The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[SJTOKO]

Question for the train nerds out there. There's something about the old wooden railway ties that bother me. They look cheap and weathered. Are they just as reliable as concrete ties or are they out of date?

[Innsertnamehere]

They are cheaper than concrete but don't last as long. In terms of safety the two are interchangeable until you start going really fast (250km/h+).

It all depends on cost benefit of the two materials in the location they are used. Canada has plenty of cheap wood, while Europe doesn't have nearby endless forests to cut down so wood costs are higher and it's usually cheaper to use concrete.

You see the same thing with hydro poles too, areas with no easy access to wood use concrete instead of wood.

[Innsertnamehere]

Also, source on the Michigan left? Wasn't aware those were planned, I don't believe there are any of those in the GTA yet.

[goodthings]

All eyes on Brampton tomorrow as they are set to reject the Hurontario-Main LRT through Downtown Brampton, effectively ending the line at Shoppers World (Steeles Avenue).

As Metro Vancouver rejects transit improvements, so will Brampton.

Brampton poised to reject LRT funding from Ontario government

As cities all over North America clamour for transit, Brampton, Ont., appears poised to reject the province’s offer to pay for a $386-million light rail line.

With a pivotal council debate scheduled for late Wednesday, advocates of the line warn that rejecting the offer could set transit in the city back a decade. But critics worry about harming downtown Brampton, and argue there are better places to build a rail project.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toro...from-ontario-government/article25347913/

Brampton LRT vote will break record for public participation

Brampton City Council decides Wednesday on the future of a LRT in the city. More than 130 residents have signed up to address council

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/07/...eak-record-for-public-participation.html

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by goodthings

All eyes on Brampton tomorrow as they are set to reject the Hurontario-Main LRT through Downtown Brampton, effectively ending the line at Shoppers World (Steeles Avenue).

As Metro Vancouver rejects transit improvements, so will Brampton.

I am of the opinion that if suburbanites want to reject transit improvements, then we should just honour their request and pull transit investment from those areas and rededicate them to urban areas that actually want transit improvements.

I'm sick and tired of vanity transit projects in the suburbs while inner city bus and streetcar routes are bursting to the seams. Now that I know that the suburbanites don't even want them, all the better for us.

Transit is the future. Rejecting transit service in 2015 is like rejecting telephone service in 1915. If suburbanites want to consign their future to low income irrelevance (because people with means nowadays don't want to live in suburban areas poorly served by transit), then they can make their bed and lie in it.

[Innsertnamehere]

problem is that it screws with growth. Brampton is growing extremely fast and to leave that large of a population poorly serviced largely fails the intent of the previous 10 years of planning in the GTA. Brampton already struggles with intensification far more than any other GTA municipality, dropping the LRT would be rejecting its only chance at "redemption".

Besides, Downtown Brampton has a lot of potential and not bringing in the LRT will simply not do it any good. The current setup clearly isn't working, storefronts are empty and unused, but yet everyone is afraid to try anything to fix it.

If brampton were to reject it, I would probably look to the province to force it down their throats. that regional connection to the Kitchener GO line is too key as is the importance of reaching the downtown.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

problem is that it screws with growth. Brampton is growing extremely fast and to leave that large of a population poorly serviced largely fails the intent of the previous 10 years of planning in the GTA. Brampton already struggles with intensification far more than any other GTA municipality, dropping the LRT would be rejecting its only chance at "redemption".

Besides, Downtown Brampton has a lot of potential and not bringing in the LRT will simply not do it any good. The current setup clearly isn't working, storefronts are empty and unused, but yet everyone is afraid to try anything to fix it.

Downtown Brampton's potential is moot if their "leaders" act like a bunch of country bumpkins. They can let it stagnate into Brantford II for all I care. And I give as much of a toss if Brampton chokes in its own traffic. They have been planning poorly for years, and there's no reason that we should swoop in and redeem their bad practices.

If brampton were to reject it, I would probably look to the province to force it down their throats. that regional connection to the Kitchener GO line is too key as is the importance of reaching the downtown.

That is the only reason I see for building the LRT line. But even then, I think that the regional connectivity is a bit overplayed. I really don't think there will be a lot of people getting off the GO train from points west and then traveling south on Hurontario. The non-DT Brampton demand from transferring GO train passengers can probably be served by dedicated GO bus services to Square One for the foreseeable future.

[Innsertnamehere]

Regional connections are important, but there is also a large bus hub at Brampton GO that the LRT will be able to plug into. Its more than just the GO train at the train station. people aren't going to want to have to take the bus to downtown brampton, transfer to ZUM, then transfer to the LRT again at Shoppers World.

As for the "f*ck em" attitude, to a certain extent its true. But think rationally, do you really want to send 500,000+ people into permanent traffic and quality of life nightmares because of 6 country bumpkin councillors? You end up with 500,000 people stuck in their cars, who still need to get to other parts of the GTA. you end up with still having to cater to the car in places like Mississauga to get these people to work and back every day.

The GTA acts as a single job market, its not like a decision in Brampton won't have ripple effects throughout the region.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Regional connections are important, but there is also a large bus hub at Brampton GO that the LRT will be able to plug into. Its more than just the GO train at the train station. people aren't going to want to have to take the bus to downtown brampton, transfer to ZUM, then transfer to the LRT again at Shoppers World.

I agree. So to remedy this, and still stick a middle finger to Brampton, I suggest the province make the area around Steeles and Hurontario a designated growth centre and strip downtown Brampton of this status. Then I suggest moving Metrolinx-funded operations closer to there. So, no more GO bus services into downtown Brampton. From now on, regional buses go to Mount Pleasant or Bramalea. Kill any ideas of extending RER service past Bramalea for the foreseeable future. Seriously, if Brampton councillors want to play hardball, the province shouldn't be afraid to be assertive.

As for the "f*ck em" attitude, to a certain extent its true. But think rationally, do you really want to send 500,000+ people into permanent traffic and quality of life nightmares because of 6 country bumpkin councillors?

Yes. Yes I do. We live in a representative democracy, for better or for worse, and people have to realize that their elected representatives can't get away with short-sightedness. If the people of Brampton can't get off their butts to vote them out, then they deserve what they get.

You end up with 500,000 people stuck in their cars, who still need to get to other parts of the GTA. you end up with still having to cater to the car in places like Mississauga to get these people to work and back every day.

The GTA acts as a single job market, its not like a decision in Brampton won't have ripple effects throughout the region.

The secret then is to transfer growth potential out of Brampton as much as possible and to other municipalities. Brampton's position in the GTA's labour market will probably not look so hot if you can't even get there properly. Basically, if Brampton is going to stick it to the province, I think the province should do everything in its power to stick it back to Brampton. Provinces have this power! Mike Harris wasn't afraid to use it against Toronto, and I suggest that the Wynne Liberals not be afraid to use it against municipalities that defy their larger objectives.

[Innsertnamehere]

or instead of retracting all provincial infrastructure funding from Brampton to spite them, they could just ram it down their throats as I suggested and move on.

[1overcosc]

The true value of all the projects the government is building: GO RER, the LRTs, etc. comes from the overall connectivity throughout the entire urban region, that is created. Eliminating one piece from the puzzle causes the whole thing to lose potential.

No LRT into DT Brampton diminishes the value of the Hurontario-Main LRT as a whole (denying it a northern transfer to a GO RER line) which negatively affects Mississauga in particular its urban growth node. It diminishes the value of the Kitchener RER line by resulting in places like Kitchener, Guelph, and Georgetown no longer having an efficient connection into Mississauga. And so on...

Really, this speaks to the critical need to make Metrolinx solely responsible for all transit in the region thus denying local municipalities the ability to muck things up like this.

[DizzyEdge]

Looks like this was never posted

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-gives-up-on-connect-card-wants-5m-back-1.3133873

Calgary gives up on Connect card, wants $5M back

The city wants $5 million back after scrapping a plan to offer electronic fares for public transit riders.

The Connect card has been under development for several years now and has been plagued with problems.

Transit director Doug Morgan says they don't know why Schneider Electric can design and operate similar systems in other cities, but can't get its technology to work in Calgary.
"That's the million dollar question," he said."We don't understand. Certainly when we re-engaged them, they were certain they could deliver."

The saga began in 2010 when a Spanish company called Telvent, now owned by Schneider Electric, was chosen to develop the system through a bidding process.

The plan was to give Calgarians the convenience of a tap-and-go fare card that transit users enjoy in many other cities.

Software problems

Calgary had hundreds of people testing the card back in 2012, but there were software problems. Later that year, the city cancelled the contract and card readers were removed from every bus and C-Train platform.

But staff were convinced the company had fixed the problems and decided to give it another go in 2013, rather than spend more money by going with somebody else.

The Connect card readers were re-installed and testing resumed last September with plans for the card to go into service by the end of the year. It didn't happen.

City council was briefed on the situation Monday in a closed-door session. The decision to scrap the project was announced Tuesday.

Read more
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-gives-up-on-connect-card-wants-5m-back-1.3133873

[1overcosc]

That makes me curious, how many cities have transit smart cards? To my knowledge, Ottawa, Gatineau, Hamilton, Kingston, and Montreal all use them, while Toronto and Kitchener-Waterloo are rolling them out.

Ottawa, Hamilton, and Toronto use the Presto card system that was developed by the Ontario government. In Toronto, Presto cards are fully available for GO and all the suburban agencies. In the city proper, only major subway stations and some streetcars have them; they're going to be finished rolling it all out (all stations, legacy streetcars, and buses) in the next year and a half. Because it's the same technology, cards can be freely moved between those cities; it's actually really convenient for an Ottawan/Torontonian.. you can take the train or fly to the other city and use your own transit card when you get there.

Kingston adopted its own technology called "MyCard"; it chose smart cards before the Ontario government made Presto (it started developing the system in 2006, completed in 2008). MyCard is kinda shitty compared to Presto. Only the monthly pass products can be renewed online, pay-per-use has to be loaded up in person. I hope Kingston migrates to Presto in the future, not only to take advantage of Presto's better feature set but also for the interchangeability with Ottawa and Toronto.

[MalcolmTucker]

Presto still requires 24 hours to update your card balance online, or 12 hours if you're in Ottawa.

[goodthings]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Basically, if Brampton is going to stick it to the province, I think the province should do everything in its power to stick it back to Brampton. Provinces have this power! Mike Harris wasn't afraid to use it against Toronto, and I suggest that the Wynne Liberals not be afraid to use it against municipalities that defy their larger objectives.

The current political situation of Brampton is pretty hard to fall victim to this strategy. Mayor Linda Jeffrey, after all, was the Municipal Affairs Minister of Ontario before becoming the Mayor of Brampton.

So, if the province pushes back and Brampton deteriorates, people will blame the mayor, not the councillors (considering the participation and intelligence levels of the 905 electorate), even though it is not her wrongdoing that caused all the mess.

So it's like shooting themselves on foot.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Presto still requires 24 hours to update your card balance online, or 12 hours if you're in Ottawa.

At least in Ottawa, the time lag has been shortened considerably.

[Beedok]

Apparently Hamilton's bike sharing programme has more users than Toronto's and has only been around a few months. Finally something is going right for Hamilton...

[WhipperSnapper]

Probably still a novelty boosting usage. Bixi was a disaster too. Could never find a bike.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Probably still a novelty boosting usage. Bixi was a disaster too. Could never find a bike.

Bixi had positive revenue this year though. You can see a lot of people riding them Downtown.

[Innsertnamehere]

And is about to double in size, probably going to help the whole "can never find a bike rack" thing.