NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[jbermingham123]

Its Pennsylvania Station... "Penn" station is just a nickname.. I hate that theyre trying to be cool and trendy by having the signs say Penn instead of Pennsylvania

[Busy Bee]

Agreed.

It reminds me of Penn Central, and look how that went.

Im not a fan of this grafting on of the word Empire either for that matter.

[Raysiri]

Originally Posted by Sky88

Certainly in 10 years, many things could change and the current project could undergo some changes. In my opinion, perhaps it would be better to reduce the number of towers from 10 to 6.

For example, Vornado could forgo building towers at sites 4 and 5 to focus on sites 6, 7 and 8.

On site 2, however, a single large tower could be built look like to the Hudson Spire and with 4 million square feet. In this way the church could also be preserved.

In addition, a 1,300 ft mixed-use tower could be built on site 3.

I like the idea of it. For Penn 15 however, its name needs to change to Penn 16 because of that inappropriate spelling, and the design needs to looks more like futuristic or something like that but I think BIG (Bjarke Ingels Group) need to take that building and redesign it to make it look much better and in closer resemblance to that of 2 World Trade Center and the Hudson Spiral.

[Sky88]

Yeah, I'm not too convinced by the current proposal for the 15 Penn Plaza site either. I hope it can improve in the future.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Sky88

Certainly in 10 years, many things could change and the current project could undergo some changes. In my opinion, perhaps it would be better to reduce the number of towers from 10 to 6.

For example, Vornado could forgo building towers at sites 4 and 5 to focus on sites 6, 7 and 8.

On site 2, however, a single large tower could be built look like to the Hudson Spire and with 4 million square feet. In this way the church could also be preserved.

None of that is gonna happen. For one thing, developers don’t just grab valuable real estate in Manhattan to do nothing with. The towers are also large enough as is. They aren’t gonna combine things to make one even larger, even more complicated and harder to lease one.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

Its Pennsylvania Station... "Penn" station is just a nickname.. I hate that theyre trying to be cool and trendy by having the signs say Penn instead of Pennsylvania

Well “Penn” is what everybody calls it. It’s Penn Station.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

None of that is gonna happen. For one thing, developers don’t just grab valuable real estate in Manhattan to do nothing with. The towers are also large enough as is. They aren’t gonna combine things to make one even larger, even more complicated and harder to lease one.

While this makes sense I guess we can kiss any possibility of a new tallest (at least to roof) goodbye and just expect the tallest of the bunch to be ~1300 or something.

That's (a little) depressing. This would be a great place for a 1600+ signature tower.

[Sky88]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

While this makes sense I guess we can kiss any possibility of a new tallest (at least to roof) goodbye and just expect the tallest of the bunch to be ~1300 or something.

That's (a little) depressing. This would be a great place for a 1600+ signature tower.

Well, I believe that things can change in 10 years for developers as well as for projects. Politics will also change in the future and perhaps the new governors of sure will want to give a new imprint to these projects by modifying them.

[Sky88]

Originally Posted by NYguy

None of that is gonna happen. For one thing, developers don’t just grab valuable real estate in Manhattan to do nothing with. The towers are also large enough as is. They aren’t gonna combine things to make one even larger, even more complicated and harder to lease one.

We'll see. I don't know if Vornado will eventually find so many buyers for its 5 towers. He's still looking for one for 15 Penn Plaza. I don't think building two such large towers on site 2 is the best solution. They obstruct the view of the WTC in an impressive way. More than two towers they seem to me like two walls. I also believe that with a new governor the project may have changed. 10 years is a long time ...

[SkyHigher]

I don't see how the need for so many tall towers here. I mean you have HY and MW nearby which in terms of skyline aren't exactly mind blowing classic New York.

I'd rather have shorter risk taking towers in terms look, shapes, sizes and even featuring early 20th century concepts updated such as skybridges?

Just regenerate the area giving it a Times Square vibe. The focus shouldn't always be very tall towers.

[Drcastro]

Originally Posted by Sky88

Certainly in 10 years, many things could change and the current project could undergo some changes. In my opinion, perhaps it would be better to reduce the number of towers from 10 to 6.

For example, Vornado could forgo building towers at sites 4 and 5 to focus on sites 6, 7 and 8.

On site 2, however, a single large tower could be built look like to the Hudson Spire and with 4 million square feet. In this way the church could also be preserved.

In addition, a 1,300 ft mixed-use tower could be built on site 3.

Except it says the church would have to move to make room for more tracks and platforms, not office buildings per se.

[Drcastro]

Originally Posted by SkyHigher

I don't see how the need for so many tall towers here. I mean you have HY and MW nearby which in terms of skyline aren't exactly mind blowing classic New York.
.

They aren’t “classic” New York until they’ve been there 15-20 years and people are used to seeing pictures of New York that show them. Then they’re classic New York.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

While this makes sense I guess we can kiss any possibility of a new tallest (at least to roof) goodbye and just expect the tallest of the bunch to be ~1300 or something.

That's (a little) depressing. This would be a great place for a 1600+ signature tower.

I guess you can, if you don’t know how things work. There isn’t even a developer for those sites yet, the zoning calls for enormous towers. We dont know anything for certain in regards to height, other than the towers will be very tall. Let’s WAIT for details on towers that are a decade away before throwing out those kinds of statements.

Originally Posted by SkyHigher

I don't see how the need for so many tall towers here. I mean you have HY and MW nearby which in terms of skyline aren't exactly mind blowing classic New York.

Manhattan West and Hudson Yards will be well established before development even begins on these sites.




https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article...-earnings-call

Steven Roth

There is a GPP, a General Positive Plan, which was introduced by the State Economic Development Commission, which would take the assets that circle PENN Station. And supply more densities than that is a pending initiative, which has been promulgated by the state. And two things sort of involved in that.

The first is, is that everybody, everybody is in favor of improving PENN Station from a logistics point of view, from a traffic point of view, from a usability point of view and from an aesthetic point of view. And so the state government and the railroads are actively involved in multiple attempts to do that, which involves public money.

In addition, it's a totally accepted land planning principle that the most density in any city should be at and surrounding the transit hub and that's us. So that's in process now, it's going through community, common periods, et cetera. And so, you know there is a lot going on in that regard.

.......My children want me to go to Puerto Rico. Look, New York there will always be New York, New York will always be great, New York will always be a high tax place to live and it will be - it will continue to be the center of commerce and New York continue to be the business capital of the United States.

What I'm saying basically is the backbone of New York is not the 20 or 30 hedge fund billionaires who are going to Florida are aware of the backbone of New York is the 3, 5, 100,000 even $1 million earning management people in their prime and their '40s who are raising families, et cetera, whose jobs can - who are not the heads of the businesses and can live anywhere, whose jobs and future depends upon being in the New York where they can do three times better than they can do anywhere else.

As long as that holds, New York will be fine. And as we see it people like JPMorgan Chase building, the new headquarters buildings, etcetera, the businesses that are - I'm not talking about the entrepreneurs who can live anywhere and there are a very small number of people, although they are very financially and forth, the mass of the talent that New York has pretty much is staying in New York, has to stay in New York, wants to stay in New York, loves to live in New York and has to live in New York because that's where these unique jobs are.

[Sky88]

Ha, ha was what I imagined. Vornado is focusing on PENN1, PENN2 and 15 Penn Plaza projects. The current 350 Park Avenue will remain in place while the new 2 million square foot tower will wait for the next business cycle to eventually be built. Few news on the other towers of the new Empire Station District complex. No news on the 31 west 57th street project. So for now we have a resized Vornado in its purposes.

[NYguy]

He's getting some feedback in the comments...


https://twitter.com/bradhoylman/stat...54546713497602

Signs we made for our presser at noon today about the 9️⃣ super tall commercial towers coming to the Penn Station area with no height restrictions & no local approval process

[Raysiri]

Oooooooo! So excited I bet they are taller than 1,200 feet.

[Sky88]

Cuomo's Controversial 'Empire Station' Faces Midtown Hearing

Midtown community boards will ask state leaders to respond to neighbors' questions about the huge development in a town hall Thursday.

Nick Garber, Patch Staff
Posted Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 2:46 pm ET

MIDTOWN MANHATTAN, NY — The state entity pushing the controversial "Empire Station Complex" that would transform swaths of Midtown will be put on the hot seat in an upcoming town hall meeting convened by two neighborhood boards.

The virtual town hall will be held over Zoom starting 6 p.m. Thursday, July 15. Organized by Community Boards 4 and 5, it will feature representatives from Empire State Development answering residents' questions about the project.

Backed by Gov. Andrew Cuomo, the plan calls for opening up eight lots around Penn Station for development, allowing private companies to construct 10 new buildings — including five skyscrapers towering more than 1,000 feet.

About 208 residents and 9,000 workers would be displaced by the project, which would also entail the demolition of the Hotel Pennsylvania, St. John the Baptist Church and Touro College, among other buildings.

http://patch.com/new-york/midtown-ny...idtown-hearing

[NYguy]

A little more on the overall scope of west side development….


https://w42st.com/post/manhattan-mid...plex-new-york/

Time to Have Your Say On the Future of Penn Station and “Manhattan Midtown West”


by Phil O'Brien

In January, Governor Andrew Cuomo heralded a $51bn reimagining of Manhattan Midtown West that will “spread East to Broadway and West to the Hudson” — by March, that plan was being opposed by local politicians as “a real estate development plan, not a transportation plan.” Next week, residents will have their chance to get a say in the future of the area at a Virtual Town Hall.

Manhattan Community Board 4 (MCB4) Chair Lowell Kern encouraged locals to get involved, saying: “The Governor’s proposal has the potential to displace residents and business in the district, while also the potential to enhance the neighborhood for generations to come. We believe it is important the community learn more details of this plan now.”

Cuomo announced the plan in his State of the State address at the start of the year. He said the project — which includes the redevelopment of the Javits Center, Port Authority Bus Terminal, Penn Station, and extensions of the High Line to the new Moynihan Train Hall and Pier 76 — would create almost 200,000 jobs.

The ambitious multi-billion dollar plan takes in 140 acres of Manhattan real estate and will include transit hubs and “new residential commercial and public works projects that will combine to form a new vibrant, exciting district,” he said. Cuomo’s first step is to deal with New York’s decaying transit hubs and push again for the delayed Gateway Project to deliver new train tunnels between Manhattan and New Jersey.

The Governor has since delivered the new development at the Javits Center, which has increased capacity by 50%.

He’s also created a 5-acre open space at Pier 76, replacing the NYPD Tow Pound. “Pier 76 is probably the most under-utilized piece of real estate in New York City. After decades of apathy, the pier will become a magnificent public space that will delight visitors and tourists and welcome all of Manhattan,” he commented in January.

Cuomo’s overall plan for the west side involves “another New York city eyesore, the Port Authority Bus Complex.” At the end of June, Town Halls were held by Port Authority to outline their proposals for the terminal to Hell’s Kitchen residents.

He plans to thread all this together by extensions of the High Line to “make this a walkable, enjoyable part of Manhattan,” he said. Phase one will connect the High Line to the new Moynihan Train Hall by extending “eastward from 10th Avenue and 30th street through the Brookfield properties, creating a 1,200 foot path.” The state is studying a proposed phase two, in which the High Line will push northward and connect Pier 76 with a pedestrian bridge across the West Side Highway.

Part of the $51bn funding will come from making 14 building sites available that will yield 20 million square feet of retail, commercial and residential development. Cuomo emphasized that the “priority will be to use these sites for affordable housing, creating up to 1,400 much-needed units.

“In total, these West Side projects represent $51bn in investment and 196,000 jobs. Even more. They will show New Yorkers and the world that a new New York city is in reach and that the future is bright,” he added during his State of the State speech.

Some of the proposed towers are so-called “supertalls” of up to 1,300 feet that would block views of the Empire State Building and cast large shadows over much of midtown.

“The ‘Complex’ would cause myriad adverse impacts: from sidewalk overcrowding, shadows, and the demolition of entire city blocks, to the obstruction of views of the Empire State Building. The state treats these issues as if they are a ripple in the midst of a tsunami of development. They are fully aware of all the impacts, yet they propose no mitigation,” said Kern and Law-Gisiko.

LeFrancois warned at the MCB4 Executive Committee in March that If the plan moves forward: “It will only make the area more dangerous, crowded, and we could add the Empire Station Complex plan to the list of planning failures for the city and the state.”

Empire State Development plans to present and discuss the proposed Empire Station Complex project at the Town Hall on Thursday, July 15 at 6pm via Zoom.

[chris08876]

Some of the proposed towers are so-called “supertalls” of up to 1,300 feet that would block views of the Empire State Building and cast large shadows over much of midtown.

“The ‘Complex’ would cause myriad adverse impacts: from sidewalk overcrowding, shadows, and the demolition of entire city blocks, to the obstruction of views of the Empire State Building. The state treats these issues as if they are a ripple in the midst of a tsunami of development. They are fully aware of all the impacts, yet they propose no mitigation,” said Kern and Law-Gisiko.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by chris08876

You know, it’s shocking that so called “supertalls” could be built in Midtown, of all places. These people sicken me with such stupidity.