London Roads

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Roundabouts on arterials would work well in suburban residential areas. That's where they're primarily popping up in Waterloo Region.

As part of the Sunningdale Widening study, roundabouts are proposed for the Wonderland and Adelaide junctions with Richmond remaining as an intersection with a roundabout suggested as an alternative.

Roundabouts would also work well where there is a lot of turning traffic. Best Example I can think of where one would work is Wonderland and Oxford as there is room for one there if the gas stations are redesigned.

For heavy-turning intersections like Wonderland and Oxford, I think another good idea would be to have the traffic signals be green with a left arrow in stages for each of the four traffic movements, with left turns permitted from both the designated turning lane and the leftmost thru lane. Kingston actually replaced a roundabout with an intersection with this type of setup, and it works really well. I've heard that the old roundabout was "awful" at rush hour.

Here's a Google Street View image of said intersection.


Print by manny_santos, on Flickr

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Coming from Toronto I honestly don't know why everyone is complaining so much about London drivers. I'm back in the Imperial Capital for Christmas, and in less than a week I've used my horn more than I would during an entire month in London. People do not check their blindspots, they do not signal, they cut you off only to drive incredibly slow, they do not obey the yield-to-the-right rule at stop signs, and worst of all they cannot stay in one lane to save their lives. I've had at least a half dozen people wander quite far into my lane, usually on multi-lane freeway ramps or on the extra-curvy Don Valley Parkway. Approaching the broken line is OK... having half your car over it is not. And don't get me started on all the German cars and small-penis compensating SUVs weaving in and out of traffic.

Oh, and this “the-three-vehicles-turning-left-after-the-light-has-turned-red” phenomenon? Clearly nobody in London has spent a couple months driving around Scarborough. This is a regular occurrence here.

EDIT: I love the guy in the LFP column who complains "Anytime you’re in a lane that ends, good luck getting in. . . . London drivers have the idea that they’re going to teach a lesson to somebody trying to merge". I've never had an issue merging in London; throw on your signal, wait 3-4 clicks and usually people will give you room. I have a feeling he's one of those people who either surges ahead of traffic in the right lane and then expects to get in, or blissfully ignores the "Lane Ends 400m... 300m... 200m..." signs and then tries to enter at the last minute. Either way, screw you. You deserve to learn a "lesson" if that's the way you drive.

Absofuckinglutely. On all counts. I just spent some "quality" driving time in the two imperial capitals (Ott and Tronto). The asshole brigade was out in full force.

[Whisper09]

You will find idiots in every city you go to. I dislike when people say "This city's drivers are worse." Well, there's an idiot in every city, sometimes you run into them more than other times. I prefer to drive in Toronto because everyone "Goes with the flow," if you may call it that.

Everyone also complains that taxi drivers are crazy. Well, yes, if you had to drive 8 hours or whatever a day in a city full of seniors, I would go crazy too. It's just like any other job; the first day, you will work by the textbook and throughout your job you find shortcuts to make your job easier, just like taxi's, buses, etc.

Going on another topic. I have one question regarding road paint in Canada. If we get WHITE snow annually, why do we use WHITE paint for our roads? You can't see the bloody road lines. Make it Orange or something; I can at least see the yellow piercing through the snow, but hard to see the white. I have to imagine it's there and follow tire treads.

Lastly, at the intersection at Westmount Mall. They really need to move the street lights from where it is now:


To here:


I only bring this up because of how stupid people are to not use the lights. Every time a movie is over, I see everyone use the non-light entrance. It's pretty hard to make a left turn across 4 lanes, especially when there's 10 cars ahead of you trying to do the same thing. Why do people dare to go across 4 lanes of traffic when there are alternate routes? I see it all the time. People don't think when they drive, that's the big issue.

[K85]

I work with troubled kids and teens. Just because I want to yell at them to make my job easier doesn't make it OK to do... They are the laziest of professions at times it seems, and when they do illegal shit, or cut me off to catch a fare, I make sure I fuck with them right back.

Originally Posted by Whisper09

Everyone also complains that taxi drivers are crazy. Well, yes, if you had to drive 8 hours or whatever a day in a city full of seniors, I would go crazy too. It's just like any other job; the first day, you will work by the textbook and throughout your job you find shortcuts to make your job easier, just like taxi's, buses, etc.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by haljackey

You guys might like Canada's Worst Driver. They're doing a marathon of it on Discovery over the holiday season.

I don't need that show to remind me how many morons there are on the road. It infuriates me how some of those people can even get their license to begin with.

Originally Posted by Whisper09

You will find idiots in every city you go to. I dislike when people say "This city's drivers are worse." Well, there's an idiot in every city, sometimes you run into them more than other times. I prefer to drive in Toronto because everyone "Goes with the flow," if you may call it that.

That's the problem I find with Toronto. Everyone does not "go with the flow", they're constantly trying to cut around you because it's a physically massive city with very poor transportation infrastructure, and at a subconscious level a lot of people feel a need to drive like assholes in order to get home in a timely manner. Truth is, most of the time traffic lights will make sure you don't make much progress doing that.

Originally Posted by Whisper09

Going on another topic. I have one question regarding road paint in Canada. If we get WHITE snow annually, why do we use WHITE paint for our roads? You can't see the bloody road lines. Make it Orange or something; I can at least see the yellow piercing through the snow, but hard to see the white. I have to imagine it's there and follow tire treads.

Orange is harder to see at night than reflective white, and considering there is no snow on the roads about 96% of the time (major roads are cleared pretty quick), I don't think it would be an overly beneficial change in the end.

[K85]

New record for me... followed a guy driving 57... 57!!! up Highbury in the 100 part of it. It wasn't snowing, and the lineup behind, at my count, of 7 cars, didn't persuade this fella to drive any faster. I had to merge behind to take the ramp to Commissioners, and even my honk and flash seemed to make him assume I was the angry driver cuz he was being safe. At least that's what I could read from his face and the woman beside him lipping me off...

[Honest Scientist]

I think the worst drivers in the city are those who try and turn LEFT out of a large commercial parking lot that is nearly full at a non-signal-controlled exit against HEAVY traffic on a major artery, when there is a signal-controlled option nearby that takes them out of the same lot!

Worst examples are dummies turning left to go south from the Costco entrance on Wonderland Rd N - there is a signal-controlled option 30m south at Farrah/Wonderland. Can also exit east onto surface streets that lead to Proudfoot/Oxford

Another is when idiots are trying to turn left/east out of Cherryhill Mall's east exit (near the Shoppers Drug Mart) when there is a signal-controlled option at the west end near the Metro.

Why do people try this? Stupidity? Absent-mindedness? Pigheadedness? Sense of entitlement?

Actually the city should prohibit both these lefts!

And I'm sure there are a few other examples.

[MolsonExport]

Why do people try this? Stupidity? Absent-mindedness? Pigheadedness? Sense of entitlement?

also, assholery.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by K85

New record for me... followed a guy driving 57... 57!!! up Highbury in the 100 part of it. It wasn't snowing, and the lineup behind, at my count, of 7 cars, didn't persuade this fella to drive any faster. I had to merge behind to take the ramp to Commissioners, and even my honk and flash seemed to make him assume I was the angry driver cuz he was being safe. At least that's what I could read from his face and the woman beside him lipping me off...

I think the most infuriating drivers are those who are convinced that they are always right, and it's everyone else who has problems. My friend's mother is like that... she drives at around 40-50km/h in the passing lane on arterials with limits of 60 km/h because she believes it's her duty to make people slow down and drive safely. The same logic applies to freeways, where she (thankfully?) increases the speed to around 100 km/h. My friend and I, and many other people, have told her that this is hazardous behaviour, and her response is "well if everyone else wants to die, let them!"

That being said, I think even she would consider driving more than 40 under the limit on a freeway to be unsafe. Did the guy at least have the decency to stay in the right lane?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by K85

New record for me... followed a guy driving 57... 57!!! up Highbury in the 100 part of it. It wasn't snowing, and the lineup behind, at my count, of 7 cars, didn't persuade this fella to drive any faster. I had to merge behind to take the ramp to Commissioners, and even my honk and flash seemed to make him assume I was the angry driver cuz he was being safe. At least that's what I could read from his face and the woman beside him lipping me off...

And I thought I had it bad today when I was in Hamilton...stuck behind someone doing 50 in a 70 zone, and it wasn't snowing.

I just arrived back in Kingston. Awful, awful driving. And some very aggressive drivers on the 401 while it was snowing. I'm thankful to be alive.

[haljackey]

All cities have idiot drivers, but better road design will help make the roads safer and more efficient.

London has bad roads, thus craziness becomes the norm. I just wish people would use some common sense when it comes to driving. It's not hard to drive at a safe, efficient speed and be curious to other drivers. Roads are not designed for selfish drivers as that's not the most efficient way of doing things.

[Whisper09]

Originally Posted by K85

I don't think you understand what I was saying.

No I don't

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Whisper09

My friend is a terrible driver. He failed taking his G2 test 4 times!!! Yes he passed it on the fifth but does that make him a safer driver? Not at all.

I failed my G once because I honked at a jaywalker instead of slowing down. Bad Torontonian habits die hard.

Originally Posted by Whisper09

You can't drive by not being aggressive. I'm not saying you have to be a raging cunt. I prefer to drive in Toronto over London because I feel people know how to drive in that city. But that's just my opinion.

I don't mind aggressive drivers; what I don't like are aggressive drivers who have very little real control over their vehicles and don't understand the rules of the road. I'm cool with people darting in and out of traffic if they have space to do it, I'm not cool with people moving into the vehicle length I left in front of me so I can stop in case of an emergency. That's not "knowing the city", that's just being a jerk.

Originally Posted by haljackey

London has bad roads, thus craziness becomes the norm. I just wish people would use some common sense when it comes to driving. It's not hard to drive at a safe, efficient speed and be curious to other drivers. Roads are not designed for selfish drivers as that's not the most efficient way of doing things.

I've found that by following James May's doctrine of "Christian Motoring" (ie not being a jerk and being courteous to other drivers), I'm far more relaxed and I tend to get to my destination in about the same amount of time. All that and you burn less fuel, too. Mind you my standard speed is about 10 over the limit.

[haljackey]

If you're following any local news you'd know about all the budget debates.

Last year, nearly all major road projects were deferred to later years in order to maintain a tax freeze. A measly 8 million was spent on road projects last year, and no new roads or road widening took place.

Major projects from 2012 were:
-Finishing touches to Wonderland N widening
-Finishing touches to Sarnia CPR bridge
-Improvements to Horton through SoHo (finishing touches 2013)
-Improvements to Fanshawe/Highbury intersection (finishing touches 2013)
-Talbot reconstruction (top coat of asphalt to come in the spring)


The road budget for 2013 is expected to be be ~30 million, nearly 4x that of 2012, and I'm sure much of it will be slashed before the budget is approved in February.

Major projects for 2013 currently are:
-Southdale W widening from Wonderland to Warncliffe
-Oxford W widening from Sanatorium to Hyde Park
-Sarnia widening from new CPR overpass to Wonderland

Multi-year projects planned to get started this year include:
-Hyde Park Widening from Fanshawe to Oxford (to be complete by 2015)
-Old Victoria reconstruction from Hamilton to 401 (to be complete by 2016)
-Wonderland/401 interchange (to be complete by 2016)
-Wellington widening from Commissioners to Exeter (to be complete in phases between 2014-2018, will total 6 through lanes from Base Line to Roxburgh)

...Now let's see just how much of that actually gets built.

Main source of info: http://www.london.ca/budget/Budget_2012/2012%20Capital%20Budget/Growth.pdf

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

If you're following any local news you'd know about all the budget debates.

Last year, nearly all major road projects were deferred to later years in order to maintain a tax freeze. A measly 8 million was spent on road projects last year, and no new roads or road widening took place.

Major projects from 2012 were:
-Finishing touches to Wonderland N widening
-Finishing touches to Sarnia CPR bridge
-Improvements to Horton through SoHo (finishing touches 2013)
-Improvements to Fanshawe/Highbury intersection (finishing touches 2013)
-Talbot reconstruction (top coat of asphalt to come in the spring)


The road budget for 2013 is expected to be be ~30 million, nearly 4x that of 2012, and I'm sure much of it will be slashed before the budget is approved in February.

Major projects for 2013 currently are:
-Southdale W widening from Wonderland to Warncliffe
-Oxford W widening from Sanatorium to Hyde Park
-Sarnia widening from new CPR overpass to Wonderland

Multi-year projects planned to get started this year include:
-Hyde Park Widening from Fanshawe to Oxford (to be complete by 2015)
-Old Victoria reconstruction from Hamilton to 401 (to be complete by 2016)
-Wonderland/401 interchange (to be complete by 2016)
-Wellington widening from Commissioners to Exeter (to be complete in phases between 2014-2018, will total 6 through lanes from Base Line to Roxburgh)

...Now let's see just how much of that actually gets built.

Main source of info: http://www.london.ca/budget/Budget_2012/2012%20Capital%20Budget/Growth.pdf

That Bradley Ave extension just keeps getting pushed further and further back. I remember when that was practically shovel-ready in 2007.

I think that Southdale is the highest priority right now, followed by Hyde Park. I just don't see Wonderland/401 as a high priority compared to some of the others.

[Pimpmasterdac]

I don't think that council will be deferring the planned road widening this year. They're right on the verge of being completed with utilities already being moved and property being expropriated.

As well the Southdale widening project happened to be in the wards of Dale Henderson & Van Meerbergen, both of whom are in Fontana 8. I don't see Oxford being deferred either as its in a very wealthy and influential area, near the Hunt club.

If anything Sarnia is an off project to do, since the city only wants to widen it between Hyde Park & Wonderland. The idiotic 3 lane step up between Wonderland & near Western Road will remain INTO THE 2020s.

Anyway though, deterring road projects that should've happened decades ago isn't going to be good for economic growth..

[ssiguy]

I remeber years ago there was a plan to build a new section of Adelaise south of Commissioners to Southdale to releive Wellington. Is that still on the books?

As far as just outside the city I think twinning Wellinton from the 401 to St.Thomas is a must as is twinning the Komoka Road from Byron/Oford extention to the 401. It has a fast growing population and would releive a lot of the commuter traffic from Strathroy and people coming in from Sarnia.

[haljackey]

The Adelaide Street connection between Commissioners and Southdale was effectively cancelled in the 1970's. Environmentalists protested the connection because it would go right through the environmentally-sensitive Westminister Ponds area.

In fact I wrote a essay on it for a course at Western... In the end arguing that a compromise could have been reached if Adelaide jogged to the east and paralleled the rail line around the ponds.


Regarding a 4-lane connection between London and St. Thomas: not going to happen anytime soon. These roads are no longer provincial highways (with the exception of some of Cl. Talbot which is Highway 4 between Highways 402 and 3) and need funding from the cash-strapped municipal and county governments.
-I saw recent plans (as of last year) that showed Wonderland Road as an eventual 6-lane arterial to the 401 interchange. It could one day continue as a 4-lane highway (perhaps a divided highway/expressway) to the St. Thomas Expressway (Highway 3).
-Highway 4 may be widened between Highway 402 and 401 when the 401 interchange is rebuilt. If not the new overpass should have the ability to support 4 through lanes on Cl. Talbot.


I don't see a 4 lane Komoka Road heading to Strathroy... Just can't envision it.


Regarding the road projects this year, I'm hoping none of the major projects will be slashed... but we'll have to wait and see.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Yet another moment in London's poor follow through in planning. Adelaide had tons of suitable routes they could have choose.

As haljackey mentioned there were a few railway routes they could have had...





As well as "pond routes" that skirted parts of Pond Mills, mostly going through a former landfill next to it.





But of course the NIMBYs complained, designs were as far as it ever went. The Highbury interchange at Bradley was the consolation prize, to serve the industry out there, which is now pitiful thanks to the lack of southern extension. There was some talk in the early 2000s of resurrecting the extension but its a dead issue. Too bad since it would be a great relief off Wellington, which is a zoo rush hour, and on weekends.

[haljackey]

Free Press and Metro had articles about the road projects today... Can only find a link for the LFP though:

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/01/21/sound-barrier-worth-2-million-rejected-for-veterans-parkway

The Sarnia Road widening may be pushed back a year to save money. The other projects are also at the mercy of the budget approval.