Phoenix Development News (3)

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

^I saw a photo of the Central Station tower from the PURL model they have of downtown. If the renderings of all the buildings in the model are accurate, this rendition showed a different tower. I can't really describe it, but it looked smaller than the original version.

Is this the model you're referring to? It appears the small dark gray high-rise (looks about 18 stories) is in the location for Central Station.

[HX_Guy]

Are they even keeping that updated? I don't see the new Law School on there.

[Phxguy]

Yeah, that's the one I was referring to. There is a version of this before the tower was proposed, which leads me to believe this is being updated. But you're right, no law school. And the YMCA isn't shown.

[Jjs5056]

It might look a little shorter, but not too much. The bottom looks off; it looks like the tower is built on the west side of the lot and is integrated into the garage, whereas the real renderings show it centered and the garage detached.

I prefer the model... moving it to one side would help with the massive shadow it will produce over the park, and keep some view corridors from the park of the southern skyscrapers.

The garage is still a huge issue to me. This is prime real estate the city is giving away... using 3/4 of it for a garage is insane. The parking should've been subterranean or integrated into the base of an office tower a la OCPE. This is like a 2000s version of Wells Fargo.

[MegaBass]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Is this the model you're referring to? It appears the small dark gray high-rise (looks about 18 stories) is in the location for Central Station.

Visualizing Downtown Phoenix’s Future

Visualizing a new building in a vacant lot sounds easy enough, but can you visualize how an entire downtown will evolve?

The Phoenix Community Alliance (PCA) hopes that a 3D model entitled Downtown Phoenix: Today and Tomorrow will help. What was originally created as a 400 square foot model by Arizona State University is being preserved and updated as a visual representation of ongoing downtown development.

PCA President Don Keuth, had it modified to 10 by 16 feet, and updated it to represent both the city as it stands today and the proposed locations of future buildings. It currently represents 7th Street to 3rd Avenue, and the majority of downtown up to McDowell.

As many downtown residents know, vacant lots continue to blight the landscape, with many left wondering what’s to be done with these seemingly fabulous pieces of real estate. According to Don, this model will help visitors not only see how far we’ve come, but what the city has planned for those empty spaces.

Visitors will notice a landscape that looks similar to, but not exactly like, Downtown Phoenix, with existing buildings in an off-white color, while proposed buildings featured in a different color.

“The idea is to let people know that we have a plan for the dirt,” Keuth said. It can also be used to gauge how future projects fit into the urban landscape, which can be difficult to conceptualize.

The model is currently on display in the second floor lobby of CityScape. Keuth hopes it will aid the conversation for proposed buildings in the near future.

[Jjs5056]

So, 300 W McKinley is definitely being turned into a restaurant. "Upscale European lounge and restaurant" is how 800M Milk Bar is being described. Link to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/800Milkbar

The area south of Roosevelt is really picking up. 1st Street has Matt's Big Breakfast, Pomo, The Turf, etc. 2nd Street has the new bike shop/cafe (Velo), FilmBar and Angels Trumpet Ale House, and 3rd Street will soon have Milk Bar and Songbird Cafe. I really hope this inspires Matt Poole to do something with the old Tavern space. That's really the only space left with potential for decent reuse.

Of course, all of this is mixed into a sea of dirt lots which ruins any sense of connection between all of these establishments and to the greater Roosevelt Row. I really wish developers were interested in the Phoenix market; the lack of development is really pretty sad. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Streets between Roosevelt and McKinley are perfect for some creative infill. I'd love for the Pizza Hut to go away on 1st and for that area to become a mini "restaurant row," 2nd Street to get some galleries and boutiques, and for the Tavern to just open up again on 3rd St. Add some live/work units and pop-up parks onto the lots in-between, and there might just be the makings of a true arts district.

[soleri]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

So, 300 W McKinley is definitely being turned into a restaurant. "Upscale European lounge and restaurant" is how 800M Milk Bar is being described. Link to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/800Milkbar

The area south of Roosevelt is really picking up. 1st Street has Matt's Big Breakfast, Pomo, The Turf, etc. 2nd Street has the new bike shop/cafe (Velo), FilmBar and Angels Trumpet Ale House, and 3rd Street will soon have Milk Bar and Songbird Cafe. I really hope this inspires Matt Poole to do something with the old Tavern space. That's really the only space left with potential for decent reuse.

Of course, all of this is mixed into a sea of dirt lots which ruins any sense of connection between all of these establishments and to the greater Roosevelt Row. I really wish developers were interested in the Phoenix market; the lack of development is really pretty sad. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Streets between Roosevelt and McKinley are perfect for some creative infill. I'd love for the Pizza Hut to go away on 1st and for that area to become a mini "restaurant row," 2nd Street to get some galleries and boutiques, and for the Tavern to just open up again on 3rd St. Add some live/work units and pop-up parks onto the lots in-between, and there might just be the makings of a true arts district.

I think you mean 300 E McKinley.

Back to the Department of Dead Horses, Beatings Section: developers don't do urban triage. They do projects with that bankers and investors like, which tend to be overscaled and uncreative. Someone like Matt Poole is the opposite animal - a real urban curator working in the ruins of a permanently damaged downtown. The developers lurk in the shadows like vandal hordes waiting to capitalize on the successes of creative spirits. Unfortunately, all their land banking and demolition have pretty much killed the prospects of a downtown boom they fervently pray for. Let's call that boom Godot.

Or, put another way, they have met the enemy and decided to do lunch at Durant's.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by soleri

I think you mean 300 E McKinley.

Back to the Department of Dead Horses, Beatings Section: developers don't do urban triage. They do projects with that bankers and investors like, which tend to be overscaled and uncreative. Someone like Matt Poole is the opposite animal - a real urban curator working in the ruins of a permanently damaged downtown. The developers lurk in the shadows like vandal hordes waiting to capitalize on the successes of creative spirits. Unfortunately, all their land banking and demolition have pretty much killed the prospects of a downtown boom they fervently pray for. Let's call that boom Godot.

Or, put another way, they have met the enemy and decided to do lunch at Durant's.

Yes, I meant E McKinley.

I don't think it's the fact that developers need to turn out large-scale, uncreative projects; there are quite a few incentives on the table for infill and almost all of the investment downtown in recent years has been on the smaller scale. Even the "monster apartments" that will ruin Roosevelt with their overwhelming presence are topping out at 4-5 stories. Elsewhere, townhomes projects like MetroWest's 3rd Ave Townhomes, the colorful boxes on Moreland/7th Street, and the upcoming ones on Roosevelt/7th Street show that small-scale development isn't something that developers are shying away. Furthermore, MetroWest's projects as well as Lux (?) Coffee's 2-story infill project on 1st Street/Portland show that local developers are especially drawn to these fine-grained projects.

Unfortunately, the numbers just aren't enough to be making much of an impact on the urban form of areas like Roosevelt Row. I don't buy that the up-zoning and land banking are the only culprits; there is something else that is just making downtown unattractive for investment when most other major cities are seeing impressive amounts of infill and multifamily projects. If up-zoning were the issue, we wouldn't be seeing all of the proposals we have been reaching no higher than 5 stories at most. And, who knows, maybe if these projects actually got off the ground, some other small-scale development would follow? It seems like it's been a couple of years of 'wait and see' and nothing has taken off.

Lastly, I don't see how Matt Poole is any less destructive to the vibrancy of downtown than the rest of the land-bankers. He is sitting on a seedy hotel that could be transformed into a hostel or art hotel, an empty retail space where Matt's Big Breakfast once operated, and a gorgeous historic home that would make a perfect restaurant or lounge. Yes, Giant Coffee and Matt's Big Breakfast are two great contributions to the urban scene, but I see someone like Matt Seaman of MetroWest as doing far more for downtown. Again, who knows if some smaller projects could've blossomed if the Coronado was revived into a hostel with an attached art cafe? Or, if the Tavern was brought back to life?

It isn't at all constructive to shrug off the state of downtown and blame it on the dealings of developers from the past; downtown will never evolve beyond what it is with that attitude. There are organic, exciting things happening, as I pointed out in my last post. And, nothing in recent history says that small-scale infill to connect the dots between these sparks of life is impossible.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Yes, I meant E McKinley.

I don't think it's the fact that developers need to turn out large-scale, uncreative projects; there are quite a few incentives on the table for infill and almost all of the investment downtown in recent years has been on the smaller scale. Even the "monster apartments" that will ruin Roosevelt with their overwhelming presence are topping out at 4-5 stories. Elsewhere, townhomes projects like MetroWest's 3rd Ave Townhomes, the colorful boxes on Moreland/7th Street, and the upcoming ones on Roosevelt/7th Street show that small-scale development isn't something that developers are shying away. Furthermore, MetroWest's projects as well as Lux (?) Coffee's 2-story infill project on 1st Street/Portland show that local developers are especially drawn to these fine-grained projects.

Unfortunately, the numbers just aren't enough to be making much of an impact on the urban form of areas like Roosevelt Row. I don't buy that the up-zoning and land banking are the only culprits; there is something else that is just making downtown unattractive for investment when most other major cities are seeing impressive amounts of infill and multifamily projects. If up-zoning were the issue, we wouldn't be seeing all of the proposals we have been reaching no higher than 5 stories at most. And, who knows, maybe if these projects actually got off the ground, some other small-scale development would follow? It seems like it's been a couple of years of 'wait and see' and nothing has taken off.

Lastly, I don't see how Matt Poole is any less destructive to the vibrancy of downtown than the rest of the land-bankers. He is sitting on a seedy hotel that could be transformed into a hostel or art hotel, an empty retail space where Matt's Big Breakfast once operated, and a gorgeous historic home that would make a perfect restaurant or lounge. Yes, Giant Coffee and Matt's Big Breakfast are two great contributions to the urban scene, but I see someone like Matt Seaman of MetroWest as doing far more for downtown. Again, who knows if some smaller projects could've blossomed if the Coronado was revived into a hostel with an attached art cafe? Or, if the Tavern was brought back to life?

It isn't at all constructive to shrug off the state of downtown and blame it on the dealings of developers from the past; downtown will never evolve beyond what it is with that attitude. There are organic, exciting things happening, as I pointed out in my last post. And, nothing in recent history says that small-scale infill to connect the dots between these sparks of life is impossible.

Good points. There are small-scale developments that have been harmful, and there have been some big projects that proven helpful. Neither is intrinsically better than the other. It's a matter of holding each to high standards. That's far more productive than the simplistic good vs. evil / small vs. big thinking that is shaping a lot of the controversy over proposed apartment buildings on Roosevelt.

[ct424]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

So, 300 W McKinley is definitely being turned into a restaurant. "Upscale European lounge and restaurant" is how 800M Milk Bar is being described. Link to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/800Milkbar

The area south of Roosevelt is really picking up. 1st Street has Matt's Big Breakfast, Pomo, The Turf, etc. 2nd Street has the new bike shop/cafe (Velo), FilmBar and Angels Trumpet Ale House, and 3rd Street will soon have Milk Bar and Songbird Cafe. I really hope this inspires Matt Poole to do something with the old Tavern space. That's really the only space left with potential for decent reuse.

Of course, all of this is mixed into a sea of dirt lots which ruins any sense of connection between all of these establishments and to the greater Roosevelt Row. I really wish developers were interested in the Phoenix market; the lack of development is really pretty sad. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Streets between Roosevelt and McKinley are perfect for some creative infill. I'd love for the Pizza Hut to go away on 1st and for that area to become a mini "restaurant row," 2nd Street to get some galleries and boutiques, and for the Tavern to just open up again on 3rd St. Add some live/work units and pop-up parks onto the lots in-between, and there might just be the makings of a true arts district.

Walking by Milk Bar on the way to work, it seems like they're very close to being done. I saw a Now Hiring sign in front last week.

I agree that this development south of Roosevelt is exciting. There's also a lot of work being done to the building next to Film Bar and the parking lot for that building that fronts McKinley (I believe the address is 801 N 2nd St.). I think it's also going to be a new bar called Next Level.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by ct424

Walking by Milk Bar on the way to work, it seems like they're very close to being done. I saw a Now Hiring sign in front last week.

I agree that this development south of Roosevelt is exciting. There's also a lot of work being done to the building next to Film Bar and the parking lot for that building that fronts McKinley (I believe the address is 801 N 2nd St.). I think it's also going to be a new bar called Next Level.

Thanks for the update; did Milk Bar do any exterior renovations, or is the building still completely painted white? It'd be a shame if they left it in that state, knowing that there's a historic home underneath all of those layers. Curb appeal really does do a lot for establishments that are off the beaten track.

That's also awesome news regarding Next Level. If I'm thinking of the right building, it faces 215 McKinley? I saw it was for sale/lease, and thought it was an office building; secretly hoped it would be razed for townhomes, but an active use like a bar is even better. So, we'll now have: FilmBar, Angels Trumpet Ale House, Milk Bar, Velo, Moira, and Songbird all in a condensed walkable radius along 2nd and 3rd Streets. Again, I hope the curb appeal is done right - that's my one complaint about Ale House for example... poor signage and landscaping. Wish there was a patio in plain sight from the street/sidewalk.

The restaurants on 1st Street (Pomo, Turf, et al) are also fairly close, as are the live/work units of Skyline Lofts. If 4th/McKinley gets built and their live/work units leased, I'll eat my hat for thinking Roosevelt Row was kind of overrated.

ETA: Looks like 801 N 2nd is indeed the old office building I was thinking of. Even more exciting is that their full name appears to be "Next Level Arcade" - an arcade bar would be a perfect fit for that area, IMO. I only wish that they'd sacrifice some of the parking on the south side for a massive patio, but I know that won't happen. I'm also slightly disappointed to see that the parking lot faces Moira... this is the perfect example of where a small infill project would do wonders for the area. Instead of 2 bars (Moira and Next Level) each facing deadspace, they could be connected by a small 2-3 story live/work townhouse (or 2-3) with an art gallery or some other active use below. Last Debbie Downer comment - I'm even more frustrated at the empty Matt Poole spaces; nearly every possible building that could be adaptively reused has been, while those just sit vacant in the middle of it all.

[ASUSunDevil]

"The Colony" is expected to open at the beginning of next year. I've been told it will feature The Herb Box, Pure, Stock & Stable, Proper and something called Honor Amongst Thieves (hope they didn't sign a 10 year lease with that name). These guys build a lot of the entertainment in Scottsdale, their design looks promising.

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Profile/Profile.aspx?LID=18491229

[Jjs5056]

Would be nice to see something like this where the Circle K is proposed on Roosevelt/7th Street.

[combusean]

$40/sqft/year? Isn't that pretty high for Phoenix?

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by combusean

$40/sqft/year? Isn't that pretty high for Phoenix?

I'd think yes. The highest I've seen downtown is $28.

[exit2lef]

Over the past 24 hours, I've been seeing chatter on Facebook about the possibility that 222 E. Roosevelt (aka Greenhaus) will be moved to a vacant lot at 10th Street & Pierce in the Garfield neighborhood.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Over the past 24 hours, I've been seeing chatter on Facebook about the possibility that 222 E. Roosevelt (aka Greenhaus) will be moved to a vacant lot at 10th Street & Pierce in the Garfield neighborhood.

That would be awesome. Not 100% ideal, but I'd say the next best thing. Do you know exactly which empty lot?

10th & Pierce is where the old streetcar line turned north to head to Coronado. There are a couple historic street fronting buildings right there that could be restored giving the neighborhood their own little hub of activity (maybe a couple bars and an improved corner market.)

Also, there are several really nice historic bungalows just a couple lots over.

Here are two pictures I took of that intersection a couple of years ago:

[Jjs5056]

Great that it is being preserved, but yea- the location is less than ideal given the amount of empty land in the immediate vicinity. I can't look to see where it would fit, but the lot next to Modified Arts would have been great, or anywhere along 2nd Street (between Roosevelt and Portland) or 1st Street (between Portland and Moreland).

Actually, the best places would've been:
1. The lot next to the future Songbird Coffee on 3rd Street (Garfield-McKinley)
2. The lot next to Matt's Big Breakfast on 1st St (Garfield-McKinley)

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by PHX31

That would be awesome. Not 100% ideal, but I'd say the next best thing. Do you know exactly which empty lot?

I don't, but your photos are encouraging. A lot of the resistance to moving buildings is based on the argument that doing so takes them out of context. That would be true if the original neighboring structures were intact, but since so many in Evans-Churchill are gone, so is most of the context. This corner looks like it may actually be a good home in terms of placing the building among some structures from the same era.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I don't, but your photos are encouraging. A lot of the resistance to moving buildings is based on the argument that doing so takes them out of context. That would be true if the original neighboring structures were intact, but since so many in Evans-Churchill are gone, so is most of the context. This corner looks like it may actually be a good home in terms of placing the building among some structures from the same era.

Hopefully my last time chiming in - but I completely agree. Given how most of the remaining older building stock is so spread out, there is no context whatsoever. If financially possible, I would be in complete favor of gathering all the disparate buildings and placing them in a consolidated location where they would stand a chance at being restored and used.