Salt Lake MSA Development Thread

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

I bet this will be placed in some gross suburban area like South Jordan or Herriman. I think it best to place these kinds of destinations in close proximity to one another. Even within walking distance of each other. For example, on capitol hill. therefore those interested in viewing these types of government monuments won't have to make so many trips around the valley in order to see all of them. I really hope it will be located somewhere in the Capitol City (Salt Lake). That seems to make the most sense.

I think a really good place for it would be Liberty Park.

[ctobsl]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

I think a really good place for it would be Liberty Park.

I like both ideas, but I am leaning towards the Capital grounds.

[delts145]

Salt Lake City Resorts:

Deer Valley #1 : Once again, King of the Mountain


SKI Magazine

by Nan Chalat Noaker

Park City residents can practically roll out of bed onto the slopes of two of the nation's top ten ski areas three, if you count the top 25.
SKI Magazine has released its annual readers' survey and the results are being cheered with high fives and fist bumps all along the Wasatch Back.

Deer Valley held onto its No. 1 spot, Park City Mountain Resort moved up from sixth to fifth place and The Canyons hopped from 18th to 13th place.

According to SKI Magazine editor Greg Ditrinco, "people are looking for more than just putting skis on snow. They are looking for the full resort experience." And that, he says, is where Park City's resorts shine.

It's as much about going downtown as skiing, "and that is where your region does well," he said. According to Ditrinco, the resorts' efforts to provide a wide variety of activities along with the city's vibrant Main Street are "as good as it gets."

Deer Valley Resort President Bob Wheaton delivered the news to his staff on Wednesday during h his annual "State of the Valley" message. It is the fourth time in the last eight years the magazine's readers have put Deer Valley on top. The resort edged out one of its fiercest competitors, Vail Resort for the second year in a row.

According to Deer Valley's director of marketing Coleen, Reardon, the resort's secret weapon is its guest services. "I think it's our services, the way we provide the whole vacation experience." Reardon said she also believes that the price gap among the country's top ski areas has narrowed, "so people are realizing Deer Valley's value."
The ranking's sneak preview was greeted with equal enthusiasm at Park City Mountain Resort. According to Krista Parry, PCMR's marketing director, "we saw a huge increase in rankings in service, family programs and terrain variety, which coincides with the things we have been focusing on as a company."

Ditrinco attributed the uptick for The Canyons to its relative newness and to its ability to earn return visits. "The Canyons is still being discovered by our readers. They seem to like what they see and they are going back."

SKI Magazine mails out about 25,000 copies of the annual survey that asks readers to rank ski areas in 18 categories. They also sent about 30,000 emails linking subscribers to a secure Web site survey. According to Ditrinco, they get 10-15 percent, or 5,000 to 8,000 completed questionnaires back each year. The results, along with snapshot descriptions of each ski area appear in the October edition which arrives on newsstands this week.

"It is our best-read issue. It's the absolute bible for travel planning," he said.

The top five ski areas in North America according to the readers of SKI Magazine are:


#1. Deer Valley, Utah

2. Vail, Colo.

3. Whistler/Blackcomb, B.C.

4. Snowmass, Colo.

5. Park City Mountain Resort, Utah

Building a Five Star Icon: Latest Construction Pic Updates - St. Regis, Deer Valley



Pics Link: http://www.slide.com/r/7pVSYp-T1D_8pvzdxo3S1nXJP0YaNCxt

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[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

I bet this will be placed in some gross suburban area like South Jordan or Herriman. I think it best to place these kinds of destinations in close proximity to one another. Even within walking distance of each other. For example, on capitol hill. therefore those interested in viewing these types of government monuments won't have to make so many trips around the valley in order to see all of them. I really hope it will be located somewhere in the Capitol City (Salt Lake). That seems to make the most sense.

Memory Grove, even though its forgotten by a lot of people who don't live in the Capitol Hill/Avenues neighborhood, would be another perfect spot for a memorial like this. It would fit in with the Capitol grounds or Liberty Park as well, but my personal pick would be Memory Grove.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

I bet this will be placed in some gross suburban area like South Jordan or Herriman. I think it best to place these kinds of destinations in close proximity to one another. Even within walking distance of each other. For example, on capitol hill. therefore those interested in viewing these types of government monuments won't have to make so many trips around the valley in order to see all of them. I really hope it will be located somewhere in the Capitol City (Salt Lake). That seems to make the most sense.

This is something I wouldn't mind being in Sandy as it looks tacky.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by Stenar

This is something I wouldn't mind being in Sandy as it looks tacky.

I hate to complain about a military memorial, but this is actually a pretty crappy design:



Something like this deserves a memorable location and a memorable design, but this isn't it. Its just some concrete walls in a circle. It looks like one of a thousand other memorials around the country.

It actually reminds me of the "Freedom Shrine" along the Jordan River Parkway in Murray:



A boring concrete plaza with boring concrete walls that is largely ignored because there is nothing about it that draws people to actually look at it.

[jmonkey]

arkhitektor, why do you hate America so much??

I think this freedom monument looks like it costs at least a buck-o-five.

[aspiringArchitect]

So, I was flipping through and old SKI magazine of mine lately, and I happened to stumble across an article about Utah's plans on wanting to connect seven major ski resort together with either a tunnel or a series of chairlifts. They would connect the two canyons and Park City resorts together in hopes of reducing traffic congestion for years to come. (They have seen what has happened to Colorado and California in recent years and don't want Utah to be anything like that)

I know this is old news, but I was just curious if anything new has come up with this. It is good that Utah is preparing for the future, but at the same time, I can understand why people may not want this to happen.

[cololi]

Originally Posted by aspiringArchitect

So, I was flipping through and old SKI magazine of mine lately, and I happened to stumble across an article about Utah's plans on wanting to connect seven major ski resort together with either a tunnel or a series of chairlifts. They would connect the two canyons and Park City resorts together in hopes of reducing traffic congestion for years to come. (They have seen what has happened to Colorado and California in recent years and don't want Utah to be anything like that)

I know this is old news, but I was just curious if anything new has come up with this. It is good that Utah is preparing for the future, but at the same time, I can understand why people may not want this to happen.

I think this is one of the worst ideas ever. The cost is extreme and the tunnel would have serious long term maintenance issues. Skier numbers in Utah are far below that of CO or CA. We do not have the room for that many skiers at our current resorts, never mind parking them, they wouldn't be able to move around on the mountain. While CO and CA have a lot more skiers, they also have way more acreage dedicated to ski resorts. I think the cheapest most cost effective is to limit the number of cars and only allow buses up once the max has been reached, make the roads toll roads for visitors with less than 3 people in a car and use the revenue to cover the cost of avalanche control and clearing the road.

[delts145]

Just a correction on the skiable acres in Utah vs. Calif. or Colo. While Colorado is still at the top in skiable acres, the spread is not nearly as much as some would imagine. The margin between Calif. and Utah is very thin, with Utah predicted to easily pull into 2nd behind Colo., withing the next ten years.
Utah skier days are also growing at a much faster rate than other USA/Canadian destinations including Colorado for that matter. While Colo. will still log over 12 million skier days to Utah's 4 million-plus, it is only a matter of time before Utah catches up. This due to the proximity of urban centers and their growth, and a major airport. Location, location, location, "as the old saying goes." Since the 2000/2001 season alone, the Wasatch has increased it's skier visits by 25%. This at a time where most areas have been relatively stagnate. One can only imagine what's going to happen as the major new Wasatch urban resorts come on line as proposed, and the major development of the Ogden area, The Canyons,(especially now that the developer has been ruled legitimate by the courts) and the Brian Head area continues over the coming years.

I'm not trying to debate the issue of a tunnel between Little and Big Cottonwood Canyons. However, given the predicted growth of the urban area and it's close proximity to the resorts, something must definately be done as far as the traffic and parking issues. I like your ideas on parking and traffic limits Cololi. If there were going to be any kind of interconnect between the resorts, it should be configured in such a way as to direct the flow originating from Park City/The Canyons area. Interstate 80 is much better equipped to handle future traffic than say The Cottonwoods.

Also, as many of us have discussed and placed on our wish list, I think that mass-transit rail should be viewed as a viable future for the I-80 corridor. A FrontRunner or BackRunner could flow from the metro up to the Snyderville Basin and over to Heber Valley, servicing a skier interconnect from the Park City area, and of course, the growing Wasatch Back.

.

The top ten Western States with the most 'skier designated' acres are as follows:

1. Colorado 35,908
2. California 27,325 (taking into account that 50% of Heavenly is in Nevada)
3. Utah 26,100
4. Montana 17,546
5. Idaho 14,964
6. Washington 12,872
7. Oregon 10,698
8. Wyoming 5,437
9. New Mexico 4,791
10 Nevada 3,825

[SLC Projects]

Utah still has the best snow on earth.

[cololi]

Delts,

ItnerInteresting numbers. Chalk me up to one who assumed. I am glad however that I stick to the backcountry and don't have to wait in those lines which are getting longer and longer.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Utah still has the best snow on earth.

Very much agreed on that Projects!!!

Cololi, when you say backcountry, do you also mean cross-country? I'm a big geek when it comes to working out on my Nordictrack five days a week for many years now. I've always told myself I was going to do more than just downhill and branch out into cross country, but have never gotten around to it. Maybe this year...LOL

[cololi]

Originally Posted by delts145

Cololi, when you say backcountry, do you also mean cross-country? I'm a big geek when it comes to working out on my Nordictrack five days a week for many years now. I've always told myself I was going to do more than just downhill and branch out into cross country, but have never gotten around to it. Maybe this year...LOL

Not true cross country, I put climbing skins on the bottom of my skis, hike up into the backcountry (usually across the highway rom Alta) and then find a fun, safe place to come down.

[aspiringArchitect]

Delts
"One can only imagine what's going to happen as the major new Wasatch urban resorts come on line as proposed, and the major development of the Ogden area"

I'm sorry, but can you please elaborate? Are there more resorts planned for the somewhat-near future?

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by aspiringArchitect

Delts
"One can only imagine what's going to happen as the major new Wasatch urban resorts come on line as proposed, and the major development of the Ogden area"

I'm sorry, but can you please elaborate? Are there more resorts planned for the somewhat-near future?

I'm not sure what delts was referring to, he can speak to that, but things like the new St. Regis hotel at Deer Valley, while not a new SKI resort, it is in itself basically a new resort in the hotel/destination sense that will attract new/more visitors to Deer Valley.

Also, Kennecott is contemplating a ski resort in the Oquirrh Mountains on the west side of the Salt Lake valley. I don't know when/if an Oquirrh resort will happen, but I think it is a great idea.

[Future Mayor]

I assumed by "Urban Resort" Delts was refering to the Oquirrh Resort planned by Kennocott that Stenar mentioned. Having a resort so close to the airport could easily create an even larger percentage of growth for the number of skier days and would most likely put is at #2 on the number of acres.

The proposed Oquirrh Resort would be the closest ski resort to a major international airport, anywhere in the world, if I'm not mistaken.

[SLCforme]

Originally Posted by cololi

Not true cross country, I put climbing skins on the bottom of my skis, hike up into the backcountry (usually across the highway rom Alta) and then find a fun, safe place to come down.

Me too! But I snowboard and hike up the mountain with snowshoes on. I'm thinking of getting a splitboard soon, but not sure if I can scrape the money together. Once you have hiked back into a canyon with all the solitude and splendor of the Wasatch in winter, then glided down the powder with every turn a perfect freshy, the resorts just lose some of their appeal. I hardly ever go to resorts anymore, it just isn't the same. Plus I love the workout of hiking up the mountain and not freezing on a lift.

[delts145]

You're right Future Mayor, that is one of the resorts I had in mind. I think we'll definately see another major resort somewhere in the Summit or Wasatch County area. It might not be that one that was proposed as a new 'Aspen,' but something will definately happen in that area, as soon as the economy stabalizes. Another area to watch will be the Cedar City ski areas, as a major getaway for Las Vegans and St. George. Also, now that the Canyons have been cleared for Talisker development by the courts, there should be major happenings there over the next five years. The Canyons will be developed as the largest single ski area in the U.S., even larger than Vail. Also of course, are the three resorts above Ogden, which will be the future 'Park City like' trifecta of Utah.

Here's a little article talking about the recent ruling in the battle of Talisker and Vail Resorts. That these two resort development giants were fighting tooth and nail over The Canyons Resort, gives us an idea of what the planned potential and profit is for that ski area. Believe me, it's enormous! Just the planned build-out of The Canyons alone will put Utah in the 30,000 acres range.



Talisker Prevails in Battle for Park City Resort with $123M Purchase

By Barbra Murray, Contributing Editor, CPN - Commercial Property News

-- After a year of competing bids and lawsuits, The Canyons resort in Park City, Utah, has finally gotten a new owner.

Talisker Corp. forked over $123 million to American Skiing Co. for the 3,700-acre property, beating out competitor Vail Resorts after having entered into a contract in July 2007 to make the acquisition for $100 million in cash.

It has been a long, convoluted 12 months for the parties involved in The Canyons sale. Last year, less than two weeks after Talisker announced its agreement with ASC to buy ASC Utah Inc.--the subsidiary that owned The Canyons--Vail Resorts cried fowl, submitting a letter to ASC in which it upped the ante to $110 million. In the letter, Vail Resorts noted that a period of exclusivity had been established with its potential acquisition partner Peninsula Advisors, but that following subsequent issues with Peninsula, Vail Resorts had been in the midst of finalizing its own deal with ASC, despite Peninsula's threat to sue ASC if the company sold the property to Vail Resorts. In addition to topping Talisker's bid by $10 million, Vail Resorts' CEO noted in the correspondence that the company had initiated legal action against both Talisker and Peninsula regarding the purchase of The Canyons.

And American Skiing--which was planning its exit from the ski resort business with the disposition of the Park City property, its last asset--had other problems. Wolf Mountain Resorts, owner of the land The Canyons occupied, was in the midst of litigation with ASC regarding land lease issues. In December 2007, a court ruled that Wolf Mountain did not have the right to obstruct ASC's sale of The Canyons to Talisker.

With all pertinent lawsuits in the past, Talisker is now the resort's official owner and major changes are afoot. DuVal Development Partners I L.L.C. is developing the upper-upscale Dakota Mountain Lodge, which will be a Waldorf=Astoria Collection property and will sit at the base of the resort. Dakota will encompass 170 million dollars-plus in condominium hotel residences--for a total of 334 guestrooms--in two structures.

Headquartered in Park City, Talisker is a private real estate development and investment concern focusing resort, residential, retail and commercial properties. Also based in Park City, American Skiing Co. had been an operator of alpine ski, snowboard and golf resorts.
.

[cololi]

I think the Oquirrh resort is a long ways off. there is also a planned ski resort on the west side of Bear lake near Garden City. This is probably a pie in the ski type of proposal, but it does have a bit of traction, meaning it is in the land assembly and design phase.

I know of some land owners and developers that are very serious about developing a ski area on the east facing slopes of the wasatch due east of the Bountiful/Farmington area (skyline drive area). The resort would be accessed from the wasatch back, which requires a major investment in a long road, but it can be done. I have skied in the area via snowmobile in the last two winters and the snow quality is typical Utah. The terrain is very similar to the Canyons, but the base would be about 1,000 feet higher (7500 feet) and the snow is much more consistent due to the lake effect pipeline that flows over the Bountiful bench. The owners have about 10 years of snow surveys that indicate an average of 450" at the top and about 400 at the base. The failure of the largest investment companies may put this off for a few years, but I think this has a very real chance of happening.

The Cottonwoods will not see any new resorts, but expansion is a very real possibility. Alta wants to expand, and owns the land to do it, onto the north side of LCC. This includes Grizzly Gulch and the Emma Ridge. Brighton has long wanted to expand into Snake Creek Canyon and eventually down into the Midway area. Both the Canyons and Park City Mountain Resort are trying to acquire land that is between the two resorts and expand onto it. Deer Valley is aggressively pursuing private property on and around the peak called "10420" on the south side of Gaurdsman Pass. SLC is trying to purchase as much land in Big and Little Cottonwood canyon watersheds to protect water quality and as been very successful in stopping a lot of development in the canyons. They thwarted two major propsoal by not granting access or purchasing land in Cardiff Fork and on the north side of BCC, which would have resulted in PCMR having a base in the canyon. Solitude is unlikely to expand, although the top of Silver Fork has always been desired by them. Powder Mt. is probably looking at the largest expansion and provide direct access to Cache Valley.