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  #661  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2008, 4:42 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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Originally Posted by hamiltonguy View Post
If the CMA numbers are being used (Missi is in the Toronto CMA) then what you're saying starts to make sense until you realize the Hamilton CMA has two VIA stations (Aldershot and Grimsby)
Fair enough, but in all other cases, the train station is in the city that is considered the centre of the region. So all other regions have "their stop" at the centre (usually at least near downtown) but ours are stuck out on either edge.
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Originally Posted by hamiltonguy View Post
I don't think having one line that doesn't pass through Hunter is going to kill public transit in Hamilton. No it isn't ideal, but it's the realistic option
No, it won't kill public transportation. But it's going to make connecting a pain in the ass, and that will turn people off making it easier to claim "failure" after the fact.
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Originally Posted by hamiltonguy View Post
I don't think you quite get things. The scale of what is being talked of is much larger.

RHVP only involved the expropriation of a few houses.
...
I'm not referring only to the RHVP. What about the Linc and what used to be Limeridge Road? What about Toronto's Allen Rd and the proposed Spadina Parkway? Even the QEW and 401? What about York Blvd for crying out loud!? -- my point is that we are willing to give up a hell of a lot for roads and highways, but when it comes to rail, if it can't run on the lines and ROW that exist now, then it's considered "impossible". It's a double standard no matter how you look at it.
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Originally Posted by hamiltonguy View Post
When you've got a million bags neither is Hunter. We had friends come to town who took a cab from Hunter to the Sheraton because it was too far to walk with luggage.
OK, but when you arrive to Hamilton for a conference with one wheeled bag, you'd expect VIA to drop you off pretty much inside (or on the edge) of the central business district. Well I would. Aldershot is a laugh. James North is better, but Hunter is best.

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Originally Posted by hamiltonguy View Post
While I think VIA should come to James North, I don't think Hunter Street could realistically be used, and I think the people arguing for it don't know much about Hamilton Railways.
Well, VIA thinks it can so I'm not the only one!

If we (the public and our representative government) were willing to invest in it, we could make it work. This is not pie in the sky dreaming. I can't believe that you really think it's impossible. Many, many, "more impossibler" feats have been realized in the building of railroads, and most of them happened when it was all done by hand. We are just collectively too lazy, too apathetic, or our priorities are too out of whack for us to bother trying anymore.
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  #662  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2008, 4:45 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
VIA will stop at the new station!
gee! as the song goes, "hate to say i told you so". Just too bad I called her "that guy" ha ha.

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  #663  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2008, 8:16 PM
hamiltonguy hamiltonguy is offline
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Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
Why would ther be a need to double-track Gage? If it were used simply to redirect passenger trains from the CP line to the CN line, it can easily still act as a single spur. Simple signalling can control bidirectional traffic here, seeing as there would not be a significant inrease in traffic along teh spur. Expropriation would really only be necessary at the north end of the spur to allow for bidirectional alignment with the CN line.
Well if you want to put all Niagara bound VIA trains through it, with also GO service expanded to Niagara Region it will be very busy (i'm assuming if this route is used they'd double track the tunnel and run all Lakeshore Trains through Hamilton).

The line is also the only way for CP to access the industries in the North End, and would not accept a deal which would restrict their access to line at any time they see fit.

I also think you will find the way North American Signalling is done a single track can be very bothersome (see Hunter Tunnel)
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  #664  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2008, 8:31 PM
hamiltonguy hamiltonguy is offline
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Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
Fair enough, but in all other cases, the train station is in the city that is considered the centre of the region. So all other regions have "their stop" at the centre (usually at least near downtown) but ours are stuck out on either edge.
Fair enough (although Ottawa's Station is fairly far out if I remember), as I said i believe VIA should come downtown, I just thought I'd make sure the facts were straight.


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I'm not referring only to the RHVP. What about the Linc and what used to be Limeridge Road? What about Toronto's Allen Rd and the proposed Spadina Parkway? Even the QEW and 401? What about York Blvd for crying out loud!? -- my point is that we are willing to give up a hell of a lot for roads and highways, but when it comes to rail, if it can't run on the lines and ROW that exist now, then it's considered "impossible". It's a double standard no matter how you look at it.
Fair enough but the most massive expropriations occurred before it came more taboo to do it.

And people living near a new road also seem to see more direct benefit from a road (most likely people living near it will drive it) even if the indirect benefits of rail are much greater.

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Well, VIA thinks it can so I'm not the only one!
You're probably more credible than VIA, seeing how they couldn't get their story straight on this issue, and that they'd prefer an East End station.

I also question their logic for other reasons. A few years ago they bought second hand cars from Europe without making sure they fit North American Safety requirements. Guess what they didn't meet once we got them over here? Had to spend a fortune fixing them up.

SO yeah, I have little faith in what VIA says (because of their reputation for stupidity), and I'd rather listen to mostly anyone else but them.

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If we (the public and our representative government) were willing to invest in it, we could make it work. This is not pie in the sky dreaming. I can't believe that you really think it's impossible. Many, many, "more impossibler" feats have been realized in the building of railroads, and most of them happened when it was all done by hand. We are just collectively too lazy, too apathetic, or our priorities are too out of whack for us to bother trying anymore.
I don't think it's impossible in the sense that it can't physically happen, I just mean it won't.

This is the sort of project that would cost a fortune more than the other option which is almost as good, and would also likely cost the Mayor and a few councilors their jobs.

If we had loads of money we'd have a giant waterfront development with commuter trains specifically targetting the Waterfront Station, with lines through both Welland and St. Kitts stopping at Hunter Street, as well as all day Go service there.
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  #665  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2008, 10:09 PM
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I too would very much like to keep the TH&B station on Hunter St as Hamilton's intercity rail station, mostly because its right downtown. But we have to face a very expensive reality.

If the TH&B station is to handle GO, VIA, and maybe even a Hamilton centred commuter network, then we need to connect the station with the CN main line that runs along the lakeshore in both directions.

To the west of Hunter St station this connection has been partially made. I say partially because there is a 700m long single track tunnel between the station and the CN line. The Hunter St tunnel must be double tracked in order to allow for the easy movement of passenger trains. This project will be expensive, depending on soil conditions, method of construction, location of underground utilities, and building foundations of the structures along Hunter St.

To the east of the station, things are worse. Currently, there is no direct connection to the CN main line. There is a CP spur that runs north from Kinnear yard alongside Gage, but this is a single track, low speed line with multiple grade crossings, and it does not connect with the CN line, but passes underneath it.

This spur track will have to be upgraded significantly. Because of the number of grade crossings, the line will have to be either elevated or placed in a tunnel, and in order to deal with future traffic levels, it would be best if it was double tracked now.

If we elevate the line, we're going to need a lot of land. In order to build the connection between the spur and the main line, many properties to the northwest of Barton and Ottawa will need to be leveled. Looking at Google, I would guess that Rosslyn Ave N would be cut back to Dalkeith Ave, and all of the homes on Rosslyn north of Dalkeith, and all of the homes on the west end of Dalhousie Ave would be bulldozed, either because the new rail line would be on those properties, or that the homes would be cut off from the rest of the city by the tracks (Dalhousie would end at the rail line)

Just north of Barton, there is vacant land along the west side of the spur, but not so south of Barton. Here we have a choice. Either expropriate two industrial sites on the west side of the spur, or close Belmont Ave and demolish several homes on Belmont north of Campbell. Between Campbell and Cannon there is a school on the east side of the spur, and it may be possible to expropriate a strip of land rather than the entire property.

It is between Cannon and King where the most expropriations must occur, as the spur has tightly packed houses on both sides. South of King things improve, as there is a strip of land that follows the spur for most of the remaining distance, although some properties will be needed.

If we decide to tunnel the line, then options improve. We may want to temporarily close the south end of Gage park for construction, and build a long curve under Gage park and then head northwards underneath Glendale, Belview or Belmont, and then come up to the surface north of Barton. Homes will probably be bulldozed along Dalhousie in this scenario as well.

In either case, the costs will be huge.

So it all boils down to this: Hunter St Station, which is better in terms of location but will cost huge amounts of money to get the tracks to the west and east of the station into shape, or James St North, which will cost less than 10 Million, but is far from downtown.
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  #666  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2008, 10:28 PM
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I actually think an underground subway connection between LIUNA and TH&B would be a more likely endeavor than twinning the CP tunnel and constructing the TH&B line back to the CN in East Hamilton. It is just not worth all of that infrastructure and investment to have the train station 2km away. A dedicated rapid transit link between the two stations is the better option.

Having two rail stations in Hamilton is not a bad thing at all. The commuter population that works in the western GTA is growing. These two stations will be major drivers in attracting these people to Downtown Hamilton residences. It will be a major marketing feature for Hamilton real estate, ie. walking distance from GO. There will be Bayfront GO and Downtown GO.
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  #667  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit View Post
A dedicated rapid transit link between the two stations is the better option.
Been saying this for a long long time. Perhaps once the 18 new articulated buses arrive some of those buses could be placed along Hughson St to connect the two stations.
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  #668  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2008, 11:33 PM
hamiltonguy hamiltonguy is offline
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Been saying this for a long long time. Perhaps once the 18 new articulated buses arrive some of those buses could be placed along Hughson St to connect the two stations.
The A-Line is supposed to go all the Way to the Waterfront via. James. Wouldn't it be stopping at both stations then?

It'll be great when it's finally LRT.
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  #669  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 1:49 AM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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hey guys...get ready to send emails, write letters and attend public meetings.
The city is now embarking on the planning process that will see a decision made in JUNE OF THIS YEAR whether or not to use LRT or BRT.
Staff are preparing a report for council and the tentative date for that report to be presented to council is April 23. There will be public information centres to follow.
THIS IS OUR CHANCE. Those of you with a passion to see LRT come to Hamilton need to buckle up and get ready to educate, promote and encourage councilors, citizens and the local media over the next 4 months.
Thanks to some great work by new staffers in city hall and a couple of councillors this has been pushed to the top of the agenda this year.
Metrolinx is also going with their planning process over the next 9 months that will determine where they recommend provincial budget money flow next year.
If all goes well, we COULD see an LRT announcement at the provincial budget a year from now.
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  #670  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 2:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hamiltonguy View Post
The A-Line is supposed to go all the Way to the Waterfront via. James. Wouldn't it be stopping at both stations then?

It'll be great when it's finally LRT.
Think the A-Line will start out as downtown to Airport but perhaps they will go from waterfront to Airport.

It'll be good because in the near future you'll be able to use te Presto card for HSR and GO Transit, just one card for everything.
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  #671  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
hey guys...get ready to send emails, write letters and attend public meetings.
The city is now embarking on the planning process that will see a decision made in JUNE OF THIS YEAR whether or not to use LRT or BRT.
Staff are preparing a report for council and the tentative date for that report to be presented to council is April 23. There will be public information centres to follow.
THIS IS OUR CHANCE. Those of you with a passion to see LRT come to Hamilton need to buckle up and get ready to educate, promote and encourage councilors, citizens and the local media over the next 4 months.
Oh I will be doing my part that's for sure! No doubt. I'll be happy with LRT for West/East rapid transit corridor and BRT for North/South rapid transit corridor.
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  #672  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 2:13 AM
JT Jacobs JT Jacobs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
hey guys...get ready to send emails, write letters and attend public meetings.
The city is now embarking on the planning process that will see a decision made in JUNE OF THIS YEAR whether or not to use LRT or BRT.
Staff are preparing a report for council and the tentative date for that report to be presented to council is April 23. There will be public information centres to follow.
THIS IS OUR CHANCE. Those of you with a passion to see LRT come to Hamilton need to buckle up and get ready to educate, promote and encourage councilors, citizens and the local media over the next 4 months.
Thanks to some great work by new staffers in city hall and a couple of councillors this has been pushed to the top of the agenda this year.
Metrolinx is also going with their planning process over the next 9 months that will determine where they recommend provincial budget money flow next year.
If all goes well, we COULD see an LRT announcement at the provincial budget a year from now.
This is spectacular and important news--probably the most crucial item for Hamilton's renewal.

When do you recommend that we should begin emailing councilors, right away or closer to the end of April?

By the way, a dedicated James ST LRT line would be amazing. I also agree that two restored downtown rail stations is certainly a plus for Hamilton.
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  #673  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 2:23 AM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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Based on my meeting today, I would suggest that you email councillors starting later in April. Some letters to Spec and op-eds to Spec would also be helpful the week of April 23rd. Most councillors have no idea about LRT. This will be a new item for them.
We REALLY need to emphasize one point more than any other - economic development!!! It happens in droves along LRT lines. It's never happened along a bus route that I can see. this is the city's main focus right now - EcDev. And for good reason.
Don't get into Red Hill, airport or other nonsense. Talk positive, talk about the future, talk about EcDev and a new image for our city. These things will sell council without being divisive.
Again, I can't reveal my sources, but I was given this advice and much other good advice and how to approach council as well as the public via the Spec.
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  #674  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 2:59 AM
JT Jacobs JT Jacobs is offline
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Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
Based on my meeting today, I would suggest that you email councillors starting later in April. Some letters to Spec and op-eds to Spec would also be helpful the week of April 23rd. Most councillors have no idea about LRT. This will be a new item for them.
We REALLY need to emphasize one point more than any other - economic development!!! It happens in droves along LRT lines. It's never happened along a bus route that I can see. this is the city's main focus right now - EcDev. And for good reason.
Don't get into Red Hill, airport or other nonsense. Talk positive, talk about the future, talk about EcDev and a new image for our city. These things will sell council without being divisive.
Again, I can't reveal my sources, but I was given this advice and much other good advice and how to approach council as well as the public via the Spec.
Good advice--thanks! I wrote VIA and MEC both this week, and while no individual letter necessarily does anything, many concerned and articulate letters certainly do become persuasive. Let's do this!
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  #675  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 3:37 AM
hamiltonguy hamiltonguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
hey guys...get ready to send emails, write letters and attend public meetings.
The city is now embarking on the planning process that will see a decision made in JUNE OF THIS YEAR whether or not to use LRT or BRT.
Staff are preparing a report for council and the tentative date for that report to be presented to council is April 23. There will be public information centres to follow.
THIS IS OUR CHANCE. Those of you with a passion to see LRT come to Hamilton need to buckle up and get ready to educate, promote and encourage councilors, citizens and the local media over the next 4 months.
Thanks to some great work by new staffers in city hall and a couple of councillors this has been pushed to the top of the agenda this year.
Metrolinx is also going with their planning process over the next 9 months that will determine where they recommend provincial budget money flow next year.
If all goes well, we COULD see an LRT announcement at the provincial budget a year from now.

Awesome. I have some friends that my be interested see if I can get them to help too.
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  #676  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 2:26 PM
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i'm shocked that it's even being discussed. you're right, the potential ROI must be emphasized in any conversation with the city. that's what'll sell this project, not the fact that it's a great, 'eco-friendly' people mover.
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  #677  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 2:36 PM
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I'll certainly be sending off an e-mail in a couple of weeks to Sam Merulla about LRT, bringing up how I'm a regular user of the B-Line Express route and how it could benefit from higher order transit in the form of light rail. Any public informational sessions I will also try to attend.
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  #678  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2008, 5:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit View Post
A dedicated rapid transit link between the two stations is the better option.
a really cool way to connect the two stations is by underground moving walkway. sure, you could get the same result using buses, etc., but it's a neat idea. in that scenario walking the 1.4 km from station to station might only take 5 minutes...and many millions to build, of course.

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  #679  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2008, 6:30 AM
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Re: Moving Sidewalk? Gah. How about auto-taxis?

An underground moving sidwalk between Barton and Hunter would cost much more than extending the TH&B line to the North-East I reckon.

Instead, I would like to see Hamilton deploy an automated-taxi system like Ultra or Vectus. You have to see the videos to believe them. I think the technology is finally here!

Long-term thinking of course. Lets get the A-Line and B-Line LRTs built first!
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  #680  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2008, 11:18 AM
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Bike racks on buses will make it easier to leave the car at home

The Hamilton Spectator
(Apr 4, 2008)

It's going to get a lot easier to get around Hamilton with a bike, thanks to $191,000 from the Metrolinx BikeLinx program.

The money will be used to enhance the links between active transportation and public transit, specifically funding for bike racks on Hamilton Street Railway buses, secure parking for bikes at strategic spots near major HSR and inter- regional transit facilities such as GO Transit stops.

Hamilton Mayor Fred Eisenberger, a member of the board of Metrolinx, formerly known as the Greater Toronto Transit Authority, says the money will encourage cycling as an alternative mode of transportation.

The city is hoping the money will help increase the percentage of commuting trips by walking or cycling to 15 per cent from 5 per cent.

Daryl Bender, the city's alternative transportation manager, says secure parking and locking facilities for bicycles will help marry cycling infrastructure with public transit.
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