Sacramento: 301 Capitol Mall: A New Plan for The Towers Site

[mechanico]

Originally Posted by Phillip

Do you consider Portland's Pearl District a failure? Over two dozen new condo and apartment towers of various heights have gone up and sold out in the Pearl over the last decade, bringing more than 10,000 new residents to Downtown Portland. And the tallest condo in the Pearl is 19 stories!! Luxury doesn't require extreme altitude. Penthouses in the most desired Pearl buildings are selling for well over a million.

May Sacramento never end up like Portland.I've been to downtown Portland a few times in the past couple of years and couldn't wait to leave. It's a classic example of what happens when you start developement without removing the blight first. In DT Portland you are accosted on every corner by a Heiroin addict looking for a hand out. With the crystal meth problem in the Central Valley the same thing can happen if the city doesn't take preventative measures. Homelessness is becoming a major problem in this area, developement won't fix that. In Portland the problem accelerated with the redevelopement. If the city wants to spend money to improve downtown Sac, I don't think furnishings for a luxury hotel is an efficient use of that money.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by mechanico

May Sacramento never end up like Portland.I've been to downtown Portland a few times in the past couple of years and couldn't wait to leave. It's a classic example of what happens when you start developement without removing the blight first. In DT Portland you are accosted on every corner by a Heiroin addict looking for a hand out. With the crystal meth problem in the Central Valley the same thing can happen if the city doesn't take preventative measures. Homelessness is becoming a major problem in this area, developement won't fix that. In Portland the problem accelerated with the redevelopement. If the city wants to spend money to improve downtown Sac, I don't think furnishings for a luxury hotel is an efficient use of that money.

You're the first person(out of many) who has not liked Portland! So, it seems to me that you're the odd one out. Most cities would totally want for their city to be like Portland. I guess all I can say for the experience you had was that no city is completely perfect!

[colemonkee]

Originally Posted by mechanico

May Sacramento never end up like Portland. I've been to downtown Portland a few times in the past couple of years and couldn't wait to leave. It's a classic example of what happens when you start developement without removing the blight first. In DT Portland you are accosted on every corner by a Heiroin addict looking for a hand out.

Pshhhh. Do yourself a favor and stay out of downtown LA, then. Or most urban centers, for that matter. Portland may have one of the cleanest downtowns in the nation, but that still doesn't mean you won't run into a little urban grit.

[mechanico]

Portland was dubbed "the black tar heroin capitol of the west coast" by msnbc. Dateline did an expose on the extreme concentration of young heroin addicts. It's well beyond "urban grit" as the downtown area has thousands of street kids looking for their next fix. The streets are lined with these kids and it is sickening. I'm surprised to see this situation defended. It is not a typical urban center and I hope neuhickman79 and colemonkee that you are not O.K. with the same thing happening to DT Sac.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by mechanico

Portland was dubbed "the black tar heroin capitol of the west coast" by msnbc. Dateline did an expose on the extreme concentration of young heroin addicts. It's well beyond "urban grit" as the downtown area has thousands of street kids looking for their next fix. The streets are lined with these kids and it is sickening. I'm surprised to see this situation defended. It is not a typical urban center and I hope neuhickman79 and colemonkee that you are not O.K. with the same thing happening to DT Sac.

Like I said...no city is perfect! If that is their only problem downtown, then that is sad. But, the urban model of Portland is one that is used around the country. How can you discount a whole downtown based on ONE problem. Do you never go to San Francisco because there are a lot of homeless people there?

[mechanico]

Originally Posted by neuhickman79

Like I said...no city is perfect! If that is their only problem downtown, then that is sad. But, the urban model of Portland is one that is used around the country. How can you discount a whole downtown based on ONE problem. Do you never go to San Francisco because there are a lot of homeless people there?

You're right it's just a little heroin and what's the harm in a little heroin . The SF homeless are pleasant compared to the Portland junkies. I'd say the revitalization failed on many levels I'd hate to see the same thing happen to Sac. With the American River Parkway and the Crystal Meth problem of the Valley I'm worried Sacramento could become the next Portland in terms of Junkie street kids.Cleaning up a Downtown requires more than the addition of a few nice buildings or restaurants. I liked Guiliani's approach.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by mechanico

You're right it's just a little heroin and what's the harm in a little heroin . The SF homeless are pleasant compared to the Portland junkies. I'd say the revitalization failed on many levels I'd hate to see the same thing happen to Sac. With the American River Parkway and the Crystal Meth problem of the Valley I'm worried Sacramento could become the next Portland in terms of Junkie street kids.Cleaning up a Downtown requires more than the addition of a few nice buildings or restaurants. I liked Guiliani's approach.

those damn junkie street kids...always out to ruin everything!!

[mechanico]

Originally Posted by neuhickman79

those damn junkie street kids...always out to ruin everything!!

I guess it sounds silly untill you've actually seen it. Of course, you've been to Portland recently and didn't share my experience. Maybe it's just me. Tell us about your Portland experience.

[colemonkee]

Originally Posted by mechanico

Portland was dubbed "the black tar heroin capitol of the west coast" by msnbc. Dateline did an expose on the extreme concentration of young heroin addicts. It's well beyond "urban grit" as the downtown area has thousands of street kids looking for their next fix. The streets are lined with these kids and it is sickening. I'm surprised to see this situation defended. It is not a typical urban center and I hope neuhickman79 and colemonkee that you are not O.K. with the same thing happening to DT Sac.

Huh, the last 8 times I was in downtown Portland over the last two years, I was never approached once by a homeless person, or offered heroin. Guess I was in some of the cleaner parts. Of course, just because Dateline says its so doesn't make it so. Portland - despite any reported teenage black tar herion problem - is relatively clean by downtown standards.

Of course, I don't support the sale of or propogation of heroin in Portland, Sacramento or anywhere else. I'm merely challenging the implied statement that Portland's gentrification failed or caused a drug/homeless problem downtown. The main mission for the homeless has always been at the base of the Burnside Bridge, so they've always been there - well before developers started gentrifying the Pearl.

[mechanico]

[colemonkee]Huh, the last 8 times I was in downtown Portland over the last two years, I was never approached once by a homeless person, or offered heroin. Guess I was in some of the cleaner parts. Of course, just because Dateline says its so doesn't make it so. Portland - despite any reported teenage black tar herion problem - is relatively clean by downtown standards.

Yeah You stayed in downtown Portland 8 times in the last 3 years and you were not approached by a single heroin addicted street kid? As for the cleaner part of town I stayed in 4-5 star hotels every visit. The worst hotel I stayed in was the Hilton.For the record I was never offered heroin either. I was approached by countless homeless heroin addicts though, in the nice areas of all places. Now that I Know who I'm arguing with I'm ready to move on.

[bennywah]

^
Ok guys please move on, the problem of the homeless is everywhere, from ghettos in the city to bums who make it to La Jolla, which is an extremely upscale area and it still has to deal with that problem, bringing in high end housing doesn't contribute to homelessness, it only pushes out moderate income families to other parts of the city.

If planning is done right than a mix of housing as is proposed in Downtown Sac is being done then all parts of the market can be reached creating a vibrant neighborhood of owners who take pride in the area they live and create the urban core of vibrancy one wants, like they say if you build it they will come, and such will happen, and thats what helps clean up an area, bring in restruants ans shops, and makes a place a neighborhood!!

End rant!!

[Trojan]

That's what makes a downtown a downtown.... of course in the suburbs you won't find heroin addicts on the corners of multi lane avenue intersections.. but downtown is supposed to be filled with MANY different people... the rich, and the poor. Urbanization doesn't mean every square inch of cement is clean or every store is leasing to some luxury retailer...

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by Trojan

That's what makes a downtown a downtown.... of course in the suburbs you won't find heroin addicts on the corners of multi lane avenue intersections.. but downtown is supposed to be filled with MANY different people... the rich, and the poor. Urbanization doesn't mean every square inch of cement is clean or every store is leasing to some luxury retailer...

Of course those heroin/cocaine/meth addicts in the suburbs just do it inside their homes!

[mechanico]

7/29/06

[enigma99a]Went by the sales office today.. The official figure is 480 sold. 59.3% !

9/9/06

Condo high-rise seeks subsidy
Proposed $11 million from city would help furnish posh hotel.
By Mary Lynne Vellinga - Bee Staff Writer

So far, Saca said, he has collected non-refundable deposits on about 400 units at prices ranging from the high $300,000s to $4 million.

"We are really close to hitting the number we need for our lender," he said. "It's not a concern for us now."

A few months ago, Saca began negotiating with the city for a subsidy, something he said he had previously viewed as "a last resort."

"We absolutely need it," he said. "What's happened is our construction costs for the project have gone up well over $100 million from last year."

It's not Saca I'm worried about but his accountant?

[Phillip]

Originally Posted by mechanico

May Sacramento never end up like Portland.I've been to downtown Portland a few times in the past couple of years and couldn't wait to leave. It's a classic example of what happens when you start developement without removing the blight first.

Yes, there are a lot of drug addicts and homeless around Portland and they're very evident and assertive in certain areas of Downtown. The Pearl is the area of Downtown where you'll see the fewest panhandlers and crazies though. Most of them seem to have a sense of boundary and know where not to go. They're always outside Meier and Frank, for example, but not outside Nordstrom's a block away.

The Pearl was never intended to solve or mitigate Portland's homeless problem. The warehouse district that evolved into the Pearl wasn't an area where homeless people congregated. Panhandlers avoided the area because nobody was there to panhandle. Mostly it was abandoned or underutilized industrial and warehouse.

The areas of Downtown Portland where you see most panhandlers and trouble today---Chinatown, Lower Burnside, Stark Street, the 5th and 6th Avenue bus malls---are the same areas where they were hanging out 20 years ago, before the Pearl was born.

The Pearl hasn't solved Portland's drug or homeless problems, but it has attracted thousands of working and retired people, and some idle rich, from the suburbs back to denser living in the Downtown core. In that sense Portland is a model for Sacramento.

[foxmtbr]

^ Excellent point.

[innov8]

You know what... now that mechanico as pulled back the
curtian to expose the Towers and show what shaky ground
that this whole deal is on, I'm now going to jump into his
camp and state that I doubt they will even have enough
money to pour the 15 feet of concrete for the foundation.

Phillip has even said these towers are to large and should
have started at 14 or 20 stories instead.

Will be lucky to see the pile driver actually finish putting in the
2400 piles. I think I see the light now... hey Majin, wanna hang out

[mechanico]

Originally Posted by innov8

You know what... now that mechanico as pulled back the
curtian to expose the Towers and show what shaky ground
that this whole deal is on, I'm now going to jump into his
camp and state that I doubt they will even have enough
money to pour the 15 feet of concrete for the foundation.

Phillip has even said these towers are to large and should
have started at 14 or 20 stories instead.

Will be lucky to see the pile driver actually finish putting in the
2400 piles. I think I see the light now... hey Majin, wanna hang out

Critical thinking is not encouraged here.

[innov8]

Critically think all you want... I just find it amusing how
this cycle of doubt comes around about every three months.

Anyway... they have started pile driving into the night again

[mechanico]

Originally Posted by innov8

Critically think all you want...

Now that is funny!