Arizona Center Development

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I really don't get it. This place should easily be filled with generic fast-food tenants given the student, hotel and office population nearby not even including the apartments that have gone in over the last couple of years.

I don't understand why they cant get it rolling. Im talking subway, Burger King, Filiberto's, Buffalo wild wings etc.

Seems like it should easily fill up with tenants.

They had a Subway (and a Starbucks) and they both pulled out. I'm wondering if they are just asking to much per sq ft or poor management? Something had to drive these tenants out. It couldn't have been the lack of clientele. Even now as empty as everything is, it's always bustling with students whenever I am down there.

[halicem]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

They had a Subway (and a Starbucks) and they both pulled out. I'm wondering if they are just asking to much per sq ft or poor management? Something had to drive these tenants out. It couldn't have been the lack of clientele. Even now as empty as everything is, it's always bustling with students whenever I am down there.

Starbucks corporate re-focused post-pandemic and closed down almost all corporate-run Starbucks stores that didn't have a drive-thru window. Most egregious example of that in the valley was in Chandler Mall where the lines were always crazy long but still had to be shuttered as per policy.

Other chains could pick it up: like Press Coffee or Black Rock. Press would be nicer but they already have a branch one block over (and unlikely to move with their connection to Tram Mai and 12 News). And Black Rock I've yet to see without a drive-thru window too. Cartel is too hipster to consider a non-ironic location. A downtown outpost of Lux Coffee could be a black horse, and it could transform the space immensely.

AMC dominates the space and I really wish a developer like Vestar could pick it up -- they know how to build around a movie theater entrance and Arizona Center is essentially one big paseo to AMC.

The other non-standard theater arrangement in town I can think of is the Esplanade at Biltmore (AMC owns their space on top of the parking garage). The Esplanade (owned & managed by CBRE) is undertaking a $45M renovation -- they're kicking out lower-level office spaces surrounding the courtyard and transforming the first 2 floors into outdoor commercial.

That reminds me, Mercbar is at the Esplanade and they do a lot of business out of dates grabbing a drink before/after the movie (or after grabbing dinner at Flint since restaurants around the area close at 10pm), an open late bar in Arizona Center could work too imo... Dinner -> movie -> post-movie drinks. I know there are a lot of options for that downtown but most people don't like to walk far and don't want to move their car to find another parking spot.

(sorry, I just unloaded all my hopes and dreams on this post lol)

[xymox]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

It sold for $125M back in 2015. this can't be right LOL

https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...lion/77496744/

Have you seen the news about the CRE market in general? Buildings in other cities like Baltimore are selling at a 65% discount. The market in general is going through a difficult time now. Opportunists are picking up what they can on the cheap.

[az_daniel]

Originally Posted by halicem

That reminds me, Mercbar is at the Esplanade and they do a lot of business out of dates grabbing a drink before/after the movie (or after grabbing dinner at Flint since restaurants around the area close at 10pm), an open late bar in Arizona Center could work too imo... Dinner -> movie -> post-movie drinks. I know there are a lot of options for that downtown but most people don't like to walk far and don't want to move their car to find another parking spot.

These are my own hopes and dreams lol but honestly if Arizona Center would lean more into the nightlife, venue, and arts scene i think it would be great. In a way it bookends the north side of what I would consider to loosely be the "convention district" and is a nice transition between the stadiums/convention center and roosevelt. An anchor tenant - something like meow wolf or wonderspaces - would be super cool and fit right into the vision for the convention area. or perhaps it could work as a formal year-round public market. its tough to work with something that is so internally focused and integrate it into the street.

just my own pie in the sky vision for AZ center lol

[combusean]

There's no possible way the two office buildings and retail pavilion sold for $27 million...that's less than the value of the land. Maybe that assumes debt that wasn't part of the sales price?

[CrestedSaguaro]

OMG, STOP!

None of this has anything to do with Arizona Center or development! Now I have to go through and delete every one one of these off-topic posts.

[combusean]

I will respond to Daddy Crested with something relevant:

I wonder what it's like at Arizona Center for people trying to explore it at 110+ degree heat.

The design never made sense to me at all, like most of Phoenix area heat mitigation architecture.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

I will respond to Daddy Crested with something relevant:

I wonder what it's like at Arizona Center for people trying to explore it at 110+ degree heat.

The design never made sense to me at all, like most of Phoenix area heat mitigation architecture.

The shaded garden between the office towers and the retail portion is actually quite pleasant in almost all weather. That area is hidden from the street, though, so it doesn't see much foot traffic, and the two restaurant spaces that actually face that space have been vacant for several years now.

[exit2lef]

The Arizona Center has been sold to new owners. Let's hope they can do something with the place:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...x/70743189007/

[combusean]

It dawned on me just now that the fact the second floor is not for lease and presumably occupied precludes much of what they do with the first, namely demolishing it and starting over.

The retail will never kickstart when the AMC is as bad as it is either. Any retail area this big needs an anchor tenant, and AMC is just not doing the job.

And I don't know why more people point out that the renovations are ugly as sin. The 5th St side with the 1990s stucco and the tacked on combination of mesh and graphic/advertising panels next to the original design elements are an eyesore. The whole building is an embarrassment.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Yea, I agree. I liked the look at first. But the more time that passes, the more I realize how much of a hack-job the redesign has made everything look and I like it less every time I walk through there.

[MMDelon]

They should completely start over and reimagine the Arizona Center. I think these plans need to include somehow incorporating the convention center and the Sheraton. If the City is able to go through with redeveloping the south convention center, you can created an entertainment district that leads into Chase Field and Footprint Center. But I think for this to work certain streets around Chase Field will need cut off and skywalks will need to be built.

[combusean]

^ They're not going to start over when the top floor is leased up. If I remember correctly it's some architecture firm, confirming to the trope of architects holding office in the worst buildings imaginable.

[Stijl]

That'd be SmithGroup as the main tenant upstairs, they took over what used to be the food court in the center building. There used to be a second Arch firm also upstairs, above the former Subway / Hooters space, but last time I checked in on them was like two decades ago.

SmithGroup just finished up a major remodel of their space that seemed to take two or three years to complete (at least it was over Covid I suppose). At least I'm assuming they've finished at this point...

And while not a great building / complex, most of their office overlooks the park space and not the storefronts, so it isn't all that bad.

[thespiandave]

It looks like there’s positive movement with the new owner. All of the four sit-down restaurants are being gutted! I hope that’s a sign of new tenants to come soon.

https://imgur.com/gallery/kOR9tpb

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by thespiandave

It looks like there’s positive movement with the new owner. All of the four sit-down restaurants are being gutted! I hope that’s a sign of new tenants to come soon.

https://imgur.com/gallery/kOR9tpb

I noticed that. I've also seen a "high-rise site for sale" sign on the surface parking lot between the garage and Fillmore.

[combusean]

We would have heard something if there was leasing activity. I suppose they're just gutting it now to make the place shovel ready. No way somebody is going to want to keep dated, gross fixtures that haven't been used in years. The old owner should have realized that.

[J_PHX]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I noticed that. I've also seen a "high-rise site for sale" sign on the surface parking lot between the garage and Fillmore.

If they were able to develop that north surface parking lot and convert the northern half of the AMC to a Target/grocery store or something then revamp the AMC I feel like that could have a huge impact! ~wishful thinking~

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by J_PHX

If they were able to develop that north surface parking lot and convert the northern half of the AMC to a Target/grocery store or something then revamp the AMC I feel like that could have a huge impact! ~wishful thinking~

We've talked about a Target downtown before and I concur that would be wonderful but I think big box retailers are very nervous to expand in city centers of late. The trend has been the reverse. I was thinking about this when I happened on the news today about crime at Christown Mall, where the Target there is a leader for retail theft.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...y/70837706007/

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

We've talked about a Target downtown before and I concur that would be wonderful but I think big box retailers are very nervous to expand in city centers of late. The trend has been the reverse. I was thinking about this when I happened on the news today about crime at Christown Mall, where the Target there is a leader for retail theft.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...y/70837706007/

yeah, crazy, I just read there are 9 Target stores closing soon, 3 in The San Fran area, 3 in Portland, 2 in Seattle and 1 in NYC. It sounds like strictly due to theft, Not online shopping. No matter your politics, they really need to get a hold of this huge theft issue across the country and start prosecuting criminals. Ironically I walked up to Walgreens on Central and Thomas just now and the deodorant is now locked up and they now have a cop there on site. So much stuff going on, hopefully common sense policies can prevail but I’m losing faith in leaders these days.