Highways in Canada

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Andrewjm3D

Prejudice, LOL get off your high horse. If somebody asked me tomorrow to join them for a road trip across the country I'd do it in a heart beat. I Love driving across this country but from Toronto it makes no sense to go all the way through northern Ontario and across the prairies. If you can't see that the U.S has some great scenery to offer then you may be the one who should open their eyes. There are only so many canola fields one can look at with amazement. Just because I don't find long stretches of flat highways exciting doesn't mean I'm prejudice, it's just not my thing.

Distance through the U.S - Toronto - Vancouver - 4372km
Distance through Canada - Toronto - Vancouver - 4365km

The distance are the same but the speed limits are lower here. The trans-Canada through northern Ontario can be very slow and is not divided. A very dangerous stretch of road at night.

If I go to to Toronto I fly. Also the US has great scenery and great highways, but as a previous poster said, I'd rather keep my cash in Canada.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Taking Highway 402 to the US instead of the 401 is pretty much equally as fast.
-Border delays are generally lower

I don't agree that the 402 has less border delays. I can't even think of how many times I have been stuck in a two hour lineup crossing at the Blue Water Bridge. I avoid that crossing like the plague. The best way to get across into Michigan are either of the two St. Clair River ferry's.

I think the 402 has gotten worse since the advent of the GPS. GPS (and Google) always recommends the 402 routing between Southern Ontario and Michigan. The same thing happens at the Queenston-Lewiston Bridge in Niagara. It will have a 1.5 hour delay, while the Peace Bridge down the highway takes only 20 minutes to get across.

[Acajack]

I am not sure that the economic drain caused by Canadians cutting through the U.S. to travel east-west is significant enough to justify the billions that would be required in highway upgrades to make the route across Northern Ontario (in particular) more adapted to safe, modern-day automobile travel.

Lots of Canadians, for a variety of reasons, still use the Canada-only route, as do many tourists from the States and other countries who simply want to say they drove across Canada. It is likely very close to being a wash economically.

[mbeaumont]

Originally Posted by Andrewjm3D

The nothingness is pure rugged beauty though. I love driving through the Canadian Shield. As for congestion, aside from my side trips into Chicago I've never really had an issue with it. And the border crossing I use in Alberta and BC are a breeze. Also I never cross here in the evening on a Friday, the Lewiston Bridge rarely has traffic going stateside any other time.

By using the Coutts/Sunburst border crossing you mentioned earlier, you pretty much lose any time savings you would have gained by cutting through the US. The quickest route going by the US from Calgary and Edmonton is by crossing by Estevan, SK and North Portal, ND

[haljackey]

I still think it would be good for our country to make a freeway along the Trans-Canada. The only part where it may not apply is northern Ontario because traffic volumes just aren't there. Building it just for 'completeness' would be a waste.

While freeway construction is happening, it would also be awesome if they prepared a route nearby for future rail/high speed rail for long distance travelers.

A pipe dream I know, but it could be possible as Canada looks at ways to improve the infrastructure connecting our country together. Perhaps this could be built in 50 years.

[Andrewjm3D]

Originally Posted by mbeaumont

By using the Coutts/Sunburst border crossing you mentioned earlier, you pretty much lose any time savings you would have gained by cutting through the US. The quickest route going by the US from Calgary and Edmonton is by crossing by Estevan, SK and North Portal, ND

I don't mind that wait, it's never really been that bad for me (10-20mins max). To those that say they like to stay in Canada and spend their cash here I understand that. However aside from gas, unless one is stopping and spending a few days along the way not much money is spent. I also don't like to do the same route more then a few times. The U.S just offers more options and places to stop at along the way. I love all the crazy little roadside attractions you see en-route. Not to mention any time you grab a meal in the states it's half the price as back home. I know I'm not alone here as the majority of out of state plates we've encountered along the stretch have been from Quebec, BC, and Ontario (aside from what ever state the one we are in borders with).

Usually I will fly but if I have the time driving is the way to go. I may make the trip this August for my sisters wedding by car and if I do I may consider hwy 16 up through Saskatoon seeing as I haven't tried that way before. It's just so hard not stop by Chicago if I have that option though.

[Andrewjm3D]

Originally Posted by haljackey

While freeway construction is happening, it would also be awesome if they prepared a route nearby for future rail/high speed rail for long distance travelers.

Now that would be awesome.

[bkd]

I never really even thought about using the US interstate system to travel to Ontario from Edmonton/Calgary. We're going cross-country next year and I think we'll try Andrew's way. I thought Highway 2 was a boring 2.5 hr drive but driving through parts of SK and MB make it seem like heaven in comparison.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by haljackey

I still think it would be good for our country to make a freeway along the Trans-Canada. The only part where it may not apply is northern Ontario because traffic volumes just aren't there. Building it just for 'completeness' would be a waste.

.

I do agree that at least one Trans-Canada should be twinned across Northern Ontario - the 17 of course. The 11 doesn't make much sense, especially not west of Cochrane going towards Hearst, Longlac, Geraldton, etc.

[Andrewjm3D]

If you do it, set aside at least a half day to visit Chicago. If you've never been there you'll be glad you made the choice to drive state side. I would suggest doing the river cruise then grabbing a deep dish at Gino's East.

[Andrewjm3D]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I do agree that at least one Trans-Canada should be twinned across Northern Ontario - the 17 of course. The 11 doesn't make much sense, especially not west of Cochrane going towards Hearst, Longlac, Geraldton, etc.

17 would be the best, it also would offer the best vistas. Sadly the cost blasting through all that rock make it a pipe dream right now.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andrewjm3D

17 would be the best, it also would offer the best vistas. Sadly the cost blasting through all that rock make it a pipe dream right now.

I was wondering - isn't the blasting mostly done for the single lane highway that is there anyway? Couldn't they just twin most of the existing road in the current right of way using concrete or steel cable barriers in the centre (when narrow), and just build bypasses around the towns that it passes through?

I know that up there it wasn't built like a super-2 with everything ready-to-go if they wanted to twin it someday, but I would think that much of the tough stuff was done years ago when it was first built, and that in the unpopulated stretched you don't really need a new alignment at all, and you can just build a second road alongside what is there in the existing clearing.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

On Monday I drove from Banff to Regina, 4 lanes all the way 120km/hr. Our TCH is just fine.

Well as most here have pointed out that isn't really the issue when talking about driving from Ontario, which the original post was. Despite the beauty the northern Ontario stretch is very tedious, somewhat dangerous and completely desolate. Not only is there time savings by going through the US but there is much more in the way of infrastructure and food/lodging opportunities.

I've driven the Canadian route from Montreal to Vancouver and I while I'm happy I did it once, I don't think I would ever take the Canadian route again. It just makes so much more sense to drive through the US.

[jmt18325]

To me, it makes very little sense.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I do agree that at least one Trans-Canada should be twinned across Northern Ontario - the 17 of course. The 11 doesn't make much sense, especially not west of Cochrane going towards Hearst, Longlac, Geraldton, etc.

The 11 is a shorter distance if you're going to Ottawa or further west.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

The 11 is a shorter distance if you're going to Ottawa or further west.

Not by much really (30 km?), plus the 17 has more population along it, plus it offers generally better linkages with southern Ontario highways and also the U.S. highway system.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well as most here have pointed out that isn't really the issue when talking about driving from Ontario, which the original post was. Despite the beauty the northern Ontario stretch is very tedious, somewhat dangerous and completely desolate. Not only is there time savings by going through the US but there is much more in the way of infrastructure and food/lodging opportunities.

I've driven the Canadian route from Montreal to Vancouver and I while I'm happy I did it once, I don't think I would ever take the Canadian route again. It just makes so much more sense to drive through the US.

Maybe I should have said "Our Prairie TCH"?

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not by much really (30 km?), plus the 17 has more population along it, plus it offers generally better linkages with southern Ontario highways and also the U.S. highway system.

17 is a nicer drive, bad good if you're going to Toronto. Ottawa makes 11 the better route, and for Montreal, 11, 66, 117, and 15 are better.

[eemy]

There really isn't any room for additional lanes along the existing Highway 17 ROW without a lot of blasting. I wouldn't be surprised if entirely new ROWs weren't considered for such a project.

[Andrewjm3D]

Well if you look at the new section of hwy 11 or the 400(69) that's exactly what they did. They blasted out new section so that the curves are more relaxed and left the original highway as a service road.