Winnipeg Construction X

[Biff]

It might have been said on here before but 138 Portage (old Hyatt proposal) has been bought locally and is poised for redevelopment.

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by Biff

It might have been said on here before but 138 Portage (old Hyatt proposal) has been bought locally and is poised for redevelopment.

Now that’s good news!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

It might have been said on here before but 138 Portage (old Hyatt proposal) has been bought locally and is poised for redevelopment.

Yeah, wow, that is fantastic. Still a hotel or are other plans in the works?

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, wow, that is fantastic. Still a hotel or are other plans in the works?

I am glad to see/hear that.
While I get that the hotel industry will take time to rebound, I still hope it could be a hotel but if not, residential could be great too.
Been with that fire a few year ago, The Keewayden building built in 1909 is a very tough old broad.
The scandal with the lawyer who owned it and deceived investors on its value may have scared off Hyatt. Regardless, anything there in terms of use is better than a boarded up building.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by Labroco

It appears the Sky parking lot has been conditionally sold for $9,000,000 ish. A substantial price for Winnipeg. A building permit has been submitted…
for a new fence…

The use for the next 20 years… parking lot.

And no I didn’t buy it.

Any up date on the St Regis?

St Regis in the end was torn down for nothing.....

Just like with the Coronation Block / Shanghai, now this..
All too often this keeps occurring here.
Next, the purposely ignored by owner Ken Zaifman with the St Charles will fall and a parking lot will appear.
Sad how there are so few rules to keep that rom happening.

\

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by Labroco

It appears the Sky parking lot has been conditionally sold for $9,000,000 ish. A substantial price for Winnipeg. A building permit has been submitted…
for a new fence…

The use for the next 20 years… parking lot.

My god that is depressing. It looks so ridiculous having a 40 floor building next to two massive surface parking lots.

Great news about 138 Portage.

[Only The Lonely..]

Those downtown surface lots should be taxed as if there were a two story or three story building on them.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

St Regis in the end was torn down for nothing.....

Just like with the Coronation Block / Shanghai, now this..
All too often this keeps occurring here.
Next, the purposely ignored by owner Ken Zaifman with the St Charles will fall and a parking lot will appear.
Sad how there are so few rules to keep that rom happening.

\

In a past post I compared some developer's tactics to a "bait & switch" scheme, and quite frankly I've seen nothing to disavow this opinion. How often do we read promises by some "developers" who claim they will build this, that and the other thing if only they get permission to tear down a building. Building gets torn down and....oops! Sorry, no money! Guess I'll just have to have a parking lot there....only "short term" you understand!

Yes, I know, there are some developers with ethics and they can't be lumped into this group, but there also seem to be a LOT of shady operators. Just IMO, but you can't help getting discouraged when you see crap like BAKGUY writes about happen over and over again.

[thebasketballgeek]

At this point in the municipal election I’m going to become a single issue voter and whoever has the best policy to removing those hideous concrete wastelands throughout our downtown is who I’m going to vote for.

Enough is enough we’ve talked about surface parking lots in this city for as long as I’ve been on this forum and virtually nothing has been done about it. Where’s the demand for this anyway aren’t most people going to be WFH even once all restrictions are lifted if they have the choice?

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Those downtown surface lots should be taxed as if there were a two story or three story building on them.

If they did that the taxes would be LOWER because the income after expenses would be LESS! Property is assessed on value. Value is determined by its NNN cash flow at … pick a number for Wpg 6%? With the sale of Sky parking lot at almost 50k a stall there will be added pressure from assessment to increase parking lot values not withstanding the income does not justify the price.

Pandemic income does not justify this pricing / purchase price. What does this mean? It means lots are being treated as gold bullion with some kind of intrinsic value that does not produce any income. It’s become a hedge against inflation… On a leveraged bases with other cash flows to write off the “loss” it is a good plan.

If one want things to be built on these lots there must be a use. Additional taxation will do nothing to solve the issue. As mentioned previously, if the parking lots were leased and then built on we may start to get some traction in MHO.

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by pspeid

In a past post I compared some developer's tactics to a "bait & switch" scheme, and quite frankly I've seen nothing to disavow this opinion. How often do we read promises by some "developers" who claim they will build this, that and the other thing if only they get permission to tear down a building. Building gets torn down and....oops! Sorry, no money! Guess I'll just have to have a parking lot there....only "short term" you understand!

Yes, I know, there are some developers with ethics and they can't be lumped into this group, but there also seem to be a LOT of shady operators. Just IMO, but you can't help getting discouraged when you see crap like BAKGUY writes about happen over and over again.

Keep an eye on the torn down St Regis site to ensure there is no “temporary parking” come the spring… let’s not forget who was responsible for this demolition.

Just to be clear the largest parking lot owners are very reputable corporations… Richardson, Thompson, United Equities, Great West Life, Province of Manitoba, City of Winnipeg.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Labroco

Keep an eye on the torn down St Regis site to ensure there is no “temporary parking” come the spring

Nope. The nice thing about an arms length development agency brokering the sale of publicly owned properties is that they can ensure land is redeveloped to its highest and best use through the use of Development Agreements and take tack clauses. Sometimes, especially during global pandemics, this can be a longer process as developers work through their options in a period of challenging economics.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by Labroco

If they did that the taxes would be LOWER because the income after expenses would be LESS! Property is assessed on value. Value is determined by its NNN cash flow at … pick a number for Wpg 6%? With the sale of Sky parking lot at almost 50k a stall there will be added pressure from assessment to increase parking lot values not withstanding the income does not justify the price.

Pandemic income does not justify this pricing / purchase price. What does this mean? It means lots are being treated as gold bullion with some kind of intrinsic value that does not produce any income. It’s become a hedge against inflation… On a leveraged bases with other cash flows to write off the “loss” it is a good plan.

If one want things to be built on these lots there must be a use. Additional taxation will do nothing to solve the issue. As mentioned previously, if the parking lots were leased and then built on we may start to get some traction in MHO.

^ So essentially these parking lots are just treated as an investment because these parcels of land are expected to appreciate in value faster then inflation?

Originally Posted by Labroco

Just to be clear the largest parking lot owners are very reputable corporations… Richardson, Thompson, United Equities, Great West Life, Province of Manitoba, City of Winnipeg.

Also, I’m assuming the majority of these corps have made substantial shifts to more WFH environments. With the pandemic restrictions being lifted are they all going to be forced to go back to the office? I’m sure the mostly suburban employees wouldn’t be too thrilled with that idea. But if they stay at home who is going to actually occupy these parking lots?

I guess because the market for downtown living is so volatile and with all the problems that go on with construction that just painting a concrete strip white to separate stalls is quite a risk-free, boring investment opportunity. I wonder what their ROI would be if they just built market-rate housing providing an opportunity for their employees to potentially live nearby instead compared to the parking lot? Probably less gross revenue but higher profit margins if I had to guess.

Oh well it’s definitely more complicated then just saying to build more.

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Nope. The nice thing about an arms length development agency brokering the sale of publicly owned properties is that they can ensure land is redeveloped to its highest and best use through the use of Development Agreements and take tack clauses. Sometimes, especially during global pandemics, this can be a longer process as developers work through their options in a period of challenging economics.

Well as long as we do not see vehicles parked on the site it’s a step in the right direction I suppose notwithstanding a heritage building being demolished was definitely a wrong decision. If we buy into the concept of “highest and best use” for a site, one also needs to buy into market forces determining what that use may be. If the site was sold for example with a no parking lot caveat, realty taxes and a sale price would have flowed back to the City years ago. To tie up these lands for years and years waiting for your “highest and best use” is not really a successful way to move forward for anyone.

Again any update on a building proposal for the St Regis site? Clarity allows others to move forward and removes uncertainty. No one was going to buy the Sky site and invest development equity until the plans next door were clarified and construction started. A little more transparency goes a long…

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

^ So essentially these parking lots are just treated as an investment because these parcels of land are expected to appreciate in value faster then inflation?



Also, I’m assuming the majority of these corps have made substantial shifts to more WFH environments. With the pandemic restrictions being lifted are they all going to be forced to go back to the office? I’m sure the mostly suburban employees wouldn’t be too thrilled with that idea. But if they stay at home who is going to actually occupy these parking lots?

I guess because the market for downtown living is so volatile and with all the problems that go on with construction that just painting a concrete strip white to separate stalls is quite a risk-free, boring investment opportunity. I wonder what their ROI would be if they just built market-rate housing providing an opportunity for their employees to potentially live nearby instead compared to the parking lot? Probably less gross revenue but higher profit margins if I had to guess.

Oh well it’s definitely more complicated then just saying to build more.

By selling the lots there are huge capital gains and no place to really deploy the capital. This is why I’m suggesting long term leases on the land to entities such as the U of W development corporation. They have a fabulous model and proven outcome. I would lease everything to them in a heart beat…

And yes they are expect to appreciate substantially faster than rampant inflation.

[biguc]

Isn't is harder to secure financing to build on land you don't own?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Labroco

Again any update on a building proposal for the St Regis site? Clarity allows others to move forward and removes uncertainty. No one was going to buy the Sky site and invest development equity until the plans next door were clarified and construction started. A little more transparency goes a long…

At minimum, there will be a 10 storey parkade.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Biff

At minimum, there will be a 10 storey parkade.

Well, that's 10X better than a surface lot!

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, wow, that is fantastic. Still a hotel or are other plans in the works?

It will be residential. Proposal includes an addition with parking on the neighbouring lot IIRC.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

It will be residential. Proposal includes an addition with parking on the neighbouring lot IIRC.

Man. All this residential at Portage and Main, who would have ever thought.

I remember back in the 80s, my dad was listening to a comedy routine on the radio in Ukrainian. The gag was that some Ukrainian drunk called the MLCC, trying to get them to deliver booze to his home, and when they asked where he lived the punch line was, in slurred voice, "Portage and Main!" (cue laughs at the sheer absurdity of the thought).

Now it has become reality