[Halifax] The Sister Sites | 2X29 m | 2X9 floors | Completed

[IanWatson]

Land use decisions in NS almost never make it to the courts, and if they do they tend to be ones from Halifax. Typically the UARB is very good at meting out well-considered decisions.


I think it's very important to have a right to appeal because, let's be honest, councils (or design review committees) don't always make the decision they should have made. I do like what has been done with HRMxD though, and that's the establishment of strict time limits for dealing with appeals. Outside of downtown when someone appeals to the UARB it can take up to a year to get a decision. They don't all take that long, and if the grounds for appeal are weak they frequently are much shorter, but it still does mean a cost for all of those involved. HRMxD strikes a nice balance by allowing appeals, but making sure they don't gum the whole system up to the end of time.

The Margaretta is a good example of the process working well. Residents got to make their appeal, staff did a really good job of outlining Council's abilities when it comes to an appeal, and Council quickly and efficiently dealt with the appeal.

The one thing the Margaretta appeal underscores to me though is how little the general public still understands about the planning process. As staff outlined, most of their grounds for appeal weren't valid. I imagine this is quite frustrating for the residents, and also it lead to some unnecessary staff and Council time addressing those issues. The planners in this room (me included) still have a lot of education to do.

[ScovaNotian]

It looks like NSLC has started moving into the south west corner.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by ScovaNotian

It looks like NSLC has started moving into the south west corner.

A booze emporium directly across from and in plain sight of the precious palace that is the sacred library?!? Think of the children!!!

[gm_scott]

Oh, I assumed it was a sales unit.

[HalifaxRetales]

The NSLC is called "The Port" it will replace the Port of Wines
Clyde St will remain

I had a chance to poke around yesterday

highlights:
*Speciality items, including wines they have never listed before
beer section highlighting locals, single runs and international. If you want a case of Blue or Keiths you need to go up the street
*Wine sample vending machines will have a card system that you load up money on an then you can try one of 32 samples, prices will vary but there will be $15 bottles to like $600 bottles
One of's for spirits

[JET]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

A booze emporium directly across from and in plain sight of the precious palace that is the sacred library?!? Think of the children!!!

COLD beer too, just the thing for the kids getting some fresh air outside the library on a summer evening.

[OldDartmouthMark]

This post is making me thirsty...

[Keith P.]

That facility looks hugely expensive for what would appear to only be the top end of a small market. Seems a lot like an ego trip, appropriate given what it is across the street from.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That facility looks hugely expensive for what would appear to only be the top end of a small market. Seems a lot like an ego trip, appropriate given what it is across the street from.

Developers really, really love government......especially when long term high rents can be obtained.

[someone123]

Is the store just one level? Originally there was talk of a two storey liquor store, but I think that was intended to replace both Port of Wines and the standard Clyde NSLC.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That facility looks hugely expensive for what would appear to only be the top end of a small market. Seems a lot like an ego trip, appropriate given what it is across the street from.

Geez, what would you say about Toronto's massive, palatial LCBO in a restored turn-of-the-century railway station?

EDIT: That LCBO story is also a great example of heritage restoration and re-use, and a great testament to the legacy of developer Paul Oberman on that city's built heritage. It'd be wonderful to have an Oberman-type figure in Halifax.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Geez, what would you say about Toronto's massive, palatial LCBO in a restored turn-of-the-century railway station?

That LCBO store has indeed been hugely controversial in Ontario. The LCBO always makes the NSLC look like pikers though, spending huge sums on all sorts of frills like a magazine the size of a phone book and a very expensive management structure. The NSLC aspires to be our version of the LCBO though, growing the management ranks and bureaucracy, and with an overemphasis on high-end wine. It's fun, after all, to travel the world on someone else's dime to taste wine and be wooed by the industry players. Unfortunately it does not sell well in this market except to a handful of doctors and other 1%ers. The last time I looked at their individual store results, the existing Port of Wines store was minuscule in terms of sales volume. I cannot see this doing enough business to justify what is obviously a huge investment.

[beyeas]

We were walking by it this morning on the way to the library and I was amazed at how much stock they already have out, given the significant construction still remaining on the building.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Are they really spending that much money on this? The fixtures/shelving look expensive with the LED lighting and such, but nothing else in the store looks over the top.

I don't really see it as being strictly a high-end store either, definitely no more than the current Port Of Wines. In fact, it looks like they are making it more of a specialty store by offering selections not available anywhere else, in all price ranges.

Supporting the local craft beer makers (of which there have been many new starts in the last few years) is a great idea as it not only supports local brewers but fills the gap vacated by Premiere Wines & Spirits, who left the neighbourhood to become Rockhead Wine & Beer Market on Windsor St.

The current Port of Wines is an aging store and would have to have been updated anyhow, so money would have been spent one way or the other.

Not to mention the increased population in the area from all the new buildings going up...

I see it as a good move, and one which will likely prove profitable for the NSLC.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Geez, what would you say about Toronto's massive, palatial LCBO in a restored turn-of-the-century railway station?

EDIT: That LCBO story is also a great example of heritage restoration and re-use, and a great testament to the legacy of developer Paul Oberman on that city's built heritage. It'd be wonderful to have an Oberman-type figure in Halifax.

Wow, that's quite nice. I'm actually a little jealous that we don't have something comparable.

Yes, an Oberman-type developer would be a great asset to this (and any) city. It takes a special person to have that kind of vision, and then make it happen. Unfortunately we don't appear to have any developers of that ilk, but we have plenty of the knock-em-down variety.

RIP Paul Oberman.

[lawsond]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That LCBO store has indeed been hugely controversial in Ontario. The LCBO always makes the NSLC look like pikers though, spending huge sums on all sorts of frills like a magazine the size of a phone book and a very expensive management structure. The NSLC aspires to be our version of the LCBO though, growing the management ranks and bureaucracy, and with an overemphasis on high-end wine. It's fun, after all, to travel the world on someone else's dime to taste wine and be wooed by the industry players. Unfortunately it does not sell well in this market except to a handful of doctors and other 1%ers. The last time I looked at their individual store results, the existing Port of Wines store was minuscule in terms of sales volume. I cannot see this doing enough business to justify what is obviously a huge investment.

LCBO has actually been trying to be more like NSLC in some ways. When I moved to Toronto in 1991, you pretty much had to get your beer from one of those filthy, ugly Beer Stores where you can't even browse and find your own. Gross. Now, the LCBO stores are actually a lot like NS. Also, you can now buy cold beer and booze in grocery stores in rural NS. And they are open whenever they care to be. It's only a matter of time until that concept is expanded to more urban settings. I have better hours and service (though not the selection) in rural Queens County than I would in Hali.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lawsond

LCBO has actually been trying to be more like NSLC in some ways. When I moved to Toronto in 1991, you pretty much had to get your beer from one of those filthy, ugly Beer Stores where you can't even browse and find your own.

Ontario should market the Beer Stores as a kind of Soviet Russia kitsch experience.

Funny how the province won't run a hotel but they are okay with running liquor stores. I think every province should get out of the alcohol retail business. While they're at it they should also bring their liquor consumption laws into this millennium. Canada is one of the most regressive countries in the world when it comes to liquor laws; just a step or two above Saudi Arabia.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by someone123

Ontario should market the Beer Stores as a kind of Soviet Russia kitsch experience.

Funny how the province won't run a hotel but they are okay with running liquor stores. I think every province should get out of the alcohol retail business. While they're at it they should also bring their liquor consumption laws into this millennium. Canada is one of the most regressive countries in the world when it comes to liquor laws; just a step or two above Saudi Arabia.

And Public Health officials are trying their very hardest to make it even more restrictive.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by portapetey

And Public Health officials are trying their very hardest to make it even more restrictive.

Yes, Public Health extremists like Dr. Strang see alcohol as the Great Satan. But for the most part this means they actually think having provincial govt control of liquor sales is a good thing. That is a comment on the poor job most provincial liquor boards do at selling and pleasing the customer.

The Beer Store is uniquely Ontario. They are not run by the govt. They are given the monopoly by the govt, and are run through a consortium of the major commercial brewers. It really makes no sense in this day and age but the big breweries are masters of political lobbying and support of the political parties, so it has never changed.

NS was actually among the last to allow agency stores to open in small rural areas. Ontario has something like 600 of them.

I actually have been a longtime supporter of the NSLC over the last decade or so as they are a very different experience now from what they were in the 1990s and before (which was truly awful). But I get the sense they are fat and happy there again now and are not feeling much pressure to do anything different other than throw money at bright shiny things. Things in the stores seem stale and the marketing, though no doubt hugely expensive, seems largely inept. I heard that this store is costing them close to $4 million. I would rather have that money go elsewhere in govt. and let a private operator make that kind of investment.

[lawsond]

Originally Posted by portapetey

And Public Health officials are trying their very hardest to make it even more restrictive.

Canada is a progressive country in so many ways. But there is still a vein of WASPy control over alcohol. Same in Ontario. I was floored when I retired here to White Point and found a grocery store selling beer and wine in a nearby village. Wow. So NS will come along pretty soon. I never noticed a lack of booze when I lived in Hali though from 1976 to 91. They literally power washed the barf off the sidewalks on Sunday morning. Not sure if it is still that way around Argyle.