The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[ssiguy]

Good thing I hold Harper in such high esteem or I would think this maybe a little bit of vote buying.

This is good news for Toronto though. Even when the Conservatives lose the next election it will be nearly impossible for the NDP and/or Liberals to not honour the money pledge and if Harper only gets in with a minority he will have to include huge amounts for infrastructure including this announcement or the NDP/Libs will bring down the government especially because they both heavily rely on the urban vote.

So even though this is election buying at it's very best, this is real money that Toronto will actually see. The only thing stopping the cheque from being delivered will be Torontonians themselves if they yet again change their plans. This announcement even helps in that cause because with Queen's Park putting up money and the feds offering this huge amount for Smart Track only, it would be nearly impossible for the City to say "no thanks" and create yet another plan.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Well, when Kathleen Wynne called for the federal government to commit to increasing infrastructure spending to 2% of GDP (meaning an eight-fold increase over today) over time, Trudeau agreed and said his party would do so if elected.

Thats 18 billion folks. Imagine what we could do with that! Or if the government spent all of its 'bail out' money on infrastructure. Like has been said again and again, the best way to stimulate economic growth is infrastructure spending. Every city exploring new LRT and BRT and enhancements could have been build or mostly complete by now!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Stephen Harper promises funding for Toronto's SmartTrack transit line



image from and full article : http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephen-...onto-s-smarttrack-transit-line-1.3118782

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has announced the federal government will provide funding for up to one-third of the cost for Toronto's SmartTrack transit line.

Harper highlighted the funding for Toronto's transit system, which was outlined in April's federal budget, alongside Finance Minister Joe Oliver and Toronto Mayor John Tory today.

The trio made the announcement at the Toronto Transit Commission's Hillcrest Complex in midtown Toronto.

Oliver said the funding is all about making Toronto a liveable place for citizens and efficient place for job-creating businesses.

"We are an engine of the Canadian economy, the heart of the Canadian advantage," he said.

"If we can't get people moving in the GTA, our engine will splutter."

A grinning Tory said: "What a great day for the city of Toronto."

Wait, wait wait!!! So Smarttrack was John Tory's transit platform during the 2014 election. Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far we only have a line on a napkin per say, no environmental studies, not technology, no time line, no detailed cost estimates, no nothing. This seems to be an unsolicited promise from Harper.

What's interesting is that Ottawa has an official plan for O-Train expansion plan east, west and south with studies underway, chosen technology and most routes pretty much decided. We even have a realistic time line. So far, the Province has confirmed there commitment over and over again, but the Feds refuse to even talk about it until they get an "official request for funds, then we'll look at the proposal and see if we can contribute".

Anyone else see the problem here?

I'm not taking anything away from Smarttrack; it seems like a solid plan. Cost effective way to provide a cross town rapid transit line for an affordable price (mostly surface I assume, while still fully grade separated) while also doubling as a long awaited downtown relief line.

I just think that all cities should be on the same playing field when upper tier governments officially pledge money. Everything should be ready for the RFP. Not expecting the Queen's Park or the Feds to pledge money for the Downtown Ottawa truck tunnel that's is only conceptual at this point.

[MalcolmTucker]

Politics, but everyone (all provinces) will get the money in the end. Last year Edmonton was given similar assurances for their Millwoods LRT line before the New Building Canada Fund was formally approved (they were much further along in the process granted ).

The announcement was more of a 'here is how the grant will work, SmartTrack is a project that would be eligible under this program'. Since Ontario is building all of their projects through Infrastructure Ontario/Metrolinx with long term payments, indicating that the programs align is a good thing. If the program continues as planned it means that there will be less squeezing out of other projects due to timing issues.

$2.6 billion over 30 years supports $1.6 billion in initial capital costs, give or take whether the payments start at construction start or project availability.

Even if it was exclusively out of the mass transit fund, that leaves more than $900 million a year to finance projects, or a total support for $19.4 billion of capital borrowing Canada wide, on a 30 year term at current interest rates. $60 billion of transit is a lot.

[Delirium]

here's a look at Translink's 28 new Bombardier Innovia Metro 300 train cars for Vancouver’s SkyTrain system -scheduled to arrive at the end of year.


photo http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/06/sleek-looking-longer-skytrain-trains-arriving-this-year/


photo http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/06/sleek-looking-longer-skytrain-trains-arriving-this-year/


photo http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/06/sleek-looking-longer-skytrain-trains-arriving-this-year/

These new cars will feature a number of design elements that substantially improve passenger comfort and reduce maintenance needs and costs;

• The windows on the side and front of the trains will be substantially larger to allow more natural lighting.
• Compared to the previous two generations of SkyTrain Mark-series cars, another major improvement passengers will notice is the reduced noise and rattling inside the car.
• The new cars come with a longer lasting battery that is lightweight and smaller in size. It is estimated that the batteries will last 25 years instead of 10years on the existing fleet.
• The train interiors will be more spacious – with more larger open spaces available for bikes, strollers and wheelchairs – and brightly lit due to an improved LED lighting system.

full article; http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/06/sleek-looking-longer-skytrain-trains-arriving-this-year/

[SkahHigh]

^very fresh

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Wait, wait wait!!! So Smarttrack was John Tory's transit platform during the 2014 election. Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far we only have a line on a napkin per say, no environmental studies, not technology, no time line, no detailed cost estimates, no nothing. This seems to be an unsolicited promise from Harper.

What's interesting is that Ottawa has an official plan for O-Train expansion plan east, west and south with studies underway, chosen technology and most routes pretty much decided. We even have a realistic time line. So far, the Province has confirmed there commitment over and over again, but the Feds refuse to even talk about it until they get an "official request for funds, then we'll look at the proposal and see if we can contribute".

Anyone else see the problem here?

I'm not taking anything away from Smarttrack; it seems like a solid plan. Cost effective way to provide a cross town rapid transit line for an affordable price (mostly surface I assume, while still fully grade separated) while also doubling as a long awaited downtown relief line.

I just think that all cities should be on the same playing field when upper tier governments officially pledge money. Everything should be ready for the RFP. Not expecting the Queen's Park or the Feds to pledge money for the Downtown Ottawa truck tunnel that's is only conceptual at this point.

Well, Smarttrack is really just GO Transit/Metrolinx electrification so really the environmental assessments and preliminary planning has already been completed. The provinces share of the money, $10 billion is in place and Metrolinx has already put out the tender (RFP) Request for Proposal to construct the electrical sub-stations along the route.

[TorontoDrew]

I like how when Harper was asked about the DRL he said no real talks or studies had been done on it. Like most Conservatives they have no clue or just don't care about what cities actually need. Smart Track is just a theory. Don't get me wrong I love John Tory as Mayor but the DRL is still the most important piece of the TTC puzzle that's missing.

[bikegypsy]

Stage 2 of the OTrain. 17 additional stations.

www.stage2lrt.ca

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Stage 2 of the OTrain. 17 additional stations.

www.stage2lrt.ca

This is great for Ottawa, but they should really improve frequency before expanding Trillium. It's usually the best way to encourage ridership.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

This is great for Ottawa, but they should really improve frequency before expanding Trillium. It's usually the best way to encourage ridership.

Agreed. The city just increased the frequency and it proved to be a real pain as the line is single track. it needs to be doubled to increase it any further.

[MoreTrains]

Oh, SkahHigh and bikegypsy, we know. Youve probably followed all of the disdain for the Trillium line in the Ottawa section of the forum. Its a pretty ludacris idea to expand it without expanding it. I believe the preference from there is to twin the tracks as it stands before extending it; electrification or not, two tracks are needed. But you know politicians, they dont necessarily know a thing about life in their cities.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

Oh, SkahHigh and bikegypsy, we know. Youve probably followed all of the disdain for the Trillium line in the Ottawa section of the forum. Its a pretty ludacris idea to expand it without expanding it. I believe the preference from there is to twin the tracks as it stands before extending it; electrification or not, two tracks are needed. But you know politicians, they dont necessarily know a thing about life in their cities.

And they don't necessarily know a thing about public transit. This a general issue.

Example from Montreal:
The study concerning the future mode (BRT, tram-train, tram or Metro) to be implanted in the Eastern part of the city was made public. That study specifically states that a mode other than the Metro would be harder to implement and would represent a significant loss of ridership potential compared to the Metro (40% ridership drop). Upon seeing this, the Transports minister decided that there won't be an overground mode implanted in the East, and he awaits the final results of the Blue line extension project office (next December) to give the go-ahead. Yet mayor Coderre doesn't want a Metro extension towards Anjou (too expensive according to him) and instead wants the Caisse to finance tram lines in the East, when the city wouldn't even be financing the majority of the Metro extension... Now half of the city hall executive commitee wants a Metro extension and the other half a new tram network...

I think this is the first time a mayor declines a government offer to finance a rapid transit project...

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

I think this is the first time a mayor declines a government offer to finance a rapid transit project...

Nope. Transit City in Toronto. A set of rapid transit lines that would literally be 100% paid for by the province was rejected by Rob Ford.

[bikegypsy]

Mayors of major cities should be obligated to bike and ride public transit at least half their working days while in office.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Nope. Transit City in Toronto. A set of rapid transit lines that would literally be 100% paid for by the province was rejected by Rob Ford.

True. Some of Transit City's projects survived at least...

[MalcolmTucker]

It didn't help that the studies costing the Transit City Lines as originally conceived were super poorly done, so on day 2 they were already massively over budget, even before the scope changed to move lines underground in places.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Agreed. The city just increased the frequency and it proved to be a real pain as the line is single track. it needs to be doubled to increase it any further.

The city can't afford to double track it, so they would rather implement something that is never going to work well to prove that it is doing something to serve the south sector of the city. In other words, to pacify voters in the affected wards. The thought of adding an airport spur in this mix is absolutely scary.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the whole line will shut down again to retrofit stations for the now planned two car trains and to do a tad more double tracking at one proposed station (Gladstone).

The whole setup is so fragile that service shutdowns are inevitable with any significant attempts to improve the line. It has already happened several times.

Ottawa will forever pay for that 2006 decision as millions keep getting pumped into an inadequate setup that will always underperform in terms of frequency and ridership. They say they can achieve 10 minute frequency when they can't do it now and they are adding stations. We will be lucky if they can even maintain the current 12 minute frequency when Phase 2 opens.

The latest attempt to save more money on this already inadequate line is to get permission to have level crossings on Phase 2.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The latest attempt to save more money on this already inadequate line is to get permission to have level crossings on Phase 2.

That would be a very interesting development if so. DMUs are not allowed to cross roadways in Canada. If TC allowed this, it would have major implications on options for GO expansion in the GTA.

[1overcosc]

The contrast between Ottawa's two lines is interesting. On the one hand you have the Confederation Line which is very high end (essentially a fully fledged metro line), and on the other hand, the patchwork ramshackle Trillium Line.