Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[twig]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

This is a real pet peeve of mine. I'm not trying to single you out, Ironweed, but god people, can we stop saying this?

I mean, I understand that our downtown is smaller than it should be, but jeez it's not teeny tiny. Sometimes you guys act like we look like Provo from afar. Here's a positive thought:
I'd say we Salt Lakers are lucky that the large majority of our highrises are attractive. Not always "groundbreaking" or whatever, but nice to look at. Other mid sized cities haven't been as lucky. They've seen skyscraper development, however, you can expect most towers from and since the 20th century skyscraper boom to have bland or fugly designs. The only downright ugly building that made a dent in SLC's skyline was imploded over a decade ago.

I love you guys and this forum, but yall are making it a total bummer. Can we please try to use different rhetoric. I don't mean to imply that what's being said is always false, it's just not always productive.

I don't know, maybe I just feel entitled to a more positive vibe here. I don't want to check out of this site, I really enjoy reading. No one who I know in person cares about development or buildings. I need an escape that this site provides!

BTW, great pics!

Well the problem is our downtown is puny. It doesn't help that our largest city is almost the same size as Provo and every other small city in this suburbia. Therefore in effect from that it almost seems like Sandy and every other small city seems they are just entitled to be the city center/ business district as Salt Lake is. Salt Lake is trying to be the city but they just don't/ cant seem to dominate the rest of the cities. There are so many more developments for larger companies being built out in the burbs than there is anyone considering Salt Lake. We are moving in the right direction but at a slugs pace. But at the same time, how long now have we been convincing ourselves that Salt Lake is moving in the right direction and that big things are coming? From what I've seen nothing noteworthy is ground breaking and the OR left us for our mortal enemy Denver. I think people here get jealous and discouraged because Denver has everything and we all believe we should be more on the same level as Denver. But I don't think we remember that Denver is a lot larger than us and will always have a lot more than us. But going back, how much longer are we going to convince ourselves that we are moving in the right direction before we realize that we are moving at such a slow pace and our projects keep dying off faster than the plague. What we need is some new leaders to take over Salt Lake who realize that we need to bring more of our attractions downtown or at least close to downtown (like why is our aquarium way the f out there? we're not Phoenix) and we need more incentives for companies to want to move downtown.

[grasscom]

^ from my sample size of people I know, most people in Utah don't tend to be 'big city' folks. I think that tends to be a huge factor of why downtown is not bigger. Everyone in this state seems to be scared of cities unless they are sprawled out into nonsense. And everyone else seems to have a million kids and need big houses. I like the larger apartment and condo size ideas mentioned from before. But I just don't think people here will ever want to live in the city. (not that Salt Lake is even that big but still.) I think that because of Hollywood and cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, and Detroit, people look at those and think that all cities are gang infested and drug ridden. When in reality there are a lot of amazing downtown's to live in.

[Mountain man]

You guys are a mess. I want to see if you guys can go the rest of today talking about nothing but just developments. Or anything that actually relates to the developments of your city. I doubt you guys can but I want to see if you guys can! None of this negative "our city is so small" or "our city has no developments happening" crap. No homeless talk, that has been well over killed. No outsiders perspective talk. No look how pretty it is talk. And stop talking like you all are depressed.

Here is a copy of what jubguy3 wrote on proposed buildings on the first page of this forum.

PROPOSED

Convention Center Hotel
Proposed
more info to follow if these guys can EVER get their act together..

The Regent Street Hotel
Proposed
Added: 06/14/2015
Location: Eat-A-Burger site
Other: 14 levels Boutique Hotel, 6 levels condos. 190 hotel rooms and 36 Residential Units with restaurant and lobby 20 story tall with a pavilion for a roof deck. 330 FT. 20-stories total. 8th tallest building when/if finish.



151 Tower
http://www.dixonslc.com/?section=office
Proposed
Updated: 04/30/2014
Floors:18
Other: Tower building proposed by Boyer as part of their recent purchase of the former Questar and adjacent properties to the south and then to the west. A parking structure to the east, mid block, is currently under construction.
Location: 151 S State

photo credit: Dixon & Associates


Air Hotels
http://airslc.info/
Proposed
Added: 04/30/2014
Location: NW corner of 400 S and West Temple
Other: This 300+ FT 23-story tower ( based off of the rendering below ) could be Salt Lake's next skyscraper that will include a restaurant and a high end night club., roof top pool/club, 350 person multi-use entertainment space. The lot is cleared and the small two story building on the north end is already built and occupied.

2015 Renderings



Arrow Press Highrise
Proposed
Added: 08/11/2015
Location: Arrow Press Building site
Other: One of the new plans is to tear down and build a high-rise structure on the site of Arrow Press Square, across from the Salt Palace (and site of the old Dead Goat Saloon and Club DV8). The Downtown Alliance released this artist’s rendering of the concept development:



Hardware Station Development
Proposed
Added: 01/10/2016
Location: 155 N 400 W Salt Lake City
Other: Three Buildings, each 5-7 stories






Salt Lake City AC Hotel
Proposed
Added: 08/27/2015
Location: Unknown at this time
Other: 10-stories 127 rooms opening 2017


Utah Theater
Proposed
Added: 11/18/2014
Location: Approx 170 S. Main Street



Wasatch 600 South Apartments
Proposed
Added: 08/11/2015
Location: Approx 616 S. State Street




Granite Furniture Block Redevelopment, Phase II
Proposed
Location: McClelland St (10th E) and Sugarmount Drive
Other: South of the completed Phase I Granite Furniture Redevelopment. Across the street from the current terminus of the S-Line Streetcar




Zellerbach Property
Proposed
Floors: 4-stories
Other: Mix use development in South Salt Lake alone the S-line
Location: 2255 South 300 East




4th & 4th Apartements
Proposed
Floors:5 floors, 122 apartments
Location: NW Corner 400 E 400 S on the former Sizzler site.

Image from www.beecherwalker.com



City Creek Center - The Cascade
http://www.citycreekliving.com/
Proposed
Floors:19
Other: Residential Condos. The base has been constructed up to level 2. The residential units above will be constructed as economic conditions and demand grow.
Location: approx 51 West 100 S



Social Hall Tower 1
http://www.cowboy.us/citycreekcenter.php
Proposed
Floors: unknown
Other: Residential.On Hold until market demand improves.
Location: NW corner 200 E 100 S



CCC Tower 8
http://www.downtownrising.com/city_creek/
Proposed
Floors: 20ish
Other: Future Planned Tower. Timeline unknown.
Location: NE corner State and 100 S


World Trade Center plaza
http://www.wtcut.com/
Proposed
Floors:Unknown, but RFPs call for a 25-30 floor tower
Address: The location of this rendering shows 200 South and State Street, but no official site has been chosen yet.
Other:Future Planned... looking for 700,000 sq ft of office space. They are looking for a plaza of buildings as well. We could see a smaller 10-15 floor tower on the plaza as well, as seen in the pic. Final renderings have not been released yet.



Wasatch Properties
Proposed
Floors: unknown
Address: 400 South State Street
Other: The developer is in early plans to develop a mixed-use devlopment on the site. In planning phase. Early Preliminary drawings and tentative plans call for a large office tower onsite. Timeline unknown. No updates on this project since the start of the previous thread. There has been no recent news regarding this project.



Hardage Group Redevelopment
http://www.thehardagegroup.com/index..._lake_city.htm
Proposed
Location: 400 S 800 E



DA Building
Proposed
Location: NE Corner 500 S and Main
Other: County has purchased the parcel at this location and will most likely be selling the former parcel at 600 S and State SW Corner
Image is from the formerly proposed location, no image for 500 S and Main has been released.


What is still proposed? what has moved forward? What is the status on all these?

Are there any new proposals?

[Makid]

What I think would help SLC to build up faster would be to offer partnerships with developers. Now, this isn't as bad as it may seem.

We know that by the end of construction, Commercial buildings are leased at 85% or greater. We have seen this with the last many projects. Unfortunately, with banks needing 40% to 60% pre-leased before committing to a loan, this makes it hard for SLC to compete against the suburbs where they can spec build.

151 has been in the works for a few years but I do expect that 650 Main and 655 West Temple to be completed first if not a few others.

My thoughts for partnerships would be as follows. SLC could offer tax rebates or tax incentives for up to 20 years. 10 years for Commercial 12 stories or less, 15 years 13 to 22 stories and 20 years 23 stories and above. The incentives/rebates would be up to 100% of the property tax increase based on the tax level 1 year before construction. Residential incentives would be 10 - 15 stories get 10 years, 16 to 20 stories get 15 years and 21 stories or more get up to 20 years.

Next, SLC should provide Commercial developments of at least 350,000 sq ft with free hive passes. 5 per 1,000 sq ft. This would allow developers to reduce the parking needs while also offering incentives for businesses to locate within their development.

SLC should also create a REC (Relocation & Expansion Council). The main job of the council is to work with and for companies to find out and resolve the biggest hurdles for relocating & expanding within SLC and particularly within Downtown SLC.

Additionally zoning should be updated for all areas within North Temple - 7th South and 3rd West - 3rd East. This area should remove maximum height limits for both corner and mid-block sites. Minimum heights would be increased to 150' for all sites where a development is not in the pipeline (documents provided to the city for permits/requests, etc.). The only maximums will be based on type (Residential and Commercial) and will be in Street Frontage (100' for Residential and 150' for Commercial). This could be increased for either when going through a full design review to a maximum single side frontage of (150' for Residential and 250' for Commercial).

Impact fees from all downtown projects would be put to improving transit within downtown (bus/rail) and sidewalk improvements (widening and landscaping/trees) as well as Utilities as needed. May need State approvals to use Impact fees for Transit updates.

Excluding the zoning, the increased foot traffic from both Commercial and Residential developments would keep this as Revenue Neutral if not Revenue positive. This would be used to help provide low or 0 interest loans to help additional relocating and expanding downtown.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

but... they planned to demolish it for parking and an elevator saving only the facade. So yeah it would be expensive given the planned use. I think this is a good thing. I would rather have the regent Hotel and a renovated felt building than the regent hotel/parking garage and the felt buildings facade.

I thought they were going to only save the facade at first, but after reading the plan that is not correct. They were going to use the existing building. They were only going to remove the east wall and use the brick from that wall on the inside. The first floor of the felt building was going to be the hotel lobby, bar, and lounge. The second floor was going to be meeting space. They were going to build a car stacker on the additional property that would have come with the building along Plumb Alley.

[delts145]

Update Development Bump from Compilation Thread:

Downtown Update - 4th West Apartments Officially Open

Isaac Riddle Reports - Full Article @ http://www.buildingsaltlake.com/4th-...ficially-open/

...As has become the trend, 4th West opened in sections with tenants moving into the north wing last fall. The mixed-use residential building is large, occupying the bulk of the site’s 7.3
acres. The five-story building (six if you count the rooftop fitness center and event space), holds nearly 500 residential units...Half of 4th West’s residential units are two bedrooms, with
the remaining units a mix of studio and one-bedroom apartments. Based on bedroom count, if each bedroom was occupied by just one person there would be 746 people living in 4th West
when the building is fully leased out; that’s over 100 people per acre...Vegh describes the 4th West Apartments as an urban resort. Apart from the bar, most of the amenities are centralized
at the rooftop level. The large pool, with uninterrupted views of the downtown skyline and the Wasatch Mountains, is surrounded by cabanas, the type common in resort-style hotels. The
rooftop level also includes a full-service fitness center and outdoor sport court that overlooks downtown. Additional rooftop amenities include a test kitchen and large clubhouse that can be
rented out for events...

...The development also represents a new reality for Salt Lake City, a booming economy that is bringing in out of state workers that are used to paying higher rents than the locals. England
estimates that about 70 percent of the 4th West’s tenants are from out of state...Rents depend on the unit type, of which 4th West offers 16 different unit designs. Rents range from $1,250
for a studio to $4,810 for a deluxe two-bedroom apartment...


http://i0.wp.com/www.buildingsaltlake.com


View of the downtown Salt Lake skyline from the 4th West Apartments roof deck. Photo by Isaac Riddle.

...There are 761 residential units under construction within a block of the 4th West Apartments. The project is part of the larger Hardware District that will add 409 residential units directly
south of 4th West. Just a half-block to the east on North Temple is the site of the under-construction, Skyhouse Apartments, a six-story building with 240 residential units. Just west of
4th West, on the 300 North block of 500 West, is the North Fourth project, a six-story, 112 unit affordable housing development...

[IMG][/IMG]
Rooftop sport court at the 4th West Apartments. Photo by Isaac Riddle.


http://4thwest.com/


http://4thwest.com/


http://4thwest.com/


http://www.greystar.com/


http://www.greystar.com/


http://4thwest.com/


Sports Bar

http://cdn.homes.com/


To The Immediate South

Downtown Update - Hardware Village

Mike Gorrell for the Salt Lake Tribune

A development just north of SLC’s downtown is betting on Hardware http://www.sltrib.com/home/5454142-1...-north-of-slcs

A couple of dozen construction workers hustled about Wednesday in the subterranean foundation for the next building being erected in the face-lift of 400 West north of
North Temple.

They're laying the groundwork for what will be part of Hardware District, a $275 million mixed-use project that SALT Development is building on the west side of 400 West between
200 North and North Temple (around the historic Salt Lake Hardware Building).

The just-emerging seven-story building, along with another seven-story structure directly to the west, which is much farther along, will contain 466 residential units — from one- and
two-bedroom units to much larger brownstones on the ground level.

To the south will be two office buildings. One will be a 10-story tower, with seven floors of offices (200,00 square feet) on top of three levels of parking (800 stalls).

The second is projected to be four stories, made of heavy timber and glass to establish a creative ambiance throughout its 60,000 square feet of space.

"Hardware District is the perfect complement to 4th West Apartments," he said, "as it provides a sense of community with first-class living" and amenities such as barbecue pits,
a pool, spas, a fitness center and a library lounge with a bar and a two-story waterfall.

The first Hardware District residential units are expected to hit the market in February. The opening of Hardware West is scheduled to introduce 48 studio apartments, 134 one-bedroom
units and 83 two-bedroom units.

"The ground floor will have 37 two-story brownstone town homes averaging 1,400 square feet," Vegh said. The five brownstones in Hardware East will be about 1,500 square feet,
he added, noting that most units in both buildings will have 10-foot ceilings.

They are scheduled to open in August 2018.


















Issac Riddle Reports - Construction Reaches The Halfway Mark - http://www.buildingsaltlake.com/firs...-halfway-mark/


Source: BuildingSaltLake.com


Source: BuildingSaltLake.com


http://www.buildingsaltlake.com/firs...-halfway-mark/


Construction is underway on the Hardware East building. Photo by Isaac Riddle.


The 4th West Apartments to the left, and pictured on the right, the under construction Hardware West portion of the massive Hardware Village. The vacant lot pictured
up front is the site of a proposed four-story office building. Photo by Isaac Riddle.


...And Immediately to the West, on the opposite side of the commuter rail

Downtown Update - North Fourth Apartments

Isaac Riddle Reports - Full Article @ http://www.buildingsaltlake.com/upda...ects-underway/

The first phase of the North Fourth Apartments, on the 300 North block of 500 West, is nearly framed out. The first phase consists of a six-story building with 112 one and
two-bedroom apartments, 81 of which will be income restricted units that will include a mix of units available for residents earning between 25 and 50 percent of the Area Median
Income (AMI). The project is directly west of the 4th West and Hardware District development, the largest market-rate residential project underway in Salt Lake City. The North
Fourth is just over a block away from from the North Temple/Guadalupe TRAX and FrontRunner Stations.


https://i1.wp.com/www.buildingsaltlake.com


The northeast corner of the first phase of the North Fourth Apartments. Photo by Isaac Riddle.

.



.

[San Diego-Honolulu]

I agree, you guys are a mess. You all are killing the Salt Lake City forum internally. From whining about the homeless people, to why Denver doesn't respect you. It's getting old and it's obviously becoming sad when other people come on here to say the same thing. You guys have a forum full of whiners and frankly the Salt Lake City forum has become a place that's not fun to follow. Also the attitudes of some forumer's and their comments on here really have become buzz kills. The Salt Lake City forum used to be one of the most fun cities to follow along with Austin. But for the last year the Salt Lake City forum has taken a nosedive.

[airhero]

^^^It's not all of us. I've really enjoyed living in Salt Lake and watching all the new developments go up. I pass by several projects going up several times a day. I think it's fine to have expectations, but many are setting their sights for the future far too high. A highrise boom a la Austin is not going to happen. We mayyy get a CCH and maybe 1-2 office buildings and possibly some highrise residential/hotel/whatever in the next decade, but don't count on any project until it's broken ground (and maybe not even then). But like I say, there are a lot of decent things going up and Salt Lakers who complain about the lack of developments are annoying. Salt Lake is doing better than the majority of small to mid-sized cities.

I for one think it's fine to talk about the crime and homeless stuff and the issues with suburban sprawl and Utah's perception problems, as long as we keep the whininess to a minimum. If people are tired of seeing all of that here, maybe we should start some new threads

[airhero]

Originally Posted by delts145

This is the first I can recall seeing renderings for this. It looks goodish. I didn't know this project was happening until I saw it under construction when I was at 4th West Apartments, and I was pleasantly surprised.

North Sixth is my favorite design of all the recent apartment buildings, I'm hoping North Fourth turns out as well.

Speaking of, isn't there supposed to be a phase 2 for North Sixth?

[Jiffy]

Originally Posted by airhero

I for one think it's fine to talk about the crime and homeless stuff and the issues with suburban sprawl and Utah's perception problems, as long as we keep the whininess to a minimum. If people are tired of seeing all of that here, maybe we should start some new threads

I think its was fine talking about all these things too until it became really the only things that were really talked about. And it was the same exact stuff over and over and over and over for who knows how long now. How many times have we reread the same exact crap on homeless people day in day out just differently worded? And it always seems to be a lingering factor of what outsiders opinions and perceptions are. And all the suburban sprawl problems. Its not that its bad to talk about these things, its just they are all getting so old and almost irritating to read anymore. I'm not calling anyone out as I fully understand that I have participated in some of these non stop figure 8 loops. But I do understand why its almost embarrassing to be on the Salt Lake page now.

[Jiffy]

I think my absolute favorite thing about Utah is Temple Square, That place is impressive. Sure the mall is cool and there are other little stuff but Temple Square is the only thing that no other city has, and its amazing to walk around.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

It looks like they are fixing the discoloration issue on Vivant Arena. This makes me happy. It has been driving me nuts for a while. I’m not sure if they are sandblasting the building or what, but they are destroying the sign in the process. I’m assuming they will reface the sign. You would think they would take it down and sandblast under it if they were going to replace it.


June 19th


August 16th

Well they compleatly refaced the Vivint sign today... So I’m guessing that means they are not going to fix the rest of the discoloration on the building... not sure why they stoped there. They really seem to be half-assing the outside of this building... makes me wonder what the inside will be like.

They cut the lobby extension on the NE corner by about one third. The roof is still the same size but the enclosed area is much smaller then on the original renderings... so there is just a lot of overhang now. They also got rid of the curved screen at the NE entrance... it’s just plane old glass doors now.

I wonder why they are cutting so many corners.

[TonyAnderson]

Originally Posted by grasscom

^ from my sample size of people I know, most people in Utah don't tend to be 'big city' folks. I think that tends to be a huge factor of why downtown is not bigger. Everyone in this state seems to be scared of cities unless they are sprawled out into nonsense. And everyone else seems to have a million kids and need big houses. I like the larger apartment and condo size ideas mentioned from before. But I just don't think people here will ever want to live in the city. (not that Salt Lake is even that big but still.) I think that because of Hollywood and cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, and Detroit, people look at those and think that all cities are gang infested and drug ridden. When in reality there are a lot of amazing downtown's to live in.

If people can get cheap houses they're going to. They can't anymore - so we're seeing an interesting change in dynamic in the Wasatch Front. That's why there's large apartment projects going up everywhere, especially in the SLC-ish area.

And to me the problem isn't with the suburbanites as much as it is with the actual 'city' people. Everyone in SLC seems like they have their head in the mountains with little care for the actual city. Most of them are nimbys themselves who would rather live in the avenues in a house than anywhere near the urban cores. We need more people who are champions for cities in Utah. The mountains will always be there.

[TonyAnderson]

I like this project.





My Flickr

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by Makid

What I think would help SLC to build up faster would be to offer partnerships with developers. Now, this isn't as bad as it may seem.

We know that by the end of construction, Commercial buildings are leased at 85% or greater. We have seen this with the last many projects. Unfortunately, with banks needing 40% to 60% pre-leased before committing to a loan, this makes it hard for SLC to compete against the suburbs where they can spec build.

151 has been in the works for a few years but I do expect that 650 Main and 655 West Temple to be completed first if not a few others.

My thoughts for partnerships would be as follows. SLC could offer tax rebates or tax incentives for up to 20 years. 10 years for Commercial 12 stories or less, 15 years 13 to 22 stories and 20 years 23 stories and above. The incentives/rebates would be up to 100% of the property tax increase based on the tax level 1 year before construction. Residential incentives would be 10 - 15 stories get 10 years, 16 to 20 stories get 15 years and 21 stories or more get up to 20 years.

Next, SLC should provide Commercial developments of at least 350,000 sq ft with free hive passes. 5 per 1,000 sq ft. This would allow developers to reduce the parking needs while also offering incentives for businesses to locate within their development.

SLC should also create a REC (Relocation & Expansion Council). The main job of the council is to work with and for companies to find out and resolve the biggest hurdles for relocating & expanding within SLC and particularly within Downtown SLC.

Additionally zoning should be updated for all areas within North Temple - 7th South and 3rd West - 3rd East. This area should remove maximum height limits for both corner and mid-block sites. Minimum heights would be increased to 150' for all sites where a development is not in the pipeline (documents provided to the city for permits/requests, etc.). The only maximums will be based on type (Residential and Commercial) and will be in Street Frontage (100' for Residential and 150' for Commercial). This could be increased for either when going through a full design review to a maximum single side frontage of (150' for Residential and 250' for Commercial).

Impact fees from all downtown projects would be put to improving transit within downtown (bus/rail) and sidewalk improvements (widening and landscaping/trees) as well as Utilities as needed. May need State approvals to use Impact fees for Transit updates.

Excluding the zoning, the increased foot traffic from both Commercial and Residential developments would keep this as Revenue Neutral if not Revenue positive. This would be used to help provide low or 0 interest loans to help additional relocating and expanding downtown.

This is a well thought out proposal. Intelligent, and would work if implemented.

On another note; Believe it or not, some decision makers do read posts here. I have always been a fan of quality commercial development. Having lived in Chicago, I was a bit spoiled. Living in Utah has made me feel naked at times. It's very different than what I am used to. I do like bigger cities.

Why not move? Because my business is here. The tax benefits currently are much better than many larger metro areas.

I suppose in my aberrant way, I hope to affect change in SLC city for a bigger city feel. I know that SLC will never be a Chicago or LA. It does not need to nor should be. Yet it has too small of a downtown for a CSA of it's size.

Projections are to add another 3,000,000 people along the Wasatch Front. Where are you going to put them? In single family homes? The mindset here often baffles me and I make fun of it.

So, feel free to call me out when I take pot shots. As long as I'm a resident, I'll call for change in my own annoying way. 😝

[Utah_Dave]

I don't really doubt the population projections for the Wasatch front over the next 30 years but I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around it. We will face all the same difficulties any other city and area would face but we also face some unique challenges specific to our area and I'm afraid the quality of life could really be lowered substantially. First is traffic, our geography produces a lot of bottle necks and I am skeptical that mass transit can overcome these challenges. Next will obviously be air pollution levels. Here again this will be a rather extreme obstacle to overcome for our basin geography. Next is water, I don't have enough knowledge to speak about this topic but I have no doubt it is another massive challenge. I foresee a future where our water usage will result in a dry Great Salt Lake which will add to our dust/air pollution and also generate additional heat in the near vacinity. Then the mountains will receive less lake affect snow which will further exacerbate the drinking water for the salt lake area. Im hoping there will be enough technological advances to minimize these problems but I don't foresee that happening. Southern California faces some very similar problems but I think our pollution problem will be more difficult to overcome. And Frankly I think people put up with traffic and other issue in So Cal simply because of the weather and the ocean, 2 thinks we lack. This is definitely a Debbie downer post but I'm hoping it generates a new conversation and I really hope to be proven wrong. Give me your ideas.

Thanks fellas

[Jiffy]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Well they compleatly refaced the Vivint sign today... So I’m guessing that means they are not going to fix the rest of the discoloration on the building... not sure why they stoped there. They really seem to be half-assing the outside of this building... makes me wonder what the inside will be like.

They cut the lobby extension on the NE corner by about one third. The roof is still the same size but the enclosed area is much smaller then on the original renderings... so there is just a lot of overhang now. They also got rid of the curved screen at the NE entrance... it’s just plane old glass doors now.

I wonder why they are cutting so many corners.

I agree. And honestly, I think it looks so much better before they did all that. You would think they would have gone all out with this but instead they have made somethings even less attractive

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by San Diego-Honolulu

I agree, you guys are a mess. You all are killing the Salt Lake City forum internally. From whining about the homeless people, to why Denver doesn't respect you. It's getting old and it's obviously becoming sad when other people come on here to say the same thing. You guys have a forum full of whiners and frankly the Salt Lake City forum has become a place that's not fun to follow. Also the attitudes of some forumer's and their comments on here really have become buzz kills. The Salt Lake City forum used to be one of the most fun cities to follow along with Austin. But for the last year the Salt Lake City forum has taken a nosedive.

I agree, and as a long-time lurker and only recent frequent poster, I've really been trying hard not to give this forum a break again. I am very passionate about this city and what it could become. It has a lot of qualities that are very attractive. It seems to mostly be people who have never been here, and people who are from here and who either have lived here most or all of their lives, who seem to be so negative about this city, and frankly the attitude on this forum is pissing me off and making it hard to stick around. I stick around because I at least see the passion and know that I want to see similar things as many of you guys, I just choose to focus on the positive, and more than anything because I have chosen urban design as my career path.

I'm all for putting the focus back on development talk. And despite what anybody may say, there is more than enough development to talk about!

[Jiffy]

Originally Posted by Utah_Dave

I don't really doubt the population projections for the Wasatch front over the next 30 years but I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around it. We will face all the same difficulties any other city and area would face but we also face some unique challenges specific to our area and I'm afraid the quality of life could really be lowered substantially. First is traffic, our geography produces a lot of bottle necks and I am skeptical that mass transit can overcome these challenges. Next will obviously be air pollution levels. Here again this will be a rather extreme obstacle to overcome for our basin geography. Next is water, I don't have enough knowledge to speak about this topic but I have no doubt it is another massive challenge. I foresee a future where our water usage will result in a dry Great Salt Lake which will add to our dust/air pollution and also generate additional heat in the near vacinity. Then the mountains will receive less lake affect snow which will further exacerbate the drinking water for the salt lake area. Im hoping there will be enough technological advances to minimize these problems but I don't foresee that happening. Southern California faces some very similar problems but I think our pollution problem will be more difficult to overcome. And Frankly I think people put up with traffic and other issue in So Cal simply because of the weather and the ocean, 2 thinks we lack. This is definitely a Debbie downer post but I'm hoping it generates a new conversation and I really hope to be proven wrong. Give me your ideas.

Thanks fellas

I honestly cannot see quality of life in the valley after all that growth there being anything but terrible unless there is a drastic change, and that change needs to be now. I'm not sure how it works but the state or county (if this is legal?) needs to step in and not give the cities anymore allowable land to continue expanding. If my understanding is correct the state issues X amount of land to cities to grow until an obstacle or another city interferes with available land that is allowed to be given to the cities. Obstacles can be mountains or reservations, Ect. And the larger the city then the more land the state or county will allow the city to expand, smaller the city in theory gets less land to develop. (I really don't know much on this subject and hope I'm not losing anyone). But what if the State steps in and says this is the last of develop-able land we will allow you to build and develop/grow. That would hopefully force all the cities in the Valley to become more dense and redevelop and fill in empty parcels in the current land they developed already. Making all the cities that want continued growth and job growth to continue then they must create more dense projects to allow space for more growth and jobs. And eventually go more vertical in hot spots like downtown Salt Lake.

The state could also use as its excuses to do this by stating that this will save wildlife, preserve the states public land, and show the difference in costs it will be saving the city when they don't have to keep spending wasteful money on infrastructure, sewer/pipes/power/ect. and how much more of a sustainable city it will become, less pollution/more public transit/more people living close to jobs/walkablity/ and so on.

Adding 3 million people way in the future at there current trends of developing is not going to be sustainable. It would be like Phoenix but worse. Because there are only two ways sprawl can really keep happening. And that is north and south. And I don't think anyone wants to drive an hour in a half to get to downtown from their end of the metro. (without traffic).

Last rant I promise- I also hate hate hate people in Downtowns that turn down developments or complain about mountain views. If you want a mountain view then freakin move. There are 'cities' that are trying to become Cities but these people halt growth left and right or keep a roof on maximum height in certain areas all because of their precious mountain view. Denver from what I understand has the same problem, if people there want a mountain view then move to the west metro where the mountains are. I also cannot stand NIMBYS living close to downtowns and then complain about growth and density-then don't live in the center of large cities. Gosh people can be dumb. Haha sorry I'm done getting that off my chest.

[Utah_Dave]

Perhaps an impact fee could be created for some northern counties that would vary depending the density of a development or home. It would need to be implemented across most of northern Utah to be effective.

Just a thought