PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[Charmy2]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Best movie ever made...also anybody know what the deal is with the Transit Terminal Tower at 2901 Arch Street?

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Charmy2

Best movie ever made

Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'.

[Mr Saturn64]

Originally Posted by Charmy2

Best movie ever made...also anybody know what the deal is with the Transit Terminal Tower at 2901 Arch Street?

It's more of a "vision" kind of project for the far future than something that will be built in the near future.

[mcgrath618]

By the end of this month I will have visited every major city in Europe (except maybe Budapest), and I must say: we have nothing to worry about. Philadelphia is doing fine.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

By the end of this month I will have visited every major city in Europe (except maybe Budapest), and I must say: we have nothing to worry about. Philadelphia is doing fine.

what do you mean?

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

what do you mean?

Negladelphians like to complain about how far behind we are compared with our European peers in terms of cleanliness, city services, etc.
Obviously all of the countries in Europe are different from the US and have their pros and cons (health care, taxes, etc.) but insofar as cities? It’s really only London so far that has wowed me with cleanliness, safety, city services, etc.

Even Amsterdam, the king of all urbanism arguments, had its own set of problems.
That’s not to say I haven’t enjoyed everywhere I’ve been, nor that Philadelphia can’t learn anything from a place like Amsterdam, Paris, etc. I was just led to believe I’d never want to come home after I saw how much better Europe was

[yuryphilly]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Negladelphians like to complain about how far behind we are compared with our European peers in terms of cleanliness, city services, etc.
Obviously all of the countries in Europe are different from the US and have their pros and cons (health care, taxes, etc.) but insofar as cities? It’s really only London so far that has wowed me with cleanliness, safety, city services, etc.

Even Amsterdam, the king of all urbanism arguments, had its own set of problems.
That’s not to say I haven’t enjoyed everywhere I’ve been, nor that Philadelphia can’t learn anything from a place like Amsterdam, Paris, etc. I was just led to believe I’d never want to come home after I saw how much better Europe was

It's interesting that the last time I visited Paris, it was before the pandemic and I was disappointed. The traffic was terrible, scooters, bikes, cars were all driving on the same roads, and it was a mess. Everyone was rude, a lot of people smoking, and drivers never stopped for people trying to cross the road. When I came back to Philly, I was surprised I was more comfortable walking in Center City. I heard they had some major improvements since, but I don't think it affected the entire city.

Last year I managed to spend 9 months in Barcelona and it was a different experience. The infrastructure there was amazing compared to Philly. It was comfortable to walk, ride a bike, and drive in the city. The city was clean, except for some areas in the old town. I wish I could stay, but we had to return to the US because of work.

At the same time, even though some places are cleaner and better maintained, I started to notice that I missed certain things that we have here in the US. It's hard to appreciate them if you never leave the country for a long time.

[mcgrath618]

Paris is still a bit of a mess in that regard. I had incredibly low expectations set by friends and family which were certainly bucked—it’s a beautiful city and the cuisine is incredible. I’d absolutely go back for a few days.

Barcelona and Madrid were both incredible. Barcelona is one of my favorite cities I’ve visited on this trip! Like you said though, a lot of the old city could use a clean up.

[TK2001]

September 14

Philadelphia September 17, 1987 by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

September 17

https://youtu.be/wd1_XndfFuc?si=b2S7HJP1eVsBDwBe

September 20

Philadelphia skyline September 20, 1987 by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

The rest of Didier Cayrac's amazing images:

https://www.cayrac.com/travel-diarie...5#comment-1004

[Raja]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Paris is still a bit of a mess in that regard. I had incredibly low expectations set by friends and family which were certainly bucked—it’s a beautiful city and the cuisine is incredible. I’d absolutely go back for a few days.

Barcelona and Madrid were both incredible. Barcelona is one of my favorite cities I’ve visited on this trip! Like you said though, a lot of the old city could use a clean up.

Funny, I've always loved Paris and don't understand the hate it gets from people.

I just got back from a fairly long trip to Athens. Talk about vibrant... that city was lively virtually 24/7. It's incredible what a baseline level of safety can do to a city's nightlife scene, and (as usual when I travel to Europe) it made me sad for what gun violence has done to American culture. All that said, their drivers were absolutely terrible. Philly's drivers are 1000x more courteous.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Negladelphians like to complain about how far behind we are compared with our European peers in terms of cleanliness, city services, etc.
Obviously all of the countries in Europe are different from the US and have their pros and cons (health care, taxes, etc.) but insofar as cities? It’s really only London so far that has wowed me with cleanliness, safety, city services, etc.

Even Amsterdam, the king of all urbanism arguments, had its own set of problems.
That’s not to say I haven’t enjoyed everywhere I’ve been, nor that Philadelphia can’t learn anything from a place like Amsterdam, Paris, etc. I was just led to believe I’d never want to come home after I saw how much better Europe was

Negadelphians always have and always will be Negadelphians. Sure, I think there are things I’d like to see improved in the city and it can be frustrating at times, but I have a hard time understanding their frame of reference certainly post-Covid. There are fewer and fewer people alive today that remember the 1940’s romanticism of American cities before their decline during the mid twentieth mid century and I highly doubt they’re spouting off on Twitter. So what are they comparing it to?

It’s hard to say if things were that much worse in CC and it’s immediate environs now vs the Nutter years. Genuinely curious if others notice much of a difference either. Not to make trivialize the crime surge and issues regarding QOL, but the city feels like it’s old self post Covid. The ATV/dirt bike gangs seem to be becoming less and less and overall crime in CC has apparently returned to pre Covid numbers.

I was walking around NYC last night around Penn Staton. I lived in the city between 2014-2017 and I will say compared to what I remember then versus now, it’s not great - more litter, druggies and homeless. It feels like city officials don’t know how to respond to it or don’t want to. Putting the office vacancy rate aside, my sense is that CC’s bounce back from Covid is largely the work of CCD. Their date driven, engaged approach is a big part of keeping the city afloat imo.

[summersm343]

I have to chime in. I do agree mostly. It always blows my mind when people are so negative towards Philadelphia. It really is a fantastic city with so much to offer. I do find from personal experience that a lot of people whom are so negative about the city tend to live in the suburbs or the countryside, and do not travel a lot. If they do “travel”, they’re going to Florida or a tropical island, which I really wouldn’t consider traveling. Therefore, I’m dumbfounded because they have no comparison, and Philadelphia now is leagues better than Philadelphia 20 years ago. The city is just extremely and easily walkable, has fantastic food, amazing neighborhoods and architecture and so, so many cultural institutions and arts, museums, etc. This city really does have so much to offer.

With that said, I do think the majority of Philadelphia’s negative perceptions with people all boils down to crime. While I do think people do overreact to crime, and it tends to be mostly limited to specific areas/neighborhoods…. If this city could get the crime (especially violent gun crime) under control, then the city would have a much, much better perception both domestically and internationally. European cities are much, much safer in this regard.

Regarding liter and cleanliness? Most European cities are similar to Philadelphia. I just wish city leadership would put more of an effort towards cleaning up all the goddamn litter. It’s really not that hard.

I would say those are the biggest things that need to and should be addressed to change perceptions on the city. Other things would be removing ATV/dirt bikes from the streets, cleaning up the streets regarding grit/dirt/weeds, getting homeless and druggies off the streets, cleaning up parks and refurbishing parks, continuing to rebuild and revitalize more neighborhoods, reduce speeding/reckless drivers, improve schools and reduce poverty.

All in all though, Philadelphia is a fantastic city. It has its problems like everywhere else. You’re never going to solve all the problems of a city. We address crime (particularly gun crime) and clean up all the damn litter? I guarantee you that will go a LONG way towards improving perceptions of Philadelphia.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

By the end of this month I will have visited every major city in Europe (except maybe Budapest), and I must say: we have nothing to worry about. Philadelphia is doing fine.

The “except Budapest” part is not a small qualification.

[Mr Saturn64]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I have to chime in. I do agree mostly. It always blows my mind when people are so negative towards Philadelphia. It really is a fantastic city with so much to offer. I do find from personal experience that a lot of people whom are so negative about the city tend to live in the suburbs or the countryside, and do not travel a lot. If they do “travel”, they’re going to Florida or a tropical island, which I really wouldn’t consider traveling. Therefore, I’m dumbfounded because they have no comparison, and Philadelphia now is leagues better than Philadelphia 20 years ago. The city is just extremely and easily walkable, has fantastic food, amazing neighborhoods and architecture and so, so many cultural institutions and arts, museums, etc. This city really does have so much to offer.

With that said, I do think the majority of Philadelphia’s negative perceptions with people all boils down to crime.

Why wouldn't you consider going to Florida or an island "travel." That seems so arbitrary.

Regarding the bulk of the post, it's not at all fair, but we're being compared and comparing ourselves to New York, Washington, and to a lesser extent Boston. New York is New York, DC is the capital, Boston has the universities, and then there's us. Sure, we have great museums and architecture, but compared to those other cities we're a distant 4th place. The drugs and crime reputation is the real killer (no pun intended), even if Philly is actually safer than DC. Go outside the Northeast, and Philly is much better to visit than the huge majority of US cities. It's just that we're trapped by our geography.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Mr Saturn64

Regarding the bulk of the post, it's not at all fair, but we're being compared and comparing ourselves to New York, Washington, and to a lesser extent Boston. New York is New York, DC is the capital, Boston has the universities, and then there's us. Sure, we have great museums and architecture, but compared to those other cities we're a distant 4th place.

Compared to Boston, Philly is hardly a distant 4th place. In terms of cultural, historical, and other amenities, Philly is easily equal to--if not better than in many cases--Boston. Unfortunately, Philly doesn't promote itself and its cultural treasures as well as Boston, but that's another story. Not to get into a city-vs.-city thing, but I can't stay silent when Philly is called a "distant 4th place" to Boston.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

Compared to Boston, Philly is hardly a distant 4th place. In terms of cultural, historical, and other amenities, Philly is easily equal to--if not better than in many cases--Boston. Unfortunately, Philly doesn't promote itself and its cultural treasures as well as Boston, but that's another story. Not to get into a city-vs.-city thing, but I can't stay silent when Philly is called a "distant 4th place" to Boston.

I'm in absolute agreement. Many of Philadelphia's cultural treasures, or parts of its rich history, are not even well-known locally.

I'd argue that the city's Quaker roots have always kept Philadelphians a little too humble (and unnecessarily self-deprecating), but what I always like to say is that Philadelphia, more than perhaps any other city in the US aside from New York, is like an onion. It has so many layers of complexity to its culture, people and history that it can appeal to a huge and diverse cross-section of the world.

[Knight Hospitaller]

The distant fourth place sentiment is poppycock. In addition to the things others have already addressed, we actually have more institutions of higher learning than Boston. I do agree, however, that it's all about geography. Boston is the big fish in the New England puddle, a regional capital. Philadelphia is for many a rest stop between NY and DC. Put us in the Mountains, and we're Denver. Put us in the Pacific NW, we're Seattle. That said, we need to be more positive about how to leverage our location right between NY and DC (with a fraction of their cost of living).

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

I'd argue that the city's Quaker roots have always kept Philadelphians a little too humble (and unnecessarily self-deprecating), . . . .

Are you familiar with the book "Puritan Boston & Quaker Philadelphia," by eminent Penn sociologist E. Digby Baltzell? I have to confess that I haven't read it, but from what I've heard, my sense is that it embodies this very sentiment--especially in comparison to Boston.

[Londonee]

A relatively popular urban Twitter-er (x’er) YimbyLand posted a somewhat random question/convo today about listing your favorite 4 US Cities… and I was somewhat blown away by how many random people, from far off places, had Philly in their top 4. Obviously it is an urbanism blog, si sun belt cities be damned, almost no LA, no ATL, no Dal… but PHL was highly included.

Like the old saying goes… Philadelphia isn’t as bad as Philadelphians say it is.

[yuryphilly]

Originally Posted by summersm343

All in all though, Philadelphia is a fantastic city. It has its problems like everywhere else. You’re never going to solve all the problems of a city. We address crime (particularly gun crime) and clean up all the damn litter? I guarantee you that will go a LONG way towards improving perceptions of Philadelphia.

The biggest problem is the lack of leadership and acceptance of the status quo. Littler and crime can be dealt with by active involvement. The city has the resources but lacks direction because our mayor decided to opt-out, that makes me sad. If we hired an army of people to pick up litter at least a couple of days a week, it would make a huge difference. Put a regular NY-style trash can on every corner. Have cops patrol hot spots more often, not just sit in their cars. There is a lot of apathy in the city government right now because people feel nothing can be done.
But I am glad to read positive thoughts about Philly on this forum, I mostly hear or read how bad the city is.