LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[BrandonJXN]

Citywatch, you of all people should know that redevelopment takes time. There will be successes and failures. With as long as some of us have been here, we are all keenly aware at how trial and error works in DTLA for every Botega Louie, there will be 4 or 5 places like Mode (gold star if you were around SSP long enough to remember the drama that was Mode). 10 years ago, nothing was in downtown LA at all. Spring Street was essentially the start of Skid Row. Now look at it. Much better than it was in 2003 right? And we still have plenty of room to grow.

[a9l8e7n]

Any guess how tall omni tower will be? my guess is 400ft....

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by HunterK

I'm not denying that there are some good things going on in downtown. I follow them all closely, and know whats going on in the actual core better than most since I'm out here watching every single day. The Luma spot was just an example. I could do a photoseries on vacant retail but it would only depress us all.

I want to explain something to you:

Number one, your arrogance needs to be put on an boat and be shipped off to Tonga. There have been formers who have been on this site for over 10 years and contributed a great deal to this forum. So for you to say that 'you know the core better since you are out there every day' is a total slap in the face for those of us who consistently provide info and updates over the years. Why else would we be here if we didn't care about the future of DTLA? If that were the case, maybe you could've have known why there hasn't been anything since Hygee or whatever that Dutch bakery was called at 11th and Hope.

Number two: You need to think before you express your thoughts on something. You rubbed a lot of people the wrong way with your 'why are all these Westlake (brown) people shopping at Target?' Should they not be able to? Also: I live in Westlake. Spend some actual time here before making some cracked out statement.

Hate to go off topic but I'm just saying what I'm sure a lot of people have been meaning to say.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by a9l8e7n

Any guess how tall omni tower will be? my guess is 400ft....

The SSP map of LA has 9th/Olive planned for 108 meters, which is 354 feet tall.

I don't know if that figure is exact, but it seems about right to me. In comparison, Watermarke is 395 feet tall with 35 floors.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by HunterK

I could do a photoseries on vacant retail but it would only depress us all.

I actually think you should.

[BrandonJXN]

Looking at Google Maps, I really hope that a developer or developers are drawing up plans for that huge lot directly south of 8th and Grand. With construction on 2 sides now, I would love to see a mixed use hotel/condo project on that site.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

maybe you could've have known why there hasn't been anything since Hygee or whatever that Dutch bakery was called at 11th and Hope.

seems like it wasn't too long ago that I came across a story about that bakery....sorry to now learn that it didn't last too long. in a way the struggles of a business like that illustrates the saying of "build it & they will come" doesn't necessarily apply to the hood. I was hoping the success of ralphs, bottega louie, the edison, yardhouse at la live, the palm, water grill, & some other major businesses in dt meant things were moving closer to "build it & they will come".

btw, your mentioning mode does ring a bell....I vaguely recall that was a restaurant...on 9th St or 8th st, maybe across the street from the new Carmel proj?....that closed before it even opened.

meanwhile, for silly sniping....or TOS violations....to be occurring on a day like this, when there are so many good things to talk about....



hollywoodhillview.com

doesn't say much about some forumers here. let's keep the maury povich or jerry springer show on TV & not at a forum about new devlpt in dtla. btw, threehundred, I'm not referring to you as much as I'm thinking of another person with a screen name of a food product.

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I actually think you should.

I think its a good idea. Though it would take weeks. Practically every single building would be included.

Originally Posted by citywatch

seems like it wasn't too long ago that I came across a story about that bakery....sorry to now learn that it didn't last too long. in a way the struggles of a business like that illustrates the saying of "build it & they will come" doesn't necessarily apply to the hood. I was hoping the success of ralphs, bottega louie, the edison, yardhouse at la live, the palm, water grill, & some other major businesses in dt meant things were moving closer to "build it & they will come".

They Hygge Bakery is still there in one of the retail spots at Luma. It seems dead most the time I see it.


How ridiculous is it that in the barely 1 day that fences have been up for the 8th & Grand project they've already been graffiti'd on!

[Illithid Dude]

I'd just like to point out to those complaining about restaurants going out of business in DT, that the world of restraunteering is a revolving door. I live in Brentwood/Santa Monica, one of the most desirable areas in Los Angeles, and restaurants go out of business all the time. It's completely normal for things to not do well. Downtown isn't invulnerable to this phenomenon, nor should it be. And besides, in many ways, it's very healthy for things to go out of business. New blood breeds innovation.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by HunterK

I think its a good idea. Though it would take weeks. Practically every single building would be included.




They Hygge Bakery is still there in one of the retail spots at Luma. It seems dead most the time I see it.


How ridiculous is it that in the barely 1 day that fences have been up for the 8th & Grand project they've already been graffiti'd on!

Hyperbole like this is what makes it hard for people to take you seriously.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I'd just like to point out to those complaining about restaurants going out of business in DT, that the world of restraunteering is a revolving door. I live in Brentwood/Santa Monica, one of the most desirable areas in Los Angeles, and restaurants go out of business all the time. It's completely normal for things to not do well. Downtown isn't invulnerable to this phenomenon, nor should it be. And besides, in many ways, it's very healthy for things to go out of business. New blood breeds innovation.

Honestly, it seems like some posters here live on some completely different planet without any knowledge of how things actually work. Here's an article on the average lifespan of a restaurant in this country. http://yourbusiness.azcentral.com/average-life-span-restaurant-6024.html

"The Perry Group study concluded that most restaurants close during their first year of operation". I think that says it all.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I'd just like to point out to those complaining about restaurants going out of business in DT, that the world of restraunteering is a revolving door. I live in Brentwood/Santa Monica, one of the most desirable areas in Los Angeles, and restaurants go out of business all the time. It's completely normal for things to not do well. Downtown isn't invulnerable to this phenomenon, nor should it be. And besides, in many ways, it's very healthy for things to go out of business. New blood breeds innovation.

To put it in perspective, the national average is 60% of restaurants going out of business their first year. Its a tough business, and DTLA is not immune.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by citywatch

btw, I guess since most of you sspers are guys, you don't seem to understand that for just about all retail...meaning stores....to survive & thrive....& that aren't like swapmeets on broadway or the grungefest around santee alley....they depend on lots & lots of female customers, esp with $$, milling about. they can be women living in dt, working in dt, visiting dt from the burbs or other cities. wherever they're from, there has to lots of them to lure shops to the hood & to help keep them open. so far, dtla needs lot more of that particular demographic.

take it from someone whose own daughter went when looking over the rundown shops on broadway over 2 yrs ago, & my friend visiting LA from noCal last yr who didn't exactly want to walk around dtla, compared with the way she & I happily walked around SF several yrs ago....in the tradition of girls out on the town. That's why I often stress the importance of getting rid of all the gaps & sections throughout dtla. they tend to deter ppl from wanting to walk around, esp women who already are nervous about the idea of running into rambunctious homeless ppl & panhandlers, or muggers.

that's why putting eyes & ears 24/7 around currently lonely streets like Grand ave between 7th & 8th st at night....where the Carmel proj is now going up....will be a great boost.

Thanks for making this point, citywatch. This is something that a lot of us here (myself included) don't grasp quite as intuitively, since we're guys.

I'm quoting you since your comment kind of got lost in the mix of things.

I can't think of any other major totally new proj to break ground beyond the ones that are occurring right now, or that will begin shortly. So it's now a matter of watching smaller projs to be completed & open, mainly new restaurants, stores....esp at 7th/fig....& renovation work on bldgs like the clark, embassy & old UA theater.

I think there are still a lot of "what-ifs" to it, but Barry Shy wants to get shovels in the dirt for his 40 story tower in April. Although apparently his plans need revisions.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I spent so much time composing my silly post, your & threehundred's updates didn't even show up til I refreshed the page right now....

My previous post already is outdated.



this moment, this period of time is.....all good.

lol, its all good!

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by HunterK

How ridiculous is it that in the barely 1 day that fences have been up for the 8th & Grand project they've already been graffiti'd on!

its unbelievable. the tagging nearest grand on the 8th street side went up sometime in the afternoon because it wasnt there when i left for work. that means some asshole actually tagged that in broad daylight with people around. how i wish i had a bat and was there

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by HunterK

They Hygge Bakery is still there in one of the retail spots at Luma.

that's good to know...& a relief if they're managing to pull in enough customers per day to remain open.

as for illithid's post or chef's link to the perry group, I'm certainly not oblivious to just how tough it is....how much turnover exists....not just for the restaurant business, but for small retail businesses in general. but dtla is a special case. The reason is its reputation has long been one where businesses, big & small....unless they're barely one step up from ppl who sell junk out of the trunk of their car at a drive in swapment....fear to tread.

A place like Figaro on broadway is even more of a special case cuz it's just about the first & only nice business to open in that part of dt in over 40 yrs. So if it doesn't succeed, that will have greater repercussions than if it were a business that fails to survive in brentwood or Samo, or pasadena, or newport bch.

I also have a soft spot for owners of places like hygee & figaro. That's cuz they're newcomers trying to add to the quality of the city....by moving here from another country....including from towns in europe that aren't as infamous for being hostile to city life....& putting their hard earned $$ into a new shop in dtla.

But whether a restaurant in dtla is owned by locals or immigrants, they must all be familiar with the way such businesses trying to open in dt have to go through a maze of city permits & red tape. They probably have dealt with costly delays, so the odds already are stacked against them, in more ways than one.

Originally Posted by blackcat23

This is something that a lot of us here (myself included) don't grasp quite as intuitively, since we're guys.

I don't think it's just a matter of understanding who's the biggest, best shoppers out there....or the difference between customers who are guys instead of women....but also trying to figure out the nature of dt by seeing it from a close vantage point. When I'm miles away from the hood & guessing what things are like for ppl actually there....& trying to gauge how new projs & improvements are affecting things....I notice my perceptions are different compared with when I'm actually in the hood. I'm generally an easier grader when looking at things from a distance than from up close.

I posted this a few months ago, since it shows the relationship of the new projs now finally....FINALLY!....underway to the rest of the hood. iow, unless ppl actually are in dt, they're more likely to not realize what's going on next door or across the street from the onni tower, or carmel partners bldg, or the tower at 8th & hope.

I don't think stores sitting along streets, & that are located in new apt bldgs, are the only answer to making dt more friendly to pedestrians....to make Grand around 8th & 9th st, or farther south, seem less lonely. I'd be perfectly happy if the first floor of new apt bldgs contained residences. The only problem with that is many ppl wouldn't want to live in such units, due to a lack of privacy, or cuz of noise, or due to security concerns. But I'd rather walk past apts with ppl inside, than vacant shopfronts, or spaces where stores close up after 6:00 at night, or are hurting for customers & look kind of .


maps.google.com

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

lol, its all good!

this really is a good time for ppl living in dt, or working there, or visiting there, & for anyone keeping track of the maturing of LA overall. The number of new projs in dt, & extending west to Wilshire & western, & Wilshire & LaBrea, & the projs in Hollywood, & other parts of town, make this a very satisfactory....& long overdue....moment in LA's history.

Right now, on this very day....when 2 major projs finally showed signs of beginning work....is when it should be said....yes, it's all good.

[LA/OCman]

I really wouldn't be too concerned about a proliferation of restaurant closures. There are plenty that have proven themselves over time. Look at Pitfire Pizza, Nickel Diner, Pete's, Colori Kitchen. All opened up in dead zones and have survived....yet J Lounge did not, and that was a huge restaurant. The furnishing store "Suburban" also closed in the retail space at the Rosslyn on 5th and Main. Broadway will see some wins and some losses. The Streetcar will have an impact when they start construction. You will see landscaping improvements on Broadway. Also, to see 1,400 new residents in 2 projects (9th and Olive and 8th and Grand) will also have an quite an impact.

I mentioned in another post that it will take a good 20 years before we experience a truly vibrant Downtown. If we add 3,000 residents a year over the next 20 years, Downtown's population will well exceed 100,000. Given that not long ago it was 18,000, that is quite a change.

I believe one area to watch is south of 9th on Broadway. The Ace Hotel is a big deal and if you walk south and look at some of the most beautiful architecture...and empty parking lots, you will see the potential. Plus the Streetcar will head south to Olympic.

In addition to the higher profile new residential buildings, we will see another 650 new residents near 4th and Main when the Hellman Building and Title Insurance buildings are renovated.

[brudy]

Originally Posted by LA/OCman

I mentioned in another post that it will take a good 20 years before we experience a truly vibrant Downtown. If we add 3,000 residents a year over the next 20 years, Downtown's population will well exceed 100,000. Given that not long ago it was 18,000, that is quite a change.

That's a lot of development. Is that a reasonable expectation?

As a downtown resident, it's very hard to take the long view. It often feels like things hang on by a thread here, that it's a constant battle between blight and progress. DTLA feels somewhere between the Lower East Side and Detroit, depending upon which block you're on. I agree with another poster that if Figaro or even Ross fails, that could scare off businesses (as will the streetcar construction). Businesses rise and fall all the time everywhere, but it's hard in downtown when there are so few of them. I'm bummed that Suburban is gone, I liked that place and you'd think it would do well given the # of lofts and constant turnover.

[Mojeda101]

Vibes of 2008 are coming back. I foresee another sea of cranes once again

[brudy]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I don't think stores sitting along streets, & that are located in new apt bldgs, are the only answer to making dt more friendly to pedestrians....to make Grand around 8th & 9th st, or farther south, seem less lonely. I'd be perfectly happy if the first floor of new apt bldgs contained residences. The only problem with that is many ppl wouldn't want to live in such units, due to a lack of privacy, or cuz of noise, or due to security concerns. But I'd rather walk past apts with ppl inside, than vacant shopfronts, or spaces where stores close up after 6:00 at night, or are hurting for customers & look kind of .

But neither are ideal - if they're going to design for residential at street level, you end up with fortresses like some of those developments around 2nd and 3rd and Alameda (and others in the arts district). They create dead zones the same as empty retail spaces, with no hope of that changing.