I am sorry, but it really seems to me we are simply trading a dirty old turd for a new uninspired turd.
Would it honestly hurt them to use a few more lighting effects / signs along Granville and Robson?? It comes off as a Soviet Union era shopping centre, haha!
I am sorry, but it really seems to me we are simply trading a dirty old turd for a new uninspired turd.
Would it honestly hurt them to use a few more lighting effects / signs along Granville and Robson?? It comes off as a Soviet Union era shopping centre, haha!
I know what you mean, and you've rightfully mentioned this before. However, I think that very possibly the owners themselves will want to light it up a bit to attract more customers. Making it a bit sparklier would be in their own interests, and that's all that counts in the world of business.
The renders are the jumping-off point, but the fine points are not cast in stone. There may be room for change. Stay optimistic.
This has sailed the UDP already 11 to1, see minutes below
Quote:
EVALUATION: SUPPORT (11-1)
Introduction: Dale Morgan, Development Planner, introduced the proposal for an extensive retrofitting of the existing Sears building involving interior and exterior recladding of the existing department store from the basement to level seven. As well the applicant is asking for a change of use from retail to office from levels four to seven and interior alterations include two atria on the office levels and the addition of elevators. Mr. Morgan described the site characteristics noting that the building is part of the Pacific Centre Mall which extends three city blocks from Robson Street northward to Pender
Street. It connects with the TD Tower on the northwest corner of the site and the Canada Line Station on the plaza, with connections to the Expo Line at the lower mall level. He also described the context for the area, noting that four streets surrounding the site are important and unique streets in the downtown district.
Mr. Morgan described the history of the building. The architect for the site was César Pelli and was built in 1973 as an iconic building for its time and place. In 2007, Pacific Centre Mall was rezoned to CD-1 when the Canada Line Station was added to increase the permitted density. For this proposal staff have advised the applicant on the following key aspects: transparency and connectivity; public realm repair and enhancements including grade resolution; pedestrian scale and greater articulation and expression to reduce
monolithic massing and blankness of the expression.
Advice from the Panel on this application is sought on the following:
1. Urban Design: The block long site occupies a key location at the city’s centre surrounded by four important streets, each with its own unique character that the building needs to respond to. Is the urban fit in this context a good one and what suggestions if any could improve it?
2. Massing and Expression: Does the proposed massing and material expression break down the monolithic blankness of the existing building on all four sides?
3. Public Realm/ Urban Repair: The existing state of the public realm that surrounds Block 52 is one of dysfunction and disrepair, lacking pedestrian amenity and interest, transparency and connectivity from the street as well as numerous physical & visual barriers that impede ease of pedestrian movement. Have these negative conditions been successfully addressed? What other aspects of the public realm could be improved?
4. Sustainability: The application is proposing to achieve LEED Gold. Panel comments are requested with particular regard to the proposed glazing systems and opportunities for a green roof.
Mr. Morgan took questions from the Panel.
• Applicant’s Introductory Comments: James Cheng, Architect, further described the proposal. He noted that it was a unique project and they see it as an opportunity to do urban repair. The building is in an important location and for fifty years it has been an important façade. He said they believe that all four sides need four different responses.
There are existing stairs from the parking garage that can’t be changed, so they tried to strip away everything they could on the ground floor to make it more transparent. He said they feel the most sustainable part is the structure, so they are rehabilitating the building into new uses. They are keeping the existing structure as is, and replacing the skin.
Mr. Cheng noted that every street brings a different challenge to the project. Georgia Street has a lot of haphazard insertions into the plaza, so they worked with the landscape architect to help improve the plaza. They first thing they tried to do was to expand the public realm which helped them create a new entrance. The second thing they tried to do was to make an upper and lower plaza. Part of the reason for changing the rotunda was to
respond to the plaza changes and to create a way to address the new office entrance and the retail space. Granville Street has a long façade and so at the corner of Robson and Granville Streets, which is a high profile corner, they created a corner piece that announces the entrance to Nordstrom’s. A lot of work was done along Robson Street which will be completely transparent, other than one existing exit stair. They were able to create
another entrance into Nordstrom’s on the corner. Along Howe Street will be a restaurant that will be a prominent feature with a great view across to the Robson Square. Mr. Cheng said they wanted to use the interventions along Howe Street to break up the big scale of the building and express the office component. The roof will have two light wells for natural daylighting so no internal space is more than 45 feet to the glass, reducing the
amount of artificial lighting. He added that they didn’t touch the roof other than to repair it. They investigated adding a green roof but felt that the added weight could not be supported. Mr. Cheng described the material palette noting the colours were picked to complement the existing TD Tower.
Chris Phillips, Landscape Architect, described the landscape plans noting that the Granville and Georgia Streets corner is an important space. It has great sun access but has poor pedestrian access and poor use right now. Putting the retail entry at Granville Street makes for a huge change to the nature of the plaza. The lower plaza will have seating at the edges with vegetation. Around the perimeter of the site they will be improving the paving and pulling out the driving lane on Robson Street to make a more generous size
sidewalk.
The applicant team took questions from the Panel.
• Panel’s Consensus on Key Aspects Needing Improvement:
• Design Development to further improve the public realm, in particular the northeastplaza and Howe Street;
• Design development to improve transparency along the Howe Street façade;
• Design development to bring added prominence to key entries;
• Design development to the massing along Granville Street to add more vertical emphasis to offset the monolithic and horizontal massing;
• Design development to provide more variety of expression;
• Design development to develop the roofscape in a manner consistent with sustainability objectives;
• Design development to the north plaza in terms of the office entry and the façade component;
• Design development to the plaza area and landscaping;
• Consider adding a lighting element in the plaza to help animate the facades;
• Consider reviewing the bike rack location;
• Consider the façade system in order to meet energy goals;
• Design development to improve the roofscape;
• Design development to increase the greenery on the Howe Street façade;
• Design development to further enrich the ground plane.
• Related Commentary: The Panel supported the proposal and thought it was an interesting and challenging project.
The Panel agreed that it is a very important project and supported the notion of retaining and revitalizing the building. They also supported the applicant’s approach and thought the shell and envelope of the building was a total transformation. The Panel also supported the reskinning of the building from level two up as it will enrich the building and respond to the different urban contexts.
The Panel found that there were some challenges with the ground plane. They realized that there were some things that can’t be changed but could be improved. They thought that the Howe Street and Granville Street corners had been very much improved with the amount of transparency.
The plaza at the corner of West Georgia Street and Granville Street was a bit of a concern for the Panel. Although the applicant has tried to resolve the grade change it was still not an exciting and successful corner. A number of Panel members thought there could be more done with respect to public art and lighting. One Panel member wondered if the bike racks were in too prominent a location and suggested the applicant take another look.
Another Panel member suggested recycling the existing cladding and creating a piece of public art that would involve lighting.
The Panel thought the office entry was a bit of a concern. It seems that the building doesn’t have a good place to enter as it is not easily identifiable. They wanted to see a stronger emphasis on the entry. For the most part the Panel didn’t object to the rotunda element disappearing but thought the vertical element that replaces it could be stronger.
One Panel member suggested finding a Canadian stone rather than importing it from Portugal. Another suggestion from the Panel was with respect to the canopies. They thought they were an important element but lacked excitement and significance.
The Panel felt that a lot more could be done in the public realm along Howe Street. They thought more transparency could be done as well as improving the massing expression. One Panel member thought it could be dressed up with a coffee shop. Another Panel member suggested there were opportunities to use light and art to make it more exciting. One Panel member noted the difficult office entrance and department store entrance off West
Georgia Street and their relationship to the plaza and thought they set up a geometry that didn’t relate to anything else. He noted that there is a long walk to the elevators, and that Howe Street is almost the better entrance.
The Panel was disappointed with the sustainability strategy and felt that the energy modeling might be falling short. Although there are vertical extensions and solar shading devices on the building which will make for interesting patterning and texture, the Panel thought they would have modest effect on energy performance. They would also like to see more greenery on the building with one Panel member suggested adding planting to theterrace at the restaurant level. A number of Panel members suggested adding a green roof or at least some interesting patterning and also adding solar panels. As well, some of the Panel thought there needed to be research done to find the right glass type for the building. One Panel member suggested using a heat recovery system considering the amount of retail and office on the site.
• Applicant’s Response: Mr. Cheng said the Panel had given them a good perspective for the building. He said that they originally thought it should be a background building but they could push it more at the Granville and West Georgia Streets corner.
I still think the decision not to integrate the VCC station entrance while doing all of this over work is a regret. Getting off of topic, but I think Granville Station's entrances within and as part of the buildings above it is a great example to follow. However, even though yes, we have the nice underground connections to that VCC concourse, the main entrance sticks up into the plaza like a public bathroom would. I would have rather the building was extended far enough to envelop the station.
EDIT:
Looking at the blueprint again, I do agree that that connection from the station concourse through to the new stores in the basement is very good. I still think that the standalone station entrance is ugly though!
Noticed on the siteplan that at the corner of Granville and Robson there is a note about the SkyTrain emergency exit stair structure. The siteplan reads: "new flush hatch cover for existing exit stairs." Pages four and five of the renderings also show that SkyTrain emergency exit stair structure is removed, much of the street furniture and utility poles are also absent in the renderings.
From the facts page on the project website I noticed the following bullet points about the demographics of Pacific Centre shoppers and its downtown location.
Quote:
Data provide through an intercept study of 500 shoppers in the spring of 2012
Sales: $1,558 per square foot (July 2012)
Market Potential: $9.3 Billion
Traffic: 18 Million per year
Downtown Vancouver is home to 87,975 residences with a daytime population of 1.02 Million
Source: 2012 CF National Research
What jumped out to me was that the downtown daytime population is apparently a touch over a million people. That sounds very high to me. Anyone else?
__________________ VANCOUVER | Beautiful, Multicultural | Canada's Pacific Metropolis
Last edited by SFUVancouver; Nov 16, 2012 at 8:25 PM.
Noticed on the siteplan that at the corner of Granville and Robson there is a note about the SkyTrain emergency exit stair structure. The siteplan reads: "new flush hatch cover for existing exit stairs." Pages four and five of the renderings also show that SkyTrain emergency exit stair structure is removed, much of the street furniture and utility poles are also absent in the renderings.
From the facts page on the project website I noticed the following bullet points about the demographics of Pacific Centre shoppers and its downtown location.
What jumped out to me was that the downtown daytime population is apparently a touch over a million people. That sounds very high to me. Anyone else?
Yah, that's way too high. I'm sure that's the city of Vancouver. There's no way the population of downtown itself goes up by more than 11 times each day.
Agreed, that would mean the entire CoV population plus 2/3rds.
*******
Noticed on the floorplans that the old rotunda is outlined. So the squared off protusion replacing it will be "off centre" compared to where the rotunda was (i.e. narrower). Also note the exit stairs to Granville & Howe.
In addition to being an aesthetic letdown which completely snubs its urban context (i.e., the Granville Entertainment District), this design fails to address any of the fundamental pedestrian shortcomings of the old building. All of the old problems remain: blank walls, absent retail, parkade ramps using up vital sidewalk space, etc. This design, in effect, does nothing more than swap a blank opaque wall for a blank transparent wall (and, even then, only in some areas), from the perspective of the pedestrian. Nothing that made the Granville/Robson/Howe sides a flawed pedestrian experience has been ameliorated.
Last edited by Prometheus; Nov 23, 2012 at 8:16 PM.
In addition to being an aesthetic letdown which completely snubs its urban context (i.e., the Granville Entertainment District), this design fails to address any of the fundamental pedestrian shortcomings of the old building. All of the old problems remain: blank walls, absent retail, parkade ramps using up vital sidewalk space, etc. This design, in effect, does nothing more than swap a blank opaque wall for a blank transparent wall (and, even then, only in some areas), from the perspective of the pedestrian. Nothing that made the Granville/Robson/Howe sides a flawed pedestrian experience has been ameliorated.
How absolutely true. It's pathetic. Were it not possible to blame this on the lack of $$$$$, one could say that this is almost a deliberate insult. I feel really pissed of about the total lack of originality, lack of colour, and lack of street retail.....
How does one incorporate street front retail into a department store facade?
Can we use some common sense when critiquing this please? I do agree it is boring on the whole but You either get a downtown flagship Nordstrom or street front retail on Granville, not both.
How does one incorporate street front retail into a department store facade?
Can we use some common sense when critiquing this please? I do agree it is boring on the whole but You either get a downtown flagship Nordstrom or street front retail on Granville, not both.
Quite easily, it's done in many over here in Europe. There usually are "boutiques" for the higher-end brands on the ground floor that have entrances from the street and from inside the department store.
I would have preferred if Cadillac Fairview had sliced off 2 levels of the Granville side of the Nordstrom space for lease as streetfront retail - but that's a business decision, not a design decision. I still think that Nordstrom and Granville Street are inconsistent with each other.
Nordstrom has already stated that its main entrance will be the Robson & Howe entrance.
In terms of the design -
- Nice to see the wider sidewalk on Robson. The removal of the lay-by is fine (Robson traffic will be curtailed with the street closure to the west. BUT - why didn't they fill in the alcove to bring it into interior space? It's still a dead zone and there's one big column there that acts as a barrier. The Robson Howe coner at grade looks very much like the existing form. Alternatively, they could have kept the alcove and moved the store entrance back to the original Eaton's location along Robson rather than on the corner. The corner entrance is unwarranted and adds to congestion on the corner. i.e. Hudson's Bay doesn't have a corner entrance and does fine.
- Restaurant facing Robson Square! Nice.
- Disappointed to see the chamfered corner appear at Robson & Granville. Like the Howe corner, that's inconistent with the straight edges of the building and is just pandering to shoppers to shorten walking distances.
- Looks like there will be a mezzanine inside the rotunda entrance with broad stairs down to the main ground floor level (which is at the Robson elevation) I don't see an escalator on that plan, so hopefully they won't install an ugly wheelchair lift at the main entrance.
- Extending the Granville elevation of the Plaza will eat into the "event space" on that plaza (as does the new office entrance). Expect to see less programming on the plaza as a result.
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