Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Hatman]

I have no idea if they're replacing/placing a snow-melt system at Ballpark. I'll watch carefully and see if they do. The old concrete tactile strips on the edges of the platforms are near the end of their lives and must be replaced. Replacing them with the plastic variety that is missing a row of bumps right where the S70 handicap ramp touches down is a necessary upgrade to keep the system consistent, and therefore safe. It is expensive, but it isn't a waste of money to keep the 'physical plant' in good shape.
Also, this project was tied together with redoing the crossing on 13th south, which was in pretty poor condition. It's fixed now, and crossing the tracks on that street is no longer like falling into a ditch.
The hay-bales, I've learned, are a sound mitigation measure designed to reduce the noise of the concrete-cutting machines will cause to the surrounding neighborhood.
Looking at the temporary platforms being built, I've got to thinking how nice it would be if all TRAX stations built in the railroad ROW sections also had side platforms, and if bike lanes paralleled the whole route. How much nicer would that be for everyone? Instead of making TRAX corridors sort of back-alleys and hidden behind development, put a bike path down both sides and make it like the S-Line corridor, with apartments and pedestrian-oriented development offering access directly to the trails. Wouldn't that be great?
We already have a small example at Sandy Expo station, where side platforms and bike paths already make the place a much more connected and convenient place to catch the train.

[s.p.hansen]

Lehi's Tech Company [Adobe] Say Utah Owes It Better Highway, train line

Lehi and its high-tech firms want to jump to the front of the line for transportation projects, arguing the state is reneging on promised work used to lure companies there.

They warn that Utah will lose many new, big employers without improvements.

At issue: a $450 million upgrade to the Interstate 15 corridor through Lehi, including rebuilding a congested interchange with State Road 92 at Thanksgiving Point and adding a "flyover" bridge nearby to improve access across the freeway.

The Utah Transportation Commission, which prioritizes highway projects statewide, currently has that work slated to occur in about five years.

Lehi, developers and their local legislators are urging state lawmakers to start the project next year instead — and borrow the money via bonding if necessary. Otherwise, they say, some major high-tech companies won't come to its "silicon slopes," while congestion forces others to delay expansion.

"We don't want 'silicon slopes' to become 'silicon slow,' " Nathan Ricks, managing partner of Thanksgiving Park Development, told the Legislature's Transportation Interim Committee.

That committee — co-chaired by Sen. Al Jackson, R-Highland — heard arguments this week that the state made and broke promises to improve transportation to attract big companies such as Adobe. State officials deny that.

—

Promises, promises? • As an example, Rep. Jacob Anderegg, R-Lehi, said, "Part of the incentive package that was put together for Adobe included the commitment that the TRAX lines would be completed to their front door sometime around 2018."

The Utah Transit Authority has plans to extend light rail to Adobe someday, but not that soon. Anderegg said Utah economic officials similarly pledged to upgrade the freeway sooner than is now planned.

He said Adobe officials "put off the second phase of their construction, bringing an additional 800 to 1,400 jobs to Utah because of the perception of a failure" to keep promises.

Anderegg and Lehi Mayor Bert Wilson said they know of two Fortune 50 companies that looked at coming to Lehi, but are now stepping back.

"It is quite literally because they have had discussions with Adobe," Anderegg said, "and they have had conversations with a few others" who say transportation commitments were broken.

Salt Lake Tribune
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2738453-155/lehis-high-tech-company-says-utah-owes

[Scraperdude801]

why do they need to be in Lehi? Why don't they come to downtown where there is already transit, etc? We have enough surface parking lots and abandoned buildings owned by out-of-state/overseas land bankers. I know it isn't popular, but eminent domain exists for a reason, but it seems like it's only employed on the middle-lower class individual (7th E widening), and not the rich (Holding group,rich Koreans who own abandoned buildings on 300 S w/ no intention of developing, etc). Just the other day we were talking about the old rumor about the LDS church wanting to build a business park by the North Temple frontrunner station. We have huge swaths of land DT, and adjacent to it. Why is the state even considering deals to lure Fortune 50 companies to the outer reaches of civilization when they will require expensive, and extensive infrastructure spending (and unwanted sprawl), that will ultimately make our Business climate look bad if promises aren't kept. Why not sell DT to these tech companies?

On one hand, everyone is complaining about the air, and our business leaders/government officials are telling us a large part of the responsibility falls on the citizen to clean it up (which is true), yet it seems like everything we do in big business and development only serves to exacerbate the problem (Silicon slopes, Daybreak, moving the prison so it can become another office park, putting RSL in the burbs, getting the aquarium in the burbs , etc). everybody wants to build out in the middle of nowhere, but then they want the infrastructure to be built to them. It's nuts! if we just build things downtown, where they belong, we could build the best transportation network for less, increase tourism, help our national profile, and clean up our air by reducing the need to drive everywhere.

[Atlas]

Sounds like a bad business decision by Adobe. They should have just built downtown.

[Makid]

SL City is gaining tech jobs and slowly gaining additional relocations. Domo, Incontact and a few others have recently added to the presence in downtown SLC because of the changing demographics.

I would expect over time, additional tech companies to move to downtown for both transit and demographic reasons.

Lehi is growing and about 40% built out from the story. Adobe wants to have 2 more phases on the land it owns. Eventually, it wants to have between 8,000 and 10,000 people in Utah. Whether that is all in Lehi or not is not known.

What is known though is that the current infrastructure isn't enough to allow for another 2,000 at the Adobe campus let alone 8,000+.

The problem is that we need to work with companies that pay well such as Adobe to expand as it helps to attract other high paying companies to the state.

I am for the expansion of Trax to Lehi and beyond. But I will only support it if Utah County matches the level of investment that SL County does. This would mean matching their sales tax rates for transit. If SL County goes up in the fall, Utah County should match it, percent for percent.

This way they will show that they do want to invest in transit. It would also allow for moving faster various projects, including Trax to Lehi/Orem. It wouldn't come online until 2020 to 2025 though because they don't have an EIS for the Utah County portion.

I honestly think Adobe should work with Boyer to fill the 151 tower with new people. Maybe even have it go taller.

This would get Adobe more space in a place that has better transit options for the employees and the costs would be smaller than having to build it themselves as well as the parking. Just offer transit passes and parking would be able to be reduced for those that prefer to drive.

Besides, why should Adobe spend another $300+ Million in a Lehi campus when they can spend far less and have space in Downtown SLC. If they want to spend $300 Million in downtown, they can build a single 50 Story building with parking and still save money over Lehi.

[brankrom]

Why is anyone surprised that a bunch of tech people from Silicon Valley wouldn't like Northern Utah County? Taking people from one of the most progressive areas, both technologically and politically and plop them down in the middle of one of the most colloquial nutty anti-guvmint regressive backwaters in the country. Of course there's going to be a rub.

I lived in Northern Utah County for 7 years and the voters in Utah County voted against a transit infrastructure Sales Tax in 2000 with 77% of voters voting no. I know the mindset of Utah County.

[Future Mayor]

Wel said Makid, well said.

Build in the burbs and you deal with burb issues. It's pretty simple.


That has been my biggest gripe for many years. The Governors Office of Economic Development lures companies with incentives, but these incentives do not include true impact costs through proper impact fees. Yes I have supported reducing impact fees for residential construction in downtown SLC, but to not pass along impact costs to new companies building in vacant fields in the burbs is criminal. They get all these tax breaks and promises if they move to the state, but yet when they move to areas like Lehi, and eventually Draper the infrastructure isn't there to support what the new construction and new demand.

That was one of my big issues that I planned to address when I was considering running for city ctouncil, to have the GOED better promote downtown where incentives can remain, because the majority of the infrastructure is already in place, specifically road capacity and transit.

Adobe has the tax incentives, I am would venture to guess that they aren't Lehi specific. Boyer, Property Reserve or another major developer should approach them to build a building or a campus downtown. If they insist on a campus concept, Makid is right in that the N. Temple FrontRunner station would be an ideal location for a business campus atmosphere.

As has been mentioned on other threads, people want to live downtown, even Utah County youngins. Adobe and other high tech companies will be better able to attract out of state talent if they are in a downtown vs a sprawling burb in Happy Valley. While the Silcon Slopes are a real thing, and it's good for the Utah economy, I won't be surprised as more tech moves downtown. More convenient, car or transit, more companies can be closer to transit as opposed to just one or two. For instance, if Trax is extended to Adobe, then that serves Adobe great, but that doesn't help any of the other businesses such as Xactware that has a new building up on the higher slopes. Nobody is going to take trax and walk 2 miles to get there.

Yes many of these companies like to provide amenities to their employees, such as basketball courts and sand volleyball courts, but if you think about it, why did they start doing that in the first place? My opinion is that working in the burbs SUCKS and people got sick of having nothing to do and nothing to look at before, during and after work, especially during. So in order to continue to attract employees, rather than move the office to a city environment, which naturally gives employees something to do before during and after work, they choose to add these amenities, which seems to have worked for many years, but I think employees are going to start expressing their opinions by choosing firms in downtowns.

[Stenar]

They're holding open houses in Herriman and Riverton this week to discuss the transit options from Daybreak TRAX to the Draper Frontrunner station through Herriman and Riverton.

[Stenar]

Oops!

[Hatman]

Preferred alternative route of what? That looks suspiciously like a light rail alignment, the way it goes off the road network for a while.

Interesting.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Hatman

Preferred alternative route of what? That looks suspiciously like a light rail alignment, the way it goes off the road network for a while.

Interesting.

The preferred alternative route from Daybreak TRAX to Frontrunner Draper station (as I said at the top of the post).

Those are roads that in some areas haven't been built, yet. The exact alignment isn't shown. This is an approximation.

I believe this preferred route is BRT, but there was one alternative where TRAX was extended from Daybreak to the Herriman Towne Center and then BRT the rest of the way.

[Hatman]

Thanks for answering my question. I've seen some pretty wild LRT-specific alignment proposals floating around, and I wondered if perhaps one of them had been made official. As much as I dislike the idea of picking the route before the mode (they should be designed together to maximize each mode's best efficiencies), this isn't a bad route compared to others I've seen.

Originally Posted by Stenar

there was one alternative where TRAX was extended from Daybreak to the Herriman Towne Center and then BRT the rest of the way.

I think this is the best idea yet. I could support this.

[SL,UT]

Land is cheap in the burbs. Land is astronomical downtown. The CFO's of all those tech companies will always choose the cheeper place to build 90 percent of the time...

Besides, tech companies like massive sprawling corporate campuses and Salt Lake City doesn't have the space for that.....

[Makid]

They do have different alignments based on mode. The BRT mode and alignment selected as the preferred route did have more TOD options available. LRT running the BRT route was determined to be to expensive currently for less than 2% ridership gain over BRT.

I don't think we will see the BRT to LRT conversion until 2045 or later. It may happen around the same time as the 5600 BRT to LRT conversion happening around 2045 (current schedule based on funding and MVC timing).

Although around the 2040/2045 timeframe, I can see Utah County pushing a possible 2nd Trax line. 1st would be Lehi/Orem and into Provo. The 2nd would be Herriman to Saratoga Springs with a future extension to Eagle Mountain. The 2 Trax lines and Frontrunner could be linked by the currently planned BRT line.

Conversely, the BRT to LRT conversion may happen sooner if the Prison Relocation goes smoothly and the property is zoned and planned accordingly to increase transit efficiencies. But that might only move it up to 2035/2040.

[Stenar]

The "Possible Future Redevelopment" stop after Herriman Towne Center on the above preferred route map has been announced as a CenterCal development, a Farmington Station Park type development, by the same company that developed in Farmington. Although, the property in Riverton is larger and will have some features that Station Park does not have.

[Hatman]

Features that Station Park does not have, such as actual integration with the transit station for which it is named? (crosses fingers)

If there must be large commercial developments at least let them integrate with transit!

In other news, UTA is again testing an electric bus, but this time not an articulated 60-foot BRT bus, but a regular 40 bus. (Though judging by the height of that back door, probably also a BRT bus.) This lends credibility to the rumor that UTA is serious considering the electric buses for the BRT route.

The advantages of the electric bus:

• Quiet - you can carry on a conversation on the bus without shouting
• Cheaper maintenance - no big engine, exponentially fewer moving parts
• Lower fuel/energy costs - electricity costs less than gas for equivalent energy
• Higher energy efficiency - the article says this bus gets the equivalent of 23 mpg. That is a huge deal, as the regular city bus usually gets between 3-4 mpg. That's 5-7 times more efficient!

The only downside is cost - and at this point, that's becoming a smaller deal. UTA can certainly afford the up-front costs (because the operating costs will be so much less), and if they can lump the bus purchases together with an infrastructure project, (say, BRT!) then they aren't really losing any money by paying higher up front costs!

There is nothing to lose! UTA, GO ELECTRIC!

[jubguy3]

I swear if the busses aren't 60 feet I will post angry comments on the tribune about it until I die

[urban.cyclist]

Does anyone happened to the plan to make a TRAX line from the University to the Airport? I thought it was supposed to be in place by the summer but I haven't heard anything about it for months.

[Hatman]

I haven't heard anything either. It's still in the works, UTA got a Federal grant of some kind to get it going, and they wouldn't want to give that money back... I'm guessing we'll hear more about this after the sales tax vote this fall.

In the meantime, UTA needs to redo its bike cars on FrontRunner! Below is a picture of FrontRunner's bike car, which has 9 spots, as compared to the new Tri-Rail (Miami) bike car, which has 14 spots. It's the same type of car, but Miami's holds more and there's no need to lift your bike out over other bikes that get in the way. I'm still confused as to why UTA chose the type of bike rack they did.


http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/pass...ail-says-take-the-bike-to-the-train.html

[asies1981]

Podcast with Salt Lake Transportation Director, Robin Hutcheson. Anyone interested in transit within SLC boundaries will enjoy this one-I assume that is all of you