Atlanta Beltline

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by trainiac

Here's the best shot I came up with

They are supposed to save the two large oak trees on the left. It's amazing how many different ways there are to approach this park..... and none of them gave me a good photo angle!

nice job trainiac, that is an awesome pic, thanks for posting.

4WP is going to be beautiful....and IMHO, i think it will be more stunning with all the mid-rise development that is taking off in the surrounding areas bordering the park.

along with the piedmont park north woods expansion, these two parks demonstrate that the beltline has velocity and provides tangible results in one of the most positive ways. i think a year from now, people will have a completely different view of the beltline and buzz among the community will change from being one of question to one of excitement and anticipation.

i agree with smartatlone re: ga power, you would think that could move that facility without alot of grief.....hopefully that will happen very soon.

[shivtim]

I just dont understand why people choose to live in the city if they hate density and transit so much. Move to the suburbs and let us have a real urban Atlanta.


NPU F rejects Beltline proposal for 10th and Monroe
Beltline planners’ idea: Allow mixed-use buildings at an intersection that could equally serves pedestrians, motorists and the project’s transit component, and voila, you’d have a nearby smart-growth village and a grand gateway befitting the city’s most iconic greenspace. The proposed four- and eight-story allowances, Beltline officials said, could help make the project more competitive for federal transit funding and pay for greenspace, trails and intersection improvements at 10th and Monroe and throughout the project area. (One possibility bandied about was converting the gravel lot next to Park Tavern — referred to by one planner as a “five-acre eyesore”— into greenspace and relocating parking underground.)
...
But residents — who stressed that their opposition wasn’t a vote against the Beltline as a whole, just the proposal — felt differently. They said the proposed vision would contradict previously approved plans to preserve the property as open space, contribute to congestion along Monroe Drive, and encroach upon adjacent residential neighborhoods. In doing so, residents argued, the vision Beltline officials said was needed to help make the $2.8 billion project a reality would violate one of its own aims: to enhance and preserve existing single-family neighborhoods. What’s more, residents feared the changes would allow developers to take advantage of a legal loophole and possibly construct even taller buildings.




http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/freshlo...ts-beltline-proposal-for-10th-and-monroe

[cybele]

Well to play the devil's advocate one of the charms of Atlanta is its low density single family neighborhoods. The overwhelming majority of people who live in neighborhoods like Virginia-Highland (99 to 7 in this case) are there because that's what they want. Once the developers get a toehold with one of these "4 to 8 story" buildings it's Katy bar the door. The neighborhoods could be overrun with traffic.

Isn't one of the goals of the Beltline to spread out development all over the city instead of just cramming it into the Northside? Build up some of the other areas first and then if someday there's demand for more housing in NPU-F they can go back to the drawing boards.

[shivtim]

^ That would make sense, if there weren't already a 10-story building at that very intersection.

As far as traffic, look at where the traffic already is. The heaviest traffic isn't around high density areas filled with skyscrapers, it's in the single family neighborhoods with low connectivity. Just try driving down Briarcliff, North Druid Hills or North Decatur at 4:30 on a Friday. Meanwhile, traffic flows just fine through Midtown and downtown.

The residents are clearly worried about this specific intersection (which I live 1/2 mile from, by the way), but don't seem to understand that the Beltline plan would help with traffic by improving connectivity and providing transit while making the intersection safer for pedestrians and bikers. As it stands now, that intersection is an absolute nightmare.

[ATLaffinity]

this is what i feared.

they really should just pull out of that area. it's tedious dealing with those assholes.

we need to group together all the sane area residents to voice some support for the proposal.

if you polled people like myself live in Midtown but not right on the Beltline, it would get about 90% approval.

[Curious Atlantan]

Originally Posted by cybele

Well to play the devil's advocate one of the charms of Atlanta is its low density single family neighborhoods. The overwhelming majority of people who live in neighborhoods like Virginia-Highland (99 to 7 in this case) are there because that's what they want. Once the developers get a toehold with one of these "4 to 8 story" buildings it's Katy bar the door. The neighborhoods could be overrun with traffic.

Isn't one of the goals of the Beltline to spread out development all over the city instead of just cramming it into the Northside? Build up some of the other areas first and then if someday there's demand for more housing in NPU-F they can go back to the drawing boards.

If this is the "charm of Atlanta" then why even bother building the Beltline with transit and development around it, it is not going to work anyway without the density.
Just build a trail. People who want to live in a vibrant city can move somewhere else.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by cybele

Well to play the devil's advocate one of the charms of Atlanta is its low density single family neighborhoods. The overwhelming majority of people who live in neighborhoods like Virginia-Highland (99 to 7 in this case) are there because that's what they want. Once the developers get a toehold with one of these "4 to 8 story" buildings it's Katy bar the door. The neighborhoods could be overrun with traffic.

the intersection of 10th and monroe (and most of the 10th street and monroe drive corridors) are probably more reflective of multi-family demographics than they are single family. these are people, much like many in atlanta, that cannot look beyond their own provincial and niave interests. geez, they purchased a home one of the busiest intersections in what is arguably one of america's fastest growing cities, what did they expect.

Originally Posted by cybele

Isn't one of the goals of the Beltline to spread out development all over the city instead of just cramming it into the Northside? Build up some of the other areas first and then if someday there's demand for more housing in NPU-F they can go back to the drawing boards.

unless i missunderstood your comment, the assumption that BL is cramming development into the northside is just not true, in fact, it couldn't be further from the truth. it is clear one of the primary goals is to foster development around and withing the beltline development areas/TAD's, of which the intersection of 10th resides. these areas have been clearly identified by BL planning and they've been approved by the city.....in addition, there are dozens of points around the BL; north, south, east and west where proposed re-debvelopment carries similar density.....this area is not singular in it's vision. on a side note, i understand there is little opposition to the reworked vision of the ansley mall superblock, which appears to be a much more significant rework of the existing property. some people get it, and others don't.

more so, the BL strategy is to engage the neighborhoods so that issues like this rise to the surface, to say the city is cramming anything is inflamatory and incorrect. the BL has a proactive process of community outreach....they gather information from the community, present tentative plans and gather additional feedback, it's a back and forth that's been going on for several years now.

=ATLaffinity] they really should just pull out of that area. it's tedious dealing with those assholes.

there are a few areas around the city where the routh of the BL is/or can be variable, however, i don't think this intersection is one of them. it will be interesting to see how the city addresses this issue moving forward as they consider this plan and the neighborhoods resistance.

[ATLaffinity]

Piedmont Park and the NE Beltline need an "edge". we don't need a grass trail next to the park. we need density.

Anders Duany put it best: there's nothing interesting about Central Park except that it's surrounded by tall buildings.


Who do we contact at City Hall for the next phase?

I think the Beltline people have done a piss-poor job of gathering momentum or support. they aren't going to find support at these BS MNA and NPU mtgs. they would find it if they reached out to condos and people outside of that narrow area.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by Curious Atlantan

If this is the "charm of Atlanta" then why even bother building the Beltline with transit and development around it, it is not going to work anyway without the density.
Just build a trail. People who want to live in a vibrant city can move somewhere else.

Well what's wrong with a trail?

As for transit there's already a ton of it in that area, although you have to wonder how many of the people who live there actually use it.

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

Piedmont Park and the NE Beltline need an "edge". we don't need a grass trail next to the park. we need density.

Anders Duany put it best: there's nothing interesting about Central Park except that it's surrounded by tall buildings.


Who do we contact at City Hall for the next phase?

I think the Beltline people have done a piss-poor job of gathering momentum or support. they aren't going to find support at these BS MNA and NPU mtgs. they would find it if they reached out to condos and people outside of that narrow area.

^This is the only section of the Beltline plan that has seen any real neighborhood opposition. They've already changed the plans and reduced height and density based on neighborhood suggestions. I'm not sure what more they could do. The fact of the matter is that the Beltline is planning for future growth of the city while these people have the goal of seeing nothing change in their neighborhood. These two goals are just not compatible. At the end of the day, the city council has to decide what is best for the city as a whole.

Originally Posted by shivtim

^ That would make sense, if there weren't already a 10-story building at that very intersection.

As far as traffic, look at where the traffic already is. The heaviest traffic isn't around high density areas filled with skyscrapers, it's in the single family neighborhoods with low connectivity. Just try driving down Briarcliff, North Druid Hills or North Decatur at 4:30 on a Friday. Meanwhile, traffic flows just fine through Midtown and downtown.

The residents are clearly worried about this specific intersection (which I live 1/2 mile from, by the way), but don't seem to understand that the Beltline plan would help with traffic by improving connectivity and providing transit while making the intersection safer for pedestrians and bikers. As it stands now, that intersection is an absolute nightmare.

Great point. Theres going to be traffic on Monroe anyway because of the lack of connectivity.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

geez, they purchased a home one of the busiest intersections in what is arguably one of america's fastest growing cities, what did they expect.

Well a lot of people moved there because it was a nice quiet leafy neighborhood, not because it was some huge bustling urban area. That's why they are showing up in overwhelming opposition to turning it into a dense multi-story zone. If there are residents who favor changing the status quo into something else, then they should show up and make their voices heard. From the looks of things, only a handful want to see the situation change.

more so, the BL strategy is to engage the neighborhoods so that issues like this rise to the surface, to say the city is cramming anything is inflamatory and incorrect.

Well you are right, that was a poor choice of words on my part. From what I've seen it's a back and forth process however it looks like very few in that area want what the Beltline is pushing for.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

if you polled people like myself live in Midtown but not right on the Beltline, it would get about 90% approval.

You have to wonder why they don't show up and say so however. Only a tiny fraction of those folks down there in Atlanta even bother to vote.

[shivtim]

^ I live in the area and had no idea the meeting/vote was taking place. These things are not well publicized, and the vote does not actually represent the community.

Also, I am all for protecting some of Atlanta's single-family neighborhoods. That's why Midtown has a residential historic district. I love the character of Virginia Highlands. Claiming that placing a few 4 to 8 story buildings and transit along what is already a very busy commercial corridor will somehow destroy these neighborhoods... that seems naive at best.

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by cybele

You have to wonder why they don't show up and say so however. Only a tiny fraction of those folks down there in Atlanta even bother to vote.

well, it's more motivating to be against something.

this would be more of an opportunity missed thing to its supporters.

and most people don't realize that there is this nutty minority opposing EVERY idea.

the traffic engineer for the Beltline answered every complaint with ease. but that can't compete with "I live here and I think I know what's going to happen to traffic."

[cybele]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^ I live in the area and had no idea the meeting/vote was taking place. These things are not well publicized, and the vote does not actually represent the community.

Well the NPU agendas are online and of course the Beltline has a big website.

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

most people don't realize that there is this nutty minority opposing EVERY idea.

Well it doesn't sound like a minority on this one. The article says there were 99 against it and only 7 in favor. The other NPU had turned it down too. If you're sitting up there on the city council you've gotta be thinking, "The people have spoken loud and clear."

[ATLaffinity]

^ now i think you're just baiting...

[cybele]

I don't understand what you mean. That's what the Loaf said. They also said this was one of the most politically active parts of the city. How else would the council interpret it?

[shivtim]

Do people have to proove residence in the NPU in order to vote at these meetings?

[ATLaffinity]

I didn't know the NPUs just had some mass vote.

I never knew NPU-E had some vote on this.

The people in historic midtown have been very "cloak and daggers" about the whole thing. they know they need to keep it pretty quiet. they don't want all of midtown involved.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Do people have to proove residence in the NPU in order to vote at these meetings?

Well their bylaws say:

Any resident, as defined in Article II, Membership, desiring to vote at an NPU-F meeting, shall sign in on an official sign-in sheet. He/she shall list his/her address and present reasonable proof of residency. The Chairperson of NPU-F (or his/her designee) shall have final discretion in determining if “reasonable proof” of residency has been presented for qualification as a voter.

I would think a drivers license or utility bill or something like that would be enough.

http://npufatlanta.org/NPU-Fbylaws-for2008.pdf