Winnipeg Ice

[trueviking]

Crazy that they are moving to a town that is 2/3 the size of Brandon.

[thurmas]

Seems any team called ice or ice caps doesn't last very long.

[snowmobile]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Crazy that they are moving to a town that is 2/3 the size of Brandon.

Huh? There is 116,000 in Wenatchee metro area. That’s like saying Transcona isn’t Winnipeg.

[trueviking]

Except transcona is a suburb of a big city.

I won’t pretend to be an expert in Wenatchee census numbers but looking at a map, it appears Wenatchee and East Wenatchee make up a small stand alone city of closer to 45,000. Basically Brandon. The other population in the Wenatchee–East Wenatchee Metropolitan Statistical Area is in scattered towns and villages in a huge ‘metro area” of about 12,000 square kilometres.

[BlackDog204]

Sad, but not unexpected.

The logic of placing a WHL team in a small market NHL city, already supersaturated with sports teams was a bad fit.

At least the Ice were a great team while they lasted.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I won’t pretend to be an expert in Wenatchee census numbers but looking at a map, it appears Wenatchee and East Wenatchee make up a small stand alone city of closer to 45,000. Basically Brandon. The other population in the Wenatchee–East Wenatchee Metropolitan Statistical Area is in scattered towns and villages in a huge ‘metro area” of about 12,000 square kilometres.

Kind of like the greater Kelowna-Penticton-Vernon area?

[esquire]

Wenatchee awareness in Winnipeg has skyrocketed this week. This is skyscraperpage, how about some skyline shots?



Hmm, kind of does have BC interior vibes.

[Only The Lonely..]

I've been to Wenatchee about a dozen times.

I used to sell software and did training with the school division out there.

The town is about a four hour drive from Seattle over the mountains (very beautiful drive), and sits in the U.S. Okanagan valley. It's the Apple capital of the world! If you buy a bag of apples in the U.S. it probably comes from Wenatchee.

Lots of migrant Mexican fruit pickers out there. I remember there being local tv stations in spanish. Great Mexican food!

Basically, it's a continuation of the Columbia river valley that starts in BC. The place sits in a desert and can be very toasty in the summer time. The Columbia river runs through the middle of town and is quite the site to behold. A very large and incredibly dangerous fast moving river.

The town always felt somewhere between Brandon and Grand Forks sized to me. I can't say I have any memory of an arena being there.

[Only The Lonely..]

Thinking about this some more..

I suppose this would be the second time this city has lost a hockey team to a desert city, read into that what you will.

From first hand experience, I can tell you that Winnipeg is a bonafide metropolis compared to Wenatchee.

Wenatchee and Eastern Washington as a whole is a much poorer part of the state compared to Western Washington / Seattle metro.

The economy there is 100% agriculture, fruit picking, tractor sales, etc.

My guess is that the average household income in Winnipeg is quite a bit higher.

It's a shame, I get the impression that we are losing our hockey team for no other reason than a lack of a suitable facility to play in, this market has an enthusiasm for junior hockey.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Except transcona is a suburb of a big city.

I won’t pretend to be an expert in Wenatchee census numbers but looking at a map, it appears Wenatchee and East Wenatchee make up a small stand alone city of closer to 45,000. Basically Brandon. The other population in the Wenatchee–East Wenatchee Metropolitan Statistical Area is in scattered towns and villages in a huge ‘metro area” of about 12,000 square kilometres.

This.

There is a touristy area around Lake Chelan which is about 45 mins away that likely contributes to their population count.

There's also another Morris sized (Bavarian style) mountain town with a very neat urban renewal story (that you should lookup) called Leavenworth that adds to their population.

Essentially, it was a dying logging town in the 1960s and they rebuilt the town to look like an alpine village which became a major tourist draw. Had my birthday out there one year and did 4th of July stuff. You'll have to Google image it.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Thinking about this some more..

I suppose this would be the second time this city has lost a hockey team to a desert city, read into that what you will.

From first hand experience, I can tell you that Winnipeg is a bonafide metropolis compared to Wenatchee.

Wenatchee and Eastern Washington as a whole is a much poorer part of the state compared to Western Washington / Seattle metro.

The economy there is 100% agriculture, fruit picking, tractor sales, etc.

My guess is that the average household income in Winnipeg is quite a bit higher.

It's a shame, I get the impression that we are losing our hockey team for no other reason than a lack of a suitable facility to play in, this market has an enthusiasm for junior hockey.

I am annoyed by the WHL.

They thought they would swoop into town and get a free arena from the ICE owners as a league showpiece. The path turned out to be harder than expected. The pandemic came in and disrupted those plans. But instead of continuing to build up the team's fanbase and get closer to a point where a new arena was viable, they decided to cut and run. Which is too bad, I think a new building would have been great for mid-sized sports draws like the ICE, Sea Bears, curling, smaller concerts and other events.

Winnipeg held a lot of potential as a WHL city, this is a town where people know and understand the game. Yes it's a crowded market, but the WHL requires only a fraction of the resources of a NHL team. But a WHL team still has quite a high profile - it's a pretty high value proposition from that perspective. I think it also would have done a lot for the WHL in the long run to have a strong Winnipeg market. Now the WHL will go back to being more or less ignored here except by a tiny handful of people.

What's the over/under on the WHL's tenure in Wenatchee? 5 years maybe? I'll take the under.

[rrskylar]

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...key+League.pdf

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by esquire

Great. But after several disappointing seasons, their biggest name players now want out.

Do you believe everything you hear on Facebook lol. Yes PLD wants out. He said so a year ago. Helle has not once said he wants out. However every stupid sports page loves making shit up. Who else wants out? And do you really want to keep PLD and $9 million for 8 years I'd end up with a guy worse then Wheeler in the end ? We still have a great core and once Wheeler is gone we'll be fine.

I'm so tired of the constant the ship has sailed. It hasn't sailed at all.

[Boreal]

The arena or lack thereof is the overriding factor and Winnipeg, WHL or not, needs a mid-sized modern venue pretty badly. All of that said, the sporting landscape in this city was getting pretty crowded with all of the new teams and perhaps modest emergence of University basketball. It was almost inevitable that one would fall, and I wouldn't be stunned if there was one more to close up shop within 12-18 months.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Boreal

The arena or lack thereof is the overriding factor and Winnipeg, WHL or not, needs a mid-sized modern venue pretty badly. All of that said, the sporting landscape in this city was getting pretty crowded with all of the new teams and perhaps modest emergence of University basketball. It was almost inevitable that one would fall, and I wouldn't be stunned if there was one more to close up shop within 12-18 months.

The fan and corporate support was there for the ICE IMO. The lack of an appropriate building was the sole obstacle. For whatever reason, Winnipeg is in the somewhat strange position of having absolutely nothing at all between the NHL building and community minor hockey/beer league type rinks.

Every prairie city has a secondary rink that is bigger and better than Winnipeg's #2 rink, which is Wayne Fleming Arena. That includes Regina and Saskatoon. Hell, Saskatoon's number two rink would have solved all the ICE's problems if it could have been duplicated here.

For what it's worth, I would like to see junior hockey succeed here and I hope Fettes and Cockell haven't given up on it completely. With a little effort I think they could turn their MJHL teams into something along the lines of what the ICE were even if the MJHL obviously lacks the star power of the WHL. In Winnipeg, people tend to think of junior A hockey as a trivial thing played in front of a few parents and girlfriends, but in a lot of places it's a fairly significant draw... this is what junior A hockey looks like in some other western Canadian cities where it is well marketed:







I don't expect the Blues or Freeze to start drawing 2,000 fans a game, but with the right effort and a move to Wayne Fleming Arena now that the ICE are out, I could see them build up enough of a fanbase to provide at least a little atmosphere at their games and help the Winnipeg MJHL teams pull their weight instead of being a black hole of fan support. Maybe they could even pull in enough money so those poor kids don't have to shell out into the five figures a year just to play.

[wags_in_the_peg]

This season, both Blues & Freeze are both playing out of Hockey for All Centre (aka Iceplex). Last year Blues played out of RINK and Freeze Iceplex. Previous year Blues at RINK and Freeze were at Dakota CC arena. The "divorce" from the RINK is final sounds like. For those that don't know 50 Below bought RHA program plus 2 big Spring & Summer youth hockey programs. A falling out w previous RHA / RINK and they took back, but they kept ICE, Freeze, Blues and all the spring summer programming (called PLAY hockey) now.

[wags_in_the_peg]

My son has signed w a MJ team so I'll be at 50+ games this season!

[Danny D Oh]

I'm interested to see if some stories hit the Free Press on the Ice or if they just move on without digging into the story.

Little bits of info coming out that really suggest the ownership group sold the WHL a bill of goods and were in full scramble mode pretty much the whole time once they were allowed to move the team.

I wonder if the arena was the problem or the deception.

I know the other members of the WHL hate the travel across the prairies and that always works against the idea of Winnipeg. But holy shit having the Winnipeg media market engaged along with another easily accessible NHL market is such a draw for players. The Ice pulled in a bunch of guys that were headed to the NCAA but changed their path when they got a chance to play in Winnipeg with the eyes of NHL GM's nearby.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

This season, both Blues & Freeze are both playing out of Hockey for All Centre (aka Iceplex). Last year Blues played out of RINK and Freeze Iceplex. Previous year Blues at RINK and Freeze were at Dakota CC arena. The "divorce" from the RINK is final sounds like. For those that don't know 50 Below bought RHA program plus 2 big Spring & Summer youth hockey programs. A falling out w previous RHA / RINK and they took back, but they kept ICE, Freeze, Blues and all the spring summer programming (called PLAY hockey) now.

This goes to the question I asked earlier... what happens to the large ICE clubhouse facility at The Rink now? Does RHA just use it for their own purposes? I have been in the ICE's facilities at The Rink as recently as this past winter and it would not have been cheap to build, it's huge and nicely finished and still felt new on my last visit. It's somehow crazy to think that although the ICE never got an actual arena, their dressing room and clubhouse were built just a few years ago and now they are no longer necessary.

And oh yeah, congrats to your son on signing with a MJ team! That has to be exciting news for him.

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

I'm interested to see if some stories hit the Free Press on the Ice or if they just move on without digging into the story.

Little bits of info coming out that really suggest the ownership group sold the WHL a bill of goods and were in full scramble mode pretty much the whole time once they were allowed to move the team.

I wonder if the arena was the problem or the deception.

I know the other members of the WHL hate the travel across the prairies and that always works against the idea of Winnipeg. But holy shit having the Winnipeg media market engaged along with another easily accessible NHL market is such a draw for players. The Ice pulled in a bunch of guys that were headed to the NCAA but changed their path when they got a chance to play in Winnipeg with the eyes of NHL GM's nearby.

Good points. At one time something like this would have been the subject of a deep dive by the local press but I'm not sure they have the resources to do that now.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around here. I think the 50 Below guys meant well, i.e. I don't think they were pulling a scam as some have suggested. I think the trouble was that their business plan was a bit of a dream. They went on a wing and a prayer but the pandemic disruption absolutely destroyed any chances of success that they might have had.

The league was naive in thinking that granting a team to Winnipeg would magically make a showcase arena materialize for them to show off. When it became clear that the new arena wasn't going to happen anytime soon, they stopped pretending to give a crap about the Winnipeg market and walked away.

After this debacle, it is hard to imagine the WHL coming back to Winnipeg anytime soon. Who would trust them or believe anything they say? Realistically it could only work with TNSE's complete buy in as either the team owner, or as the host venue (as with the Sea Bears). No one else would come across as credible. The WHL has basically poisoned one of the largest markets in its territory.

I wonder if the USHL might be interested in Winnipeg?

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by esquire

I wonder if the USHL might be interested in Winnipeg?

I can't really imagine that ever being viable with costs in USD.

Hopefully if people want a fix of junior hockey they support the MJHL. Winnipeg has been a deadzone for the league going on 30 years since the St Boniface Saints had a bit of a run.