PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

The problem is that those very lucrative taxable incomes are filling the coffers of NYC or NJ instead of Pittsburgh area governments. Those elite managers are not spending their ample disposable incomes on Pittsburgh goods and services. They are not investing in Pittsburgh organizations and charities. They are not patronizing Pittsburgh museums, orchestras and ballets. Etc.

And if the elite management in not living in your community... they are probably less likely to make corporate decisions that benefit your community.

Evergrey, you sound eerily similar to a Denver forumer who use to talk about the very same things a number of years ago! But seriously, while I understand and appreciate where you're coming from, you're acting as if many of these F500 companies are actually paying a whole hell of a lot in taxes, anyhow. Let's face it, at least based upon recent news reports, they're by and large not paying much, if at all.

As for making decisions that tend to help their headquarters city or region, well, I guess I have less faith in corporations than you do. Boards and Directors make decisions based upon profit, profit and profit, not based upon some sense of corporate generosity and altruism to their headquarters location. Yes, we can all name a few companies here and there that really DO seem to make a huge difference in their community, but they're very few and far between.

Besides, if USX decided to go to Southpointe, Cranberry, Monroeville, or somewhere else in the region, nothing would change.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Living in Pittsburgh wasn't a problem for Alain Belda's predecessor... the St Louis-born, Anchorage-raised, Fresno-educated Paul O'Neill.

Ok, fine I guess anyone raised in Anchorage and educated in Fresno would find Pittsburgh to be exhillirating!

[daviderik]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Ok, fine I guess anyone raised in Anchorage and educated in Fresno would find Pittsburgh to be exhillirating!

I didn't much like that smart comment. Pittsburgh isn't New York. Paris. or Chicago. Nor does it want to be... It's just a shame some dicks can't see what this town has to offer.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by daviderik

I didn't much like that smart comment. Pittsburgh isn't New York. Paris. or Chicago. Nor does it want to be... It's just a shame some dicks can't see what this town has to offer.

How nice of the newbie to call a Pittsburgh area SSP "old timer" a dick. Welcome to SSP, I'm sure you'll make all sorts of friends!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[daviderik]

Originally Posted by glowrock

How nice of the newbie to call a Pittsburgh area SSP "old timer" a dick. Welcome to SSP, I'm sure you'll make all sorts of friends!

Aaron (Glowrock)

The CEO's not him. I don't know the "old timer". But When someone says something about pittsburgh. I'll throw my 2 cents in. Sorry if you were confused. I should have been more clear.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

The problem is that those very lucrative taxable incomes are filling the coffers of NYC or NJ instead of Pittsburgh area governments. Those elite managers are not spending their ample disposable incomes on Pittsburgh goods and services. They are not investing in Pittsburgh organizations and charities. They are not patronizing Pittsburgh museums, orchestras and ballets. Etc.

And if the elite management in not living in your community... they are probably less likely to make corporate decisions that benefit your community.

That's how I feel about top paid executives who vacate the region for the "more appropriate" metropolitan areas.

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Trust me, no CEO's except maybe ones who grew up here want to live in a 2nd tier city. If you are making 10+ million a year or more including stock options and whatever else, you want to live in one of the few cities that can support such wealth and you don't stick out like a sore thumb: NYC, LA, San Fran, London, Paris, etc.

Fine, they can step down and go work for some other company with a corporate presence in New York, LA, San Fran or elsewhere. Or, they could even leave and start up their own precious company to be CEO of just so they can say they live in the bigger city...

I really could not stand it at all as to why Alcoa moved to New York. To me, and to a few others on here, that made very little sense if any. I never thought (and I "steel" highly doubt) that US Steel would consider such a move. A move to a place like "New York" just to say, "oh, my office is on Park Avenue," is really not worth it; for the wrong reason. Corporate HQ should be about the business friendliness of a certain city (business incentives, etc), not about some rediculous quirky identity acquired just from locating to a particular location.

US Steel is an awesome company, and I am thrilled that they have called Pittsburgh home for their entire existance. I really hope it continues!

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by daviderik

I didn't much like that smart comment. Pittsburgh isn't New York. Paris. or Chicago. Nor does it want to be... It's just a shame some dicks can't see what this town has to offer.

Well, I know a certain "Dick" who/that can!!

IIRC they moved down here from Jamestown, NY, or somewhere else from NY State.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[themaguffin]

that was awkward first time to chime in about Pittsburgh and call someone a dick.

[themaguffin]

As for super wealthy and their choice of places to live... not all want to live in NYC etc. Or at least not full time. That's the nice thing with such wealth, you can have more than one home.

Some wealthly dude lives in Omaha btw....

[Austinlee]

I didn't mean to start a verbal war here about where the richest of the rich live. But in general, The richest of the rich want to be part of the New York City social circle or maybe Monte Carlo or else a mansion overlooking the pacific ocean in La Jolla, Ca or perhaps an oceanfront home in Miami. My point being, these are jet setting, multi home owning, world traveling usually families. Even like my parents who are merely middle class, they make their money in Pittsburgh but they are going to buy a second home in Naples, FL within a couple blocks of the beach. They travel out of the country for pleasure every year; They head to Florida every couple of months for a "refresher" all year round. And as soon as they are not "chained down" to Pgh because of their aging parents they are gone for good. And these are just your average, slightly upper middle class Pittsburghers making lower 6 figure income.

The more money people have, the less allegiance they show for any one place. And when they do settle down it has to be very world class. They keep asking me "When we move away are you going to stay in Pittsburgh??" And I'm like, "yeah this is a great city with a very bright future for my generation in technology, medicine and scientific advancement that excites me and with a gorgeous natural setting". And now that my only sister is getting her divorce she is thinking of moving to Spain. I may go join her for awhile if she does make it there.
If I did move away for good it would prolly be Boston, NYC or Miami for the same reasons I like Pgh: Scientific progress, bright future for technologies and beautiful settings.

[TBone7281]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Moronville

...Wait, what?

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

It's amazing too, that someone would uproot many people and establish, formally, a hq in NYC for no serious reason.

Well... I hated to see a Pittsburgh-founded, revolutionary company like Alcoa move its main HQ out from the land of its birth to NYC... but I do understand, and realize that there was a serious reason.

Alcoa became a MUCH more internationally-focused company in the 2nd half of the 20th century, and Pittsburgh very simply cannot offer what is necessary to manage a huge conglomerate in the globalized world (the limited airport service being only one of the detractors).

Originally Posted by glowrock

I'm a full believer that just because a few high-level execs occupy some Manhattan prize office space overlooking Central Park it doesn't really make a headquarters. Alcoa still has plenty of people here in Pittsburgh, just not the highest head-hauncho's. Big freaking deal. Same for USX. If a few high-level people go to NYC it doesn't mean it's a NYC-based company, except for maybe the IRS...

It's not just "a few high-level execs" though. The "brain center" that makes the major decisions for the company is in NYC (where it needs to be, considering the majority of Alcoa's owned operations and alliances are located outside the US), so it actually is a big deal. It's not like they're renting some office space in a converted warehouse in Queens. Alcoa's "face" to the world is presented as NYC, not Pittsburgh, and the company is highly involved in the NYC community.

Though, to me, Alcoa is still a Pittsburgh company -- with the operations center, research labs, etc. -- the nuts and bolts, daily business of the company is still largely managed from here. I'd love to see the day when Pittsburgh rises again to become a larger player on a global scale and the Alcoa top dogs move that HQ back to the 'burgh. Maybe very wishful thinking, but we can dream

Originally Posted by Evergrey

And if the elite management in not living in your community... they are probably less likely to make corporate decisions that benefit your community.

This is true. Alcoa does a lot in Pittsburgh and I think that they are dedicated to keeping the operations center here, but there is always that justified concern that they could make that announcement that no Pittsburgher wants to hear.

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Well, I know a certain "Dick" who/that can!!

IIRC they moved down here from Jamestown, NY, or somewhere else from NY State.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I'm the right Dick for the job!!

Yes, that's right... Erie, NY born and raised... moved right on down here to Pittsburgh, WV

[Austinlee]

Well looks like a CEO can have fun in Pittsburgh. But instead of caviar & foie gras it's assault and harrassment!

CEO of Pa. insurer Highmark charged with assault

http://www.timesonline.com/news/local_ne...4d20adf-e5bb-5e91-8fb1-49be74f56b42.html

[themaguffin]

Alcoa became a MUCH more internationally-focused company in the 2nd half of the 20th century, and Pittsburgh very simply cannot offer what is necessary to manage a huge conglomerate in the globalized world (the limited airport service being only one of the detractors)

That is simply not true - Well yes it's true that few cities can compare to NYC and NYC offers a lot.

However, many, many companies - global companies are based not only in Pittsburgh's, but much smaller cities and one reason is that NYC is not the center of all industries.

One industry that NYC is not the center of is, well industry - the metals and related industry is not based in NYC. Heinz is doing fine. P&G in Cincy might be called "global" too and their airport offerings have shrunk rapidly too.

If Pittsburgh doesn't offer the amenities of a large global company, what does, say Omaha offer?

What about Bentonville Arkansas?

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

That is simply not true - Well yes it's true that few cities can compare to NYC and NYC offers a lot.

However, many, many companies - global companies are based not only in Pittsburgh's, but much smaller cities and one reason is that NYC is not the center of all industries.

One industry that NYC is not the center of is, well industry - the metals and related industry is not based in NYC. Heinz is doing fine. P&G in Cincy might be called "global" too and their airport offerings have shrunk rapidly too.

If Pittsburgh doesn't offer the amenities of a large global company, what does, say Omaha offer?

What about Bentonville Arkansas?

You are citing consumer products companies with Heinz and P&G... very, very different from major manufacturing conglomerate with the majority of its operations overseas. With Omaha, I assume you are referring to Berkshire-Hathaway... also an entirely different business operating model and most importantly to this discussion, one whose family of companies are American firms. Wal-Mart in Bentonville, AR is certainly notable as being HQ'd in a small, remote place... but again, a retail chain (giant as it may be) is far a different business than international metals and materials manufacturing.

Alcoa's business and its position as one of the largest aluminum producers in the world necessitates an executive presence in a more internationally accessible city -- where international governments have presence, international banks and investment institutions have presence, and overseas travel is much, much quicker and easier, etc. Alcoa operates in an environment in which very large, often state-owned industries of foreign nations now have major power in the global market for primary aluminum and the vast array of associate products. China, the USSR, and Brazil for instance, were not part of the global aluminum smelting and manufacturing world that they are today. They were largely closed to foreign investment until rather recently and produced for domestic use primarily. A globalized marketplace for major commodities now consisting of former closed markets changed the game considerably and Alcoa had to respond with a more global face as the main American representative of the aluminum industry, or else be left further behind the Brits/Canadians/Australians and the Russians... who have their top executives in London/Montreal/Melbourne and Moscow/London. Pittsburgh just plainly cannot offer the necessary exposure, capital, transit, connections, institutions, etc. for the top executives running the firm that a place like NYC or a much larger city can. Pittsburgh is really quite fortunate to have retained such a large corporate presence with Alcoa.

[markson33]

Big time corporate decisions of where to move your headquarters are not usually made because a certain executive wants to live in a certain city. Not that it never happens, but the executive's home is very far down the list of priorities. There are many good reasons for a coporation to want a location in NYC just as there are also many (more) good reasons not too.

Back to development. I have no problem with the height of the buildings on the North Shore (other than the 2 story types). The bigger problem I have is with Continental's extremely bland/suburban architecture. I sure hope the Penguins developer can put together something more interesting.

[themaguffin]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Yes I commented on different companies, because the ones I noted where easy to note off the top of my head, but if one were to look at the history of industries like Alcoa's they can see a long time diverse set of locations for company hq's. That doesn't make NYC irrelevant of course. We know it is, but that doesn't make a hq necessary in NYC. We know for a fact, based on history that it doesn't.

I'm not saying this from the perspective of Pittsburgh, but in general.

[Private Dick]

You don't have to buy it, but those are the reasons the top Alcoa execs relocated to NYC and why the official HQ was eventually moved.

It's not my opinion, but what two former chief executives of Alcoa who are both professors in Pittsburgh after retiring recently from Alcoa in NYC have said -- that it was necessary (and overdue) move in order to remain competitive in the rapidly-changing industry. But maybe they're wrong...

[daviderik]

I was thinking about how a grocery store is unable to survive in downtown. The people that live there need one or would like one with out getting in there car or take a bus. But the trouble is a food market has to draw from a large area of people. And no one would ever travel into town just to food shop. thus the reason for the failed attemps. Yet the need is still there.. I was thinking of the new T tunnel over to the north side. If they were to build a big Super Market say a Market District Giant Eagle. Which would draw people from all parts of the north side and people that live in town could just hop on the T. But would building a Super Market on the North shore be a waste of space? It would not have to stand alone. It could be the ground floor of a 10 story building. Thoughts?

[Private Dick]

I think that a moderately-sized supermarket will be able to make it downtown in the not too distant future. A ground floor market in a condo building like what one sees in larger cities with larger downtown residential populations. I'm thinking of what Safeway does in DC area and D'Agostino in NYC -- smaller, yet still full-service markets.

Most likely, we'll see a supermarket in the Strip again once the proposed and u/c residential developments fill up and create a living neighborhood to go with the weekend shoppers there.