ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by Midtown_DD

So I wouldn't make the generalization that everyone that speaks against the stadium is uninformed...

The people that complain about the money being used on a stadium instead of on schools or roads are uninformed. The hotel tax revenue can't be used on anything but tourism, the mayor says so himself near the end of the press conference. Most of the opposition from regular citizens has been along these lines, not from the city planning viewpoint you mentioned. Source: check the ajc.com comment section on any of the stadium funding articles. I didn't see any GT professors posting there.

Originally Posted by Midtown_DD

The somewhat mitigating factors of this whole boondogle for me would be if they do decide to build it immediately south of the Georgia Dome, the community has already 'adapted' to the stadium and there is good transit access. Also, I hope they do not create vast urban parking lots surrounding the stadium that cut the community off from the dome and create a future eyesore.

The Falcons and the City want the south site, but it will depend on how ongoing negotiations with Friendship Baptist Church turn out. Watch the press conference.

Originally Posted by Midtown_DD

For those of you that think the stadium will bring immense economic opportunity you're forgetting that we already have a stadium (and one that's not even 21 years old yet). How much EXTRA economic opportunity do you think replacing something that already functions well with something that functions incrementally better will provide? I'm not denying that maybe Atlanta will get to host the Superbowl or something in the future as a result of building this stadium, I'm just skeptical that the economic benefit from public investment couldn't be better realized in another endeavor.

Name another tourism endeavor that could match this. As far as economic impact, watch the press conference: the mayor outlines how big our tourism industry is, both by number of visitors and local jobs:

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/whats-next-in-falcons-stadium-saga/nWkZ5/

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by Midtown_DD

For those of you that think the stadium will bring immense economic opportunity you're forgetting that we already have a stadium (and one that's not even 21 years old yet). How much EXTRA economic opportunity do you think replacing something that already functions well with something that functions incrementally better will provide?

Amen. We already have a stadium that has recently hosted or will soon host the final four, SEC championships in multiple sports, the NFC championship, and college kick-off and bowl games. Anyone who is pushing economic benefits of a new stadium, you need to subtract off the existing benefit we already get from the Georgia Dome. Then is it still worth $200 million of tax payer money?

I also really don't like the petty insults. It's starting to sound like a city data forum up in here. We're allowed to disagree. There are many logical arguments that can be made both for and against using the hotel tax to pay for a new stadium, and plenty of discussion to be had about the specific urban design of a new stadium. It's counter-productive to attack other forumers. Seriously, calling someone a "big queen" because they asked about specifics on the tailgating? Calling another forumer a moron and ignorant? Saying "most of you never go down there anyway" when you have no idea if that's true? What are you hoping to accomplish?

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

Quoted for truth. I'm sure these are the same morons saying Centennial Olympic Park is the "the ghetto." These idiots can feel free to never come downtown and never refer to themselves as an "Atlantan" ever again.

The "rock-throwers," as the mayor calls him are looking pretty desperate with their complaints. Now people don't know what tailgating is...? I don't do it either, but I know it's a huge part of the gameday experience for some people. Here's the press conference. Near the end the mayor takes aim directly at the geniuses saying that the hotel tax should go to schools or roads. Funny stuff.

What's next in Falcons stadium saga (AJC)

Jesus Christ. I support the stadium. I just don't want a Turner Field in a wasteland.

I said I didn't know what a "Tailgating Park" is? Get it?

Just to be clear, people here are concerned about the surrounding neighborhood and you are championing Scania who essentially said "who gives a fuck if it's a big parking lot in a neighborhood nobody cares about". Scania thinks Midtown is Fort Apache The Bronx. I doubt he frequents Vine City.

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

Jesus Christ. I support the stadium. I just don't want a Turner Field in a wasteland.

I said I didn't know what a "Tailgating Park" is? Get it?

Just to be clear, people here are concerned about the surrounding neighborhood and you are championing Scania who essentially said "who gives a fuck if it's a big parking lot in a neighborhood nobody cares about". Scania thinks Midtown is Fort Apache The Bronx. I doubt he frequents Vine City.

I agree with this. I am all for the new stadium, but I think steps need to be taken to try to reconnect Vine City to the rest of the city. Northside, the GWCC, and the Dome act as a very large barrier cutting off this area. Steps need to be taken to make sure that this community is not any more negatively impacted than possible and if there is any way for them to benefit, not just through charity, but through actual solutions to the built environment that play off of gamedays, congress center events, and the urban design of the stadium, then these steps should be taken. We're talking about a 1-1.2 billion dollar investment here (I know the city is only doing about 200 million, but still a large investment nonetheless), so it needs to be thought through and done correctly. We won't get a second chance to redo this for quite a while. I do have confidence that with the current discussions there will be a lot more consideration for the impact it will have than stadiums may have done in years past.

[ChrisInmanPark]

New tower planned for Tech Square at Spring and 5th street.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print...ph_prem&u=/hQ8hdoiwBSY33jQRRRcPw022d97c3

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by ChrisInmanPark

New tower planned for Tech Square at Spring and 5th street.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print...ph_prem&u=/hQ8hdoiwBSY33jQRRRcPw022d97c3

So this is the empty lot next to LA Fitness, right?

So a separate proposal for student housing just a block south of the proposed student housing across from the Publix?

Can't see both happening. I remember somewhere GT saying the project across from Publix was overestimating the need to off-campus housing.

[ChrisInmanPark]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

So this is the empty lot next to LA Fitness, right?

So a separate proposal for student housing just a block south of the proposed student housing across from the Publix?

Can't see both happening. I remember somewhere GT saying the project across from Publix was overestimating the need to off-campus housing.

No this is at Spring and 5th. I believe the empty lot across from Barns and Noble.

Also don't forget about the tower planned where the Crum and Forster building is located. That is supposed to be a 24 story computing center. Now lets just see which one of these 3 get built. What was the latest on the Crum and Forster building? I can't keep up. They keep going back and forth.

[ChadK]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

So this is the empty lot next to LA Fitness, right?

So a separate proposal for student housing just a block south of the proposed student housing across from the Publix?

Can't see both happening. I remember somewhere GT saying the project across from Publix was overestimating the need to off-campus housing.

This is not next to the LA Fitness, it will be on the empty lot across from the Barnes and Noble. Another empty lot down!

[AtlantaMustang]

Agreed. I see one or the other happening, probably not both. Although tech did send out an email to 4th years and higher saying that they could not guarantee housing and to look for options of campus so they could secure housing for the larger classes of lower classmen.

[micropundit]

Georgia Tech graduate students are putting the finishing touches on recommendations that intend to transform Northside Drive into a grand transit boulevard. Tech’s study is to be complete in May.
Here are a few of the concepts that relate to the stadium:
■Open a passage that will serve all travel modes from Vine City through the site of the existing Georgia Dome to a new connection with Andrew Young International Boulevard;
■Improve the connection between Castleberry Hill and the Atlanta University Center neighborhoods at Fair Street, possibly by extending transit from the planned development in the gulch into the AUC;
■Reconfigure the area around I-20 at Northside Drive, Peters Street, and West Whitehall Street to improve the flow of traffic from Northside Drive into the West End business district. This would provide access from Northside Drive to I-20 West, and promote West End as the business hub of the southwest Downtown area;
■Establish a greenway from the site of the stadium and Georgia World Congress Center to the Vine City neighborhood, passing through the planned Mimms park, in order to mitigate storm runoff problems;
■Ensure that the future buildings that face neighborhoods have sidewalks and bike connectivity to the neighborhoods, and ensure that the new buildings have some elements that serve the neighboring residents.

The study is directed by Mike Dobbins, a Tech professor of practice and former Atlanta planning commissioner. The work is being done by masters students in fields such as city planning, civil engineering, urban design, and architecture
http://saportareport.com/blog/2013/03/te...de-work-in-communities-near-new-stadium/

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by ChadK

This is not next to the LA Fitness, it will be on the empty lot across from the Barnes and Noble. Another empty lot down!

The tailgating (whatever that is!) lot here?:

map

[testarossa50]

So we're talking potentially 3 new ~20 floor towers in a 2-3 block radius? That would be awesome. Tech Square would be a bustling, complete urban area. Right now it's nice, but with those gaps missing it would be among the most urban places in the metro, while just 15 years ago it was emptiness and blight.

Hard not to be bullish on Midtown right now.

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

The tailgating (whatever that is!) lot here?:

map

The article isn't super clear on that. It says it will rise beside the Centergy One building at Spring and 5th, but I can't tell if they mean Centergy One is at 5th and Spring or if the new building will be at 5th and Spring. I'm fine with either personally. They'll both fill in soon enough at this prime location.

Edit: although I don't have the full article so maybe it specifies more clearly.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

Jesus Christ. I support the stadium. I just don't want a Turner Field in a wasteland.

I said I didn't know what a "Tailgating Park" is? Get it?

It seemed pretty obvious what it is: a park made for tailgating. Sorry that was so difficult, but I'm glad you get it now

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by shivtim

I also really don't like the petty insults. It's starting to sound like a city data forum up in here. We're allowed to disagree. There are many logical arguments that can be made both for and against using the hotel tax to pay for a new stadium, and plenty of discussion to be had about the specific urban design of a new stadium. It's counter-productive to attack other forumers. Seriously, calling someone a "big queen" because they asked about specifics on the tailgating? Calling another forumer a moron and ignorant? Saying "most of you never go down there anyway" when you have no idea if that's true? What are you hoping to accomplish?

I agree with this, the problem is I wasn't referring to another forumer: I was talking about the mouth-breathers (another insult) on the ajc.com blogs. Clearly, people on this forum understand urban development and can intelligently disagree. My beef is with the morons and idiots that haven't taken the time to read up on the project, and literally think the stadium is being funded by $1 billion in new taxes. I'm not exaggerating: people literally are that uninformed. Yes, they're morons.

[ATLaffinity]

Ok, that proposed Centergy Development is to the north next to LA Fitness.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by Midtown_DD

So, actually, I do have a degree in urban planning and took a course that included information about stadiums and how they affect the local neighborhoods and economy. I also currently work as a city planner. A GT professor also used to occasionally take a class around the neighborhoods near Atlanta's existing stadiums and meet with the community representatives. From these experiences, I'm pretty convinced that stadiums are more trouble than they're worth for most people. So I wouldn't make the generalization that everyone that speaks against the stadium is uninformed...

Sure, the business community in Atlanta may benefit, and sure you guys that live OTP, Buckhead, Decatur, etc may benefit from some sense of pride that your city did something interesting; and now you can watch 300lbs men give each other concussions somewhere that might beat out Dallas's stadium (just whip it out already guys, yeah?)...but the people that live near the thing will almost certainly not have the quality of their life improved, and we could use those public dollars for other purposes that would improve the quality of life of the entire city and not just a select few (I don't need to hear anything about how the money is coming from a hotel tax, I fully understand that, but it could be repurposed and used for something better even if that requires legislative action).

The somewhat mitigating factors of this whole boondogle for me would be if they do decide to build it immediately south of the Georgia Dome, the community has already 'adapted' to the stadium and there is good transit access. Also, I hope they do not create vast urban parking lots surrounding the stadium that cut the community off from the dome and create a future eyesore.

For those of you that think the stadium will bring immense economic opportunity you're forgetting that we already have a stadium (and one that's not even 21 years old yet). How much EXTRA economic opportunity do you think replacing something that already functions well with something that functions incrementally better will provide? I'm not denying that maybe Atlanta will get to host the Superbowl or something in the future as a result of building this stadium, I'm just skeptical that the economic benefit from public investment couldn't be better realized in another endeavor.

Many thousands of Falcons fans also benefit from the experience of a new stadium...don't forget about that. I love the Georgia Dome and truly think it could be a great stadium for years to come, but there is something these days about having a newer/better/shinier stadium than the next city.

[Zanarkand A East]

One step closer to new stadium being built at south site:

Church may give way to new stadium (11 Alive)

[Nanosolar]

It's really the South site or bust. Building the stadium away from Marta would be a disaster.

[clexmond]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

The article isn't super clear on that. It says it will rise beside the Centergy One building at Spring and 5th, but I can't tell if they mean Centergy One is at 5th and Spring or if the new building will be at 5th and Spring. I'm fine with either personally. They'll both fill in soon enough at this prime location.

Edit: although I don't have the full article so maybe it specifies more clearly.

There's an article on bizjournals that's a little more clear. It mentions a 1 acre site adjacent to the existing development. That basically means it can only be here: http://goo.gl/maps/EPBO3