Sports in Canadian culture

[esquire]

I don't have numbers to back any of this up but Manitoba crushes at curling. Until the last couple of decades when a larger number of elite players started coming out of Alberta, MB was pretty dominant.

Surprisingly we weren't that great at producing NHLers. I'm pretty sure Sask must blow us out of the water on a pound for pound basis. When I was a kid there weren't really many NHL stars from Manitoba (at least none that I can recall) and hardly any players from Winnipeg itself, especially in light of how many amateur teams there are here. Eddie Belfour and Theo Fleury changed that, and then Jonathan Toews gave Winnipeg its first bona fide NHL star in many years.

CFL players seem fairly evenly spread out. Seems to me that as with all athletes, most come from the major population centres of Montreal-Vancouver-Southern Ontario but the prairies punch above their weight too. Man/Sask have sent guys to the NFL in recent years as well.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

Surprisingly we weren't that great at producing NHLers. I'm pretty sure Sask must blow us out of the water on a pound for pound basis. When I was a kid there weren't really many NHL stars from Manitoba (at least none that I can recall) and hardly any players from Winnipeg itself, especially in light of how many amateur teams there are here. Eddie Belfour and Theo Fleury changed that, and then Jonathan Toews gave Winnipeg its first bona fide NHL star in many years.

NHL players by province, 2017-2018 (at least one game played):
Ontario: 200
Quebec: 60
Alberta: 59
British Columbia: 48
Saskatchewan: 32
Manitoba: 32
Nova Scotia: 8
New Brunswick: 2
Prince Edward Island: 2

Total number of Canadian NHLers was 428 in 2017-2018. Ten years ago it was roughly 500. Most of the losses have been seen in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Quebec, and Newfoundland. Quebec in particular has seen a big decline in both the quantity and quality of their NHL players in the past decade or so. Ontario has held steady in both quality and quantity and Nova Scotia has seen a big jump in quality. Three of Nova Scotia's eight players are Crosby, Marchand, and Mackinnon which is....pretty good, all things considered.

[esquire]

^ Interesting numbers.

I'm not surprised that Manitoba and Saskatchewan have drawn closer in recent years... there seems to have been an uptick in Manitoba players making it while Sask's numbers have dropped a bit. But when I was a kid it seemed as though there were so many NHLers from Sask while Manitoba basically had Ron Hextall and James Patrick.

Maybe my perception is coloured by the fact that I came of age during a low ebb for Manitobans (and particularly Winnipeggers) in the NHL.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Interesting numbers.

I'm not surprised that Manitoba and Saskatchewan have drawn closer in recent years... there seems to have been an uptick in Manitoba players making it while Sask's numbers have dropped a bit. But when I was a kid it seemed as though there were so many NHLers from Sask while Manitoba basically had Ron Hextall and James Patrick.

Maybe my perception is coloured by the fact that I came of age during a low ebb for Manitobans (and particularly Winnipeggers) in the NHL.

Top 10 Scorers, Saskatchewan, 2007-2008:
Ryan Getzlaf, Brendan Morrow, Chris Kunitz, Patrick Marleau, Scott Hartnell, Wade Redden, Brooks Laich, Jarrett Stoll, Colby Armstrong, Mike Sillinger (plus Ward)

Top 10 Scorers, Saskatchewan, 2017-2018:
Brayden Schenn, Ryan Getzlaf, Jordan Eberle, Jaden Schwartz, Mathew Dumba, Patrick Marleau, Tyler Bozak, Blake Comeau, Chris Kunitz, Scott Hartnell (plus Holtby & Dubnyk)

Seems to me that Sask has shed the fourth line forwards that they were developing and have nearly increased the number of defenseman they're producing. Couple good ones coming in the next few years.

[Airboy]

Mark Messier and Fred Saskamoose get the order of Canada.

[osmo]

Saskatchewan still seems to punch above its weight in regards to the calibre of its NHL exports. Blue-chip players seem to come out of Sask more than the others relative to population. I always wonder if it because with the long cold season you get more opportunity to play. I also believe that Sask junior A system is one of the better ones in Canada, alongside the WHL as the (IMO) historically stronger junior league that plays a crucial role in player development.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Airboy

Fred Sasakamoose gets the order of Canada.

I was almost bawlin' watchin this. Couldn't have picked a more worthy recipient.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by JHikka

NHL players by province, 2017-2018 (at least one game played):
Ontario: 200
Quebec: 60
Alberta: 59
British Columbia: 48
Saskatchewan: 32
Manitoba: 32
Nova Scotia: 8
New Brunswick: 2
Prince Edward Island: 2

Total number of Canadian NHLers was 428 in 2017-2018. Ten years ago it was roughly 500. Most of the losses have been seen in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Quebec, and Newfoundland. Quebec in particular has seen a big decline in both the quantity and quality of their NHL players in the past decade or so. Ontario has held steady in both quality and quantity and Nova Scotia has seen a big jump in quality. Three of Nova Scotia's eight players are Crosby, Marchand, and Mackinnon which is....pretty good, all things considered.

That puts Canada's NBA representation into perspective. For all the talk of this being the golden age of Canadian basketball we still only have 12 Canadians in the whole league.

There are 491 players on NBA rosters; 383 are American. If we were to 'equal' the US in the production of NBA players we'd need to have 42-43 Canadians in the league given the 9:1 population ratio between the US and Canada.

This surely is the golden age of Canadian basketball but we still have a long way to go to reach 42-43 players. I can see Canada getting up to 25 players by 2025 but to get higher we'd need good basketball talent coming out of every province. Up till now it's been Ontario doing the heavy lifting. That's slowly changing though. There have been increasing numbers from Nova Scotia, Quebec, BC, and Alberta.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by megadude

Rugby is BC.

This is changing. Ontario has won the CRC in 5 of the last 7 years, including 4 in a row from 2011-2014. Rugby Canada's BC bias/focus is slowing down the process, but Ontario's population and growth in rugby popularity mean we're probably equal to BC ins terms of "hotbed". There are also talks of Toronto and Vancouver joining MLR next year, with the Ontario Arrows ahead in terms of actually playing exhibition games this year.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by jonny24

This is changing. Ontario has won the CRC in 5 of the last 7 years, including 4 in a row from 2011-2014. Rugby Canada's BC bias/focus is slowing down the process, but Ontario's population and growth in rugby popularity mean we're probably equal to BC ins terms of "hotbed". There are also talks of Toronto and Vancouver joining MLR next year, with the Ontario Arrows ahead in terms of actually playing exhibition games this year.

Interesting.

In addition to that them, I wonder if the success of the Toronto Wolfpack could swing a few kids away from other sports and into rugby, thereby producing a few more serious rugby players over the coming years. Enough for the GTA to become a "hotbed".

Looking at the roster from the last WC now. I assumed there would be more BC than ON players. It's ON with 10 players and BC with 7, which still gives BC more proportional representation.

But for the ON players, 5 are GTA, 5 are rest of ON. For BC all 7 are either Victoria or Vancouver area (farthest is a guy from Squamish). So originally I should have narrowed it down instead of just saying BC.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by isaidso

That puts Canada's NBA representation into perspective. For all the talk of this being the golden age of Canadian basketball we still only have 12 Canadians in the whole league.

There are 491 players on NBA rosters; 383 are American. If we were to 'equal' the US in the production of NBA players we'd need to have 42-43 Canadians in the league given the 9:1 population ratio between the US and Canada.

This surely is the golden age of Canadian basketball but we still have a long way to go to reach 42-43 players. I can see Canada getting up to 25 players by 2025 but to get higher we'd need good basketball talent coming out of every province. Up till now it's been Ontario doing the heavy lifting. That's slowly changing though. There have been increasing numbers from Nova Scotia, Quebec, BC, and Alberta.

Yup. Just a matter of time.

I looked at the rosters a while back for that Canadian prospects game. Whatever it's called. Lots of top recruits, which bodes well for our future. And I did notice the representation from the other provinces you mentioned.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

That puts Canada's NBA representation into perspective. For all the talk of this being the golden age of Canadian basketball we still only have 12 Canadians in the whole league.

There are 491 players on NBA rosters; 383 are American. If we were to 'equal' the US in the production of NBA players we'd need to have 42-43 Canadians in the league given the 9:1 population ratio between the US and Canada.

This surely is the golden age of Canadian basketball but we still have a long way to go to reach 42-43 players. I can see Canada getting up to 25 players by 2025 but to get higher we'd need good basketball talent coming out of every province. Up till now it's been Ontario doing the heavy lifting. That's slowly changing though. There have been increasing numbers from Nova Scotia, Quebec, BC, and Alberta.

It's interesting but not sure the number of Canadians in the NBA is really that meaningful a metric. (I guess it's all we have to go on, though.)

It's not really "our" league and perhaps most importantly, the talent level for making it there is not calibrated for the level basketball is played at in Canada, but rather for the level in the U.S.

Which I guess is still a pretty nice compliment for those Canadians who do make it down there.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by elly63

I was almost bawlin' watchin this. Couldn't have picked a more worthy recipient.

Yup long overdo.

It does take some time for the applications to go through for some people. Of the couple of people I know that have received the OC, it can take a couple of years once the application goes through. My wife was involved with one application. And its quite secret until the announcement.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by megadude

Yup. Just a matter of time.

I looked at the rosters a while back for that Canadian prospects game. Whatever it's called. Lots of top recruits, which bodes well for our future. And I did notice the representation from the other provinces you mentioned.

I believe you mean the Biosteel All-Canadian Game. It's become a must for NCAA and even NBA scouts. I can see them needing a bigger venue. It sells out in a few days. I logged on to buy and they were all gone. The year before it was about 70% sold out around the same time.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's interesting but not sure the number of Canadians in the NBA is really that meaningful a metric. (I guess it's all we have to go on, though.)

It's not really "our" league and perhaps most importantly, the talent level for making it there is not calibrated for the level basketball is played at in Canada, but rather for the level in the U.S.

Which I guess is still a pretty nice compliment for those Canadians who do make it down there.

These days our best players grow up playing against Americans when they reach 14-15 years old, maybe even younger. The US is the gold standard when it comes to this sport but you really can't tell the difference between American kids and Canadian kids these days.

The big difference is the quantity of top level players each produces. That said, we're really not that far off from matching them on a per capita basis.

Btw, none of the leagues are 'our' league except the CFL. They're all based in the US, even the NHL. Canadians like to think of the NHL as their league but it's more a nice thought than anything based in reality. It's been 25 years since a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup. That's a whole generation who's never ever seen that.

[logan5]

Eh. Almost half the players in the NHL are Canadian. It’s our league.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by logan5

Eh. Almost half the players in the NHL are Canadian. It’s our league.

It's been a long time since it's been "our league". It's run from the US with US media/corporate/money/expansion interests at heart. We supply players, but it's naïve to thing we have any control whatsoever.

If it was our league, the struggling big-market American teams wouldn't exist and places like Quebec City, Halifax, Hamilton, Saskatoon, etc would have teams, i.e. actual hockey markets vs markets in the US that are large and might eventually pay off if they can convince people to actually give a shit.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nathan

It's been a long time since it's been "our league". It's run from the US with US media/corporate/money/expansion interests at heart. We supply players, but it's naïve to thing we have any control whatsoever.

If it was our league, the struggling big-market American teams wouldn't exist and places like Quebec City, Halifax, Hamilton, Saskatoon, etc would have teams, i.e. actual hockey markets vs markets in the US that are large and might eventually pay off if they can convince people to actually give a shit.

The success of the Vegas franchise if it sustains itself will bring things even further down that path. And prove that Bettman was right and we were wrong.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

These days our best players grow up playing against Americans when they reach 14-15 years old, maybe even younger. The US is the gold standard when it comes to this sport but you really can't tell the difference between American kids and Canadian kids these days.

The big difference is the quantity of top level players each produces. That said, we're really not that far off from matching them on a per capita basis.

Btw, none of the leagues are 'our' league except the CFL. They're all based in the US, even the NHL. Canadians like to think of the NHL as their league but it's more a nice thought than anything based in reality. It's been 25 years since a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup. That's a whole generation who's never ever seen that.

I am in agreement regarding "our" leagues.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by logan5

Eh. Almost half the players in the NHL are Canadian. It’s our league.

It used to be way over half. Canadian players are disappearing.

Canadians now make up less than half of the players in the NHL for the first time ever and it's only going to get lower. Here's an example:

Proportion of NHL players by Canadian nationality, at least one game played, by season:
1997-1998: 61%
2002-2003: 55%
2007-2008: 51%
2012-2013: 53%
2017-2018: 46%

Canadians are mostly being replaced by Americans. What is normal for the Jets lineup in 2018 is basically what's going to be normal for the rest of the league in 10 years.

Originally Posted by Nathan

It's been a long time since it's been "our league". It's run from the US with US media/corporate/money/expansion interests at heart. We supply players, but it's naïve to thing we have any control whatsoever.

It's a business headquartered in New York. Not sure what people expect.

Originally Posted by Nathan

If it was our league, the struggling big-market American teams wouldn't exist and places like Quebec City, Halifax, Hamilton, Saskatoon, etc would have teams, i.e. actual hockey markets vs markets in the US that are large and might eventually pay off if they can convince people to actually give a shit.

Growth potential in those markets are higher than those smaller hockey markets, though. Even in a hockey league like the CHL there are still American markets and it would be silly to have a professional Canadian league without some fringe American markets (like when the NHL expanded to Boston/NY/etc.). It's too much money and potential to pass up. Even "our league" the CFL tried American expansion.