The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[flwright]

Originally Posted by Helladog

While I agree that lining stores closer to the road looks better, this is after all a car dependent retail area. In order to create what you are talking about, you'd have to tear up the whole east side retail, and rebuild it. Trying to create a more pedestrian friendly environment there would be useless for just a handfull of stores.

It is car dependent NOW and might look silly in the short term but, remember, PlanSJ is looking 25 years ahead and restricts the buildable land in the retail area. PlanSJ foresees infilling many of the parking lots we see now to put buildings along the street as a result of this restricted land base. The pedestrian friendliness and reinvestment will come slowly but we've got to start somewhere!

And remember, 25 years ago most of the McAllister retail area was still farm pasture... a lot can change in that span of time!

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by flwright

And remember, 25 years ago most of the McAllister retail area was still farm pasture... a lot can change in that span of time!

Changes like...morphed and wavy parking lots, right?

Swiss Chalet has so many plumbing problems because of the unsuitability of the land that it's built on that they have plumbing and cleaning services there on a monthly basis. There's plenty of other places with similar issues. It amazes me that people still want to build on something that is quite obviously a flood plain.

If anything, I wouldn't be surprised of an exodus and unwillingness to build in that area of town. Obviously, the area around Empire Theatres isn't quite as bad, but it's still in the same generally-affected area. This is why Wal-Mart wants out and there's a good reason why East Point is at the top of the hill and not behind Sears & Zellers. That whole area is all prepped and ready to go for stores but has been sitting empty for the past five-plus years with the sewage and zoning already out of the way.

As for this development, as i've said, it'll be nice in-fill for the corner, but we shouldn't spend so much time worrying about the retail district out there when we still have plenty of property to infill Uptown. It would have been nice to get that St. Hubert uptown.

If you're going to be discussing anything in Saint John in terms of either A)Infrastructure (Bike lanes, widening roads, etc.) or B)Walkability or pedestrian freedom then you're going to have to start anew, because Saint John is set up in a way so that many of our existing structures are either too difficult to change or it's just not feasible. In terms of the East Side retail, you can't move entire malls to make the roads around them better for pedestrians. Generally when you're speaking of designing malls for walking purposes, you're building new malls, not renovating older ones and splitting them apart. I'm not an expert on the field, of course, but that's how I see it.

[flwright]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Changes like...morphed and wavy parking lots, right?

Swiss Chalet has so many plumbing problems because of the unsuitability of the land that it's built on that they have plumbing and cleaning services there on a monthly basis. There's plenty of other places with similar issues. It amazes me that people still want to build on something that is quite obviously a flood plain.

If anything, I wouldn't be surprised of an exodus and unwillingness to build in that area of town. Obviously, the area around Empire Theatres isn't quite as bad, but it's still in the same generally-affected area. This is why Wal-Mart wants out and there's a good reason why East Point is at the top of the hill and not behind Sears & Zellers. That whole area is all prepped and ready to go for stores but has been sitting empty for the past five-plus years with the sewage and zoning already out of the way.

As for this development, as i've said, it'll be nice in-fill for the corner, but we shouldn't spend so much time worrying about the retail district out there when we still have plenty of property to infill Uptown. It would have been nice to get that St. Hubert uptown.

If you're going to be discussing anything in Saint John in terms of either A)Infrastructure (Bike lanes, widening roads, etc.) or B)Walkability or pedestrian freedom then you're going to have to start anew, because Saint John is set up in a way so that many of our existing structures are either too difficult to change or it's just not feasible. In terms of the East Side retail, you can't move entire malls to make the roads around them better for pedestrians. Generally when you're speaking of designing malls for walking purposes, you're building new malls, not renovating older ones and splitting them apart. I'm not an expert on the field, of course, but that's how I see it.

There is no question that the east side is a poor place to build for a number of reasons, but each of those businesses have gone in with their eyes wide open -- most of them had to provide "compensatory flood storage" just to build their developments. If there is a buck to be made, a business will move in. I too prefer to infill uptown, but PlanSJ has different visions for these areas (East = general retail, Uptown = specialty retail and business) and the future looks like we are going to continue building on the east side so we might as well do it right. One step in the right direction is a step not in the wrong direction!

And it can be done, one step at a time, without necessarily rebuilding everything from scratch. Check out these resources:

http://www.re-burbia.com/2009/08/04/sprawl-building-types-repair-toolkit/

http://www.cnu.org/sites/www.cnu.org/files/SRInitiativePPTv2.pdf

See anything familiar?

It's just a matter of changing our mindset about how construction can be done in Saint John. What developer wouldn't want to densify their development to extract more money from a property that they already own? We just have to show them how to do it and have a legislative framework that encourges and permits it. PlanSJ is a pretty good start.

Call me an optimist...

[Helladog]

I'm all for uptown infill, but IMO, uptown is no place for Costco. It would take up the entire peninsula.

[philster]

On the Costco note, someone mentioned to me that an employee from the store here told them that they "COSTCO" recieved approval from the City to add a gasbar to their location. Can anyone else confirm this is accurate?

I do recall initally they wanted to build one when building the store, and there was outcry from other retailers about the propane and gass etc and it kinda was swept under the rug and propane ended up being sold but gas not, but now with Fredericton's store opening with a Gas bar...

[nwalbert]

Saint John wins Maritimes Cultureville contest
CBC News
Posted: Sep 30, 2011 11:13 AM AT

Saint John was named the cultural centre of the Maritimes Thursday night in CBC's Maritimes Cultureville contest.

Saint John’s special designation is a part of the lead up to a nationwide celebration of Culture Days this weekend.

Lisa Hrabluk, a freelance journalist, spent last year promoting arts and culture in Saint John as part of the city's 225th anniversary celebrations.

She said the designation is important for Saint John as it may promote and encourage more help for arts in the city.

"Financial support for the arts, so that's a combination of private sector stepping up and sponsoring events, I think that's really important,” Hrabluk said.

“It's more important these days because federal, provincial and municipal funding is going to be a challenge."

Hrabluk said it's a good time for artists in the city, as many organizations are at a point now where there is consistently good product that they can display

"Artistic organizations have reached a great maturity now in that the product that they're putting out is second to none. So when you look at what Saint John has to offer, I think, it's quite amazing,” she said.

Hrabluk points to the Saint John Theatre Company, the Arts Centre, and that Saint John has the most commercial galleries of any other city in the Maritimes, as indications support is strong.

The Cultureville contest was open to a variety of communities across the Maritimes.

[nwalbert]

Some additional exciting IT news out of the province and directly with Saint John.

Q1 Labs, a local network security company, has been purchased for an undisclosed value by IBM. This is a much larger deal than the Radian6 acquisition a few months ago and will inject massive amounts of capital into the region and cast an even further light onto the region for VC's. Q1 Labs like Radian6 has offices in SJ and Fredericton with the majority of Executive level people in the SJ office's.

[ErickMontreal]

New Cruise Ship Terminal

[kwajo]

Ugh, that rendering actually manages to look worse than the ones I posted. Why do we always have such mish-mashed styles with new construction Uptown? Can't we pick something simple, cohesive and elegant and run with it?

Also, I love the idea of another new building on Water Street, but there is a huge gap between the two terminals which will be essentially dead space for half the year. We need to make this space be of use to the city and its residents.

Anyway, great project for Uptown, I'm just being picky I guess.

[michael_d40]

SAINT JOHN - When visiting cruise ships dock at Saint John's newest terminal next August, passengers will disembark through a facility that takes cues from the modern glass facade of the waterfront condos currently under construction across the street while paying homage to the city's bricks-and-mortar past.

The final design concept for the terminal set to be built on the site of the nearly 60-year-old Pugsley C Shed on the harbour's east side was unveiled on Wednesday afternoon by the Saint John Port Authority.

"This is just another piece in Saint John's waterfront development," said Port Authority CEO Jim Quinn.

The plans depict a red brick building with two-storey high glass arches and a domed tower on one corner that harkens back to the iconic top of the old General Hospital that used to dominate the city's skyline.

Quinn said the plans were intended to take into account the work of PlanSJ while considering the "historic reality of uptown Saint John."

He said the stonework and brick architecture of the older buildings in the city core, along with the new glass condominiums on Water Street across from the terminal, played an important role in the design.

"We tried to balance the two concepts that would be responsive to the historic Saint John while glancing into the future a little bit," said Quinn.

The $15.5-million building is being funded through a partnership between the Port Authority, the province and the federal government.

Quinn said one of the most important elements of the new terminal is a rooftop viewing area that will be open to the general public. The balcony is expected to provide the public with a clear view of visiting cruise ships, the harbour and beyond.

"It was clear that there was an element of PlanSJ for people to have access to the waterfront," said Quinn. "We're working hard to have the port reconnect with the community and have the port connect with the community."

The demolition of Pugsley C is expected to continue throughout October with work being done between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m., Monday to Friday.

The Port Authority then expects construction on the new terminal, which will be about the same size as the Marco Polo Cruise Terminal, to start in November and be completed in August 2012.

The new cruise terminal means that, along with the Marco Polo terminal and Long Wharf, the port will be capable of handling two of the very largest cruise ships and a third smaller vessel.

Quinn said the new building is necessary to keep the city a step ahead of the ever-expanding cruise business along the northeastern seaboard of the United States and Canada.

Next year, 76 cruise vessels are scheduled to visit the city, including nine Disney ships which will be docking in Saint John for the first time.

The first of the Disney ships, the Magic, is scheduled to make its first visit to Saint John on June 13




Photo: Cindy Wilson/Telegraph-Journal
Jim Quinn, CEO of the SJ Port Authority, gave a sneak preview of the new Cruise ship terminal Wednesday.

[GUB]

I'm really glad for the new cruise ship terminal, but the design certainly does not look very good.

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by GUB

I'm really glad for the new cruise ship terminal, but the design certainly does not look very good.

I think it looks ok at best. It's a mild improvement over the Marco Polo terminal and does in fact match it to a degree, but given their importance to the City's economy I think these buildings should be more stylish and make use of higher-quality building materials and not be so boxy. They could use much more glass and include some elements that are purely for looks to make the building overall more interesting.

I find it ironic how Saint John has such a rich architectural past yet many of the buildings built since have been architecturally boring (except for the odd few of course). I know it costs a lot more to add style, but we're going to have to look at these buildings for many decades to come!

[kwajo]

I say the same thing all the time; how can we be so proud of our architecture in this city, yet at the same time put absolutely zero thought into the quality of design of our buildings? It's asinine.

The reason people love the buildings Uptown is that they were built with quality materials and good design. We can't just coast on what we already have, at some point we need to start adding to our stock of quality buildings and we haven't done that in years. Dhottawa729 is right, this is a cruise ship terminal, it's the first impression for a lot of people coming to the city for the first time, and it is located in our most prominent area - the waterfront. If we don't put flair, originality or even cohesiveness into a building like this, then what hope is there for the rest of the city?

[Helladog]

Palace de Vengeance





Police HQ



Harbourfront Residences







Images: Helladog

[Helladog]

Underground part of Palace de Veangance



Storage Shed Demo



New Look for Apts


Images: Helladog

[nwalbert]

Great photos HellaDog!

Uptown is looking really good these days. I was uptown this weekend and noticed the new stone front to the lower level of Market square which is going to look VERY nice once completed as well. King St has been almost completely transformed in recent months. We are really starting to see the benefits of all the cruise ship passengers.

[JHikka]

The real cost of the Palais de Vengeance didn't sink in for me until I saw that underground tunnel.

[kwajo]

Great photos - I love the one of the Three sisters lamp in front of the new condos and the cruise ship to the side! It shows how much potential Uptown has to be a premiere waterfront neighbourhood, as long as we stay focused on that goal.

[MonctonRad]

I agree with kwajo, I like this photo very much. It shows the potential available in the uptown area.....

[Helladog]

You can see some of the residue from the storage shed on the left. I had hoped this shed would be torn town, but I didn't realize the difference it makes until now.