]

Interesting that one of the reasons some were opposed to 105 Keefer was that it didn't offer enough non-market and/or shelter rate housing, yet this proposal is now being opposed for offering that very thing.

Yup. But let's face it who really wants drug addicted zombies in their front yard? If this was specifically say, social housing for retired seniors I don't think there would be much of an issue. That said there are already a number of tents etc. in that green space. And the one modular shelter that I pass by on a continual basis appears to be well kept. I don't know if they will ever be able to clean up the Chinatown/DTES (other than move folks around). Yes the homeless need shelters, but there appears to be an endless supply of folks entering the city & every year it just gets worse. While the shelters themselves are kept relatively clean the surrounding areas take a hit. So I can understand the animosity towards them. It's complicated. The changes in drugs over the years has also played a part. All I know is that I've never seen East Hastings so bad & it has a direct bearing on Chinatown as it's right next door. It has become a massive gathering place for the downtrodden, whether or not they have shelter. It's the huge mess left behind that is probably at the root of the opposition. The trash & needles are overwhelming.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Vanville

It's the huge mess left behind that is probably at the root of the opposition. The trash & needles are overwhelming.

And which the City has steadfastly refused to address. Vancouver has to be the most littered city I've ever seen.

[Vanville]

And which the City has steadfastly refused to address. Vancouver has to be the most littered city I've ever seen.

I have seen worse but I also have never understood the mentality of people who insist on leaving their shite everywhere. Definitely one of my biggest pet peeves.

Case in point (yes I know this is the Chinatown thread, but...) I was just at Habitat Island (AKA Beer Island...wildlife habitat my ass) in False Creek where a group of folks who should have known better (they were not drug addicted zombies) left a large amount of fast food garbage behind. My pic today:

WTF. Seems to me there is a whole generation that really doesn't care much about anything in particular.

Anyhoo since this is the Chinatown thread it seems to me there is way too much neglect going on while building owners await the wrecking ball. I like the old buildings & some are well kept but there are plenty that are conveniently forgotten. It used to be a hell of a lot cleaner.

[Vanville]

The old Kam Gok Yuen Restaurant that burned down at 142 East Pender is looking "old" again:

2009 google streetview image:

My pic Oct.3:

Nobody will ever know the difference. Fits in nicely, is this what it may have looked like back in the day?

[jollyburger]

129 Keefer is for sale $15.25 million

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

129 Keefer is for sale $15.25 million

That seems a bit ambitious for a site with a permit for 32 condos and 5,500 sq. ft. of commercial space (over two floors). If the 25 unit 'Sparrow' a block to the east manages to sell enough units at an average $1,294 per square foot, maybe it might make sense - but those are from $584,900 to over $1,949,90 for 437 to 1,211 square feet. Those look like Downtown prices for Chinatown, so it'll be interesting to see if there are enough buyers at those sorts of prices to get the project built.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That seems a bit ambitious for a site with a permit for 32 condos and 5,500 sq. ft. of commercial space (over two floors). If the 25 unit 'Sparrow' a block to the east manages to sell enough units at an average $1,294 per square foot, maybe it might make sense - but those are from $584,900 to over $1,949,90 for 437 to 1,211 square feet. Those look like Downtown prices for Chinatown, so it'll be interesting to see if there are enough buyers at those sorts of prices to get the project built.

608 Main Street (old Vancity branch on the corner) is a steal at $26 million

Listed on Form's website

https://form.ca/property-search/

DEVELOPMENT
POTENTIAL
Commercial: 5,976 SF
Residential: 29,286 SF
Net Saleable Area: 35,262 SF (7.09 FSR)
Gross Building Area: 51,863 SF (excl. parking)

PARKING 22 stalls + 2 disability stalls accessed via
parking elevator

ASKING PRICE $15,250,000 ($294 PSFB)

[Feathered Friend]

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property...AwMDAwM0xEMA==


https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property...AwMDAwM05QNw==


https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property...AwMDAwM05RNw==


https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property...AwMDAwM0xGVA==

Whether you supported or opposed the downzoning of Chinatown, we doubt many wanted it to become more unaffordable. Sadly, aside from some modest decreases in assessed value along Main Street, other sites, like 105Keefer have seen large gains, some by more than 10%.

https://twitter.com/City_Duo/status/1084242312060780544

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by rofina

This could work if it was made absolute, but I don't trust the City on that at all.

It would instantly re value the land at highest best use being 8 story - that dramatically affects the land values.

Yeah, but the home values will stay up, which is the big problem, not land value.

Originally Posted by Vin

Chinatown is on the decline. Perhaps DTES will spread into Chinatown, officially.

Nah, DTES isn't expanding, it's just moving south, as Railtown gentrifies.

The only thing that might save Chinatown, really, at this point is the new St. Paul's hospital. Chinese people aren't moving into Chinatown anymore, so even if the Hospital helps to provide a sufficient public and private presence and interest in the area, it's never really going to recover.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Yeah, but the home values will stay up, which is the big problem, not land value.

Nah, DTES isn't expanding, it's just moving south, as Railtown gentrifies.

The only thing that might save Chinatown, really, at this point is the new St. Paul's hospital. Chinese people aren't moving into Chinatown anymore, so even if the Hospital helps to provide a sufficient public and private presence and interest in the area, it's never really going to recover.

What makes you think more problems are moving into Chinatown? If anything Chinatown has been upward swing for most of the last decade. Pender St. has always had a bit of spill over of grit, but by and large it has remained as well travelled and vital commercial street.

There are a few empty storefronts, but largely they're the ones that are priced above the rest of the neighbourhood or the ones which are beyond saving and in need of redevelopment. The biggest headwind I can identify is that many of the people who utilised Chinatown intensively are ageing out, and theres a demographic gap behind them that doesn't have the same usage patterns.

As much as Melody Ma talks about gentrification happening, the issue of abandonment has left more empty commercial space than has been uptaken by gentrifiers. Compared to 2010 when I first moved into Strathcona, there are a lot more restaurants and stores which attract outside clientele. Even over the last two years, the selection of stores and restaurants, and services has greatly improved.

The vacant lots and surface parking lots have been the taken the brunt of the redevelopment push.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

What makes you think more problems are moving into Chinatown? If anything Chinatown has been upward swing for most of the last decade. Pender St. has always had a bit of spill over of grit, but by and large it has remained as well travelled and vital commercial street.

There are a few empty storefronts, but largely they're the ones that are priced above the rest of the neighbourhood or the ones which are beyond saving and in need of redevelopment. The biggest headwind I can identify is that many of the people who utilised Chinatown intensively are ageing out, and theres a demographic gap behind them that doesn't have the same usage patterns.

As much as Melody Ma talks about gentrification happening, the issue of abandonment has left more empty commercial space than has been uptaken by gentrifiers. Compared to 2010 when I first moved into Strathcona, there are a lot more restaurants and stores which attract outside clientele. Even over the last two years, the selection of stores and restaurants, and services has greatly improved.

The vacant lots and surface parking lots have been the taken the brunt of the redevelopment push.

I have to disagree with that.

Chinatown used to be a lot more colourful and vibrant. Now it feels like urban decay in many areas. There were hopes of an upswing when the few new developments were happening, but with the Nimbyism going on at the moment, it will only get worse.

[rpvan]

Originally Posted by Vin

I have to disagree with that.

Chinatown used to be a lot more colourful and vibrant. Now it feels like urban decay in many areas. There were hopes of an upswing when the few new developments were happening, but with the Nimbyism going on at the moment, it will only get worse.

Agreed. Chinatown's future is looking pretty bleak IMO. The pedestrian traffic is there but shops are still closing. I really hope something changes soon for the better.

Neighbourhoods always go through transition after a period of time. Everyone would love to see Chinatown regain its historical flavour and stature...however, similar to Punjabi Market in South Vancouver, the future isn't looking too good. Empty storefronts are starting to become commonplace and - if it hasn't already - it could soon create a snowball effect where we see a massive closures.

The issue is the generational difference; most of Chinatown is populated by earlier Chinese immigrants, back when China was mostly rural and poverty stricken. As we know, the majority of new immigrants from China are nothing like this and - for the most part - look down upon Chinatown.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Vin

I have to disagree with that.

Chinatown used to be a lot more colourful and vibrant. Now it feels like urban decay in many areas. There were hopes of an upswing when the few new developments were happening, but with the Nimbyism going on at the moment, it will only get worse.

Like I said, there are vacant store fronts, but 10 years ago there were almost as many and the who area shut down at about 6PM.

They day I moved in May 2010, I walked from my place at Jackson & Union westward and didn't find an open restaurant until I hit the international village. That was at about 7PM. Now if I took that same route, there would probably be 6-8 places that are all pretty decent, and a couple that overpriced hipster places. Substantial improvement regardless.

[jollyburger]

Chinatown was vibrant 40 years ago. Sure most of the good shops are long gone but from a traffic point of view it's more likely up in the past decade than it was before that.

New immigrants aren't the only Chinese that don't go to Chinatown it's most of the second, third, forth generation that don't go there and probably for good reason since they can get most of the stuff in Richmond or wherever.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Like I said, there are vacant store fronts, but 10 years ago there were almost as many and the who area shut down at about 6PM.

They day I moved in May 2010, I walked from my place at Jackson & Union westward and didn't find an open restaurant until I hit the international village. That was at about 7PM. Now if I took that same route, there would probably be 6-8 places that are all pretty decent, and a couple that overpriced hipster places. Substantial improvement regardless.

The route that you said has improved is in fact where the handful of newer developments were at: ie. Union/Main and up till west of Main & south of Keefer.

However the rest of Chinatown has seen better days, and that includes East Pender, East Hastings (east of Main), and Keefer, with Gore Ave. shops at their most deplorable state in Chinatown's history.

Originally Posted by rpvan

Agreed. Chinatown's future is looking pretty bleak IMO. The pedestrian traffic is there but shops are still closing. I really hope something changes soon for the better.

Neighbourhoods always go through transition after a period of time. Everyone would love to see Chinatown regain its historical flavour and stature...however, similar to Punjabi Market in South Vancouver, the future isn't looking too good. Empty storefronts are starting to become commonplace and - if it hasn't already - it could soon create a snowball effect where we see a massive closures.

The issue is the generational difference; most of Chinatown is populated by earlier Chinese immigrants, back when China was mostly rural and poverty stricken. As we know, the majority of new immigrants from China are nothing like this and - for the most part - look down upon Chinatown.

Maybe they should learn from Victoria's Chinatown. Being inclusive is a good thing.

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4302...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4294...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4294...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4284...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4293...7i13312!8i6656

[Vin]

Fan Tan Alley, Victoria:

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4288...7i13312!8i6656

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Vin

I have to disagree with that.

Chinatown used to be a lot more colourful and vibrant. Now it feels like urban decay in many areas. There were hopes of an upswing when the few new developments were happening, but with the Nimbyism going on at the moment, it will only get worse.

Chinatown has lost its purpose. Every neighbourhood has a large variety of chinese shops and restaurants now. New arrivals don't live the way that old school Chinese did, they don't share the same customs/traditions anymore from the immigrants who settled there 100 years ago.

THe city is trying to keep it alive but it serves no purpose anymore. Its in transition now and we are seeing it change now, will take a while to get there.