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  #6241  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
I agree on all points, though I think if Commonwealth is considered substandard, then BMO should be considered even more substandard, even with the extra seating, it falls short of Commonwealth capacity by at least10k.
Just because a stadium has more seats doesn't mean it's better. By this line of thinking we would conclude that May Day Stadium in North Korea is one of the best stadium in the world.

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Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
The only thing BMO would have on Commonwealth would be the roofing, and probably not having the track too, though Rdmonton has done a decent job of mitigating the presence of the track.
I think BMO has quite a bit on Commonwealth. The Bid Book did a decent job of breaking down the issues with Commonwealth, a lot of them stemming from accessibility, washrooms, concourses, and other quality-of-life issues that require renovation.

Stadiums like McMahon are far more off the deep end than Commonwealth but we absolutely must get out of this line of thinking that more seats makes a stadium better. They don't.
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  #6242  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 6:29 PM
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I will be interested to see what the renderings will look like for the new 8000 seat cpl stadium that will be built in Langley bc.
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  #6243  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Stadiums like McMahon are far more off the deep end than Commonwealth but we absolutely must get out of this line of thinking that more seats makes a stadium better. They don't.
That's true, congruently, two of our smallest cities have the best stadiums and the biggest city has one of the worst and the worst in the World Cup lineup.
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  #6244  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 6:55 PM
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Commonwealth has been a major asset for Edmonton, and now because of the FIFA decision Edmonton will have some choices to make in the near future.
Blast from the past

Mid-sized stadium, large-sized conversation starter in Edmonton
Dan Barnes Edmonton Journal Feb 10, 2017


Rendering of a mid-sized stadium on Edmonton's Northlands exhibition grounds. Artist's rendering

It is a stunner, and sized to fill a gaping hole in Edmonton’s infrastructure inventory.

For now, a mid-sized stadium pegged for the city’s Northlands exhibition grounds is off the books.

But a citizens’ panel will soon be contemplating a civic strategy for bidding on major events, and a report from that panel to Edmonton city council is due this summer. In addition to laying out the broader vision, it will also help inform the city’s long-awaited decision on a potential bid for the 2026 Commonwealth Games.

That’s where the stadium conversation could be restarted, and there are stakeholders hoping it proceeds.

But first, a little background.

The City of Edmonton’s mid-size stadium plan, which was approved by council in March 2014, cites the need for a venue with seating for up to 10,000 people, and centres on a phased-in Clarke Park expansion dependent on increased attendance for the primary tenant, which is now FC Edmonton.

The 2022 Commonwealth Games bid committee determined there was a need for just such a stadium to host rugby sevens, but also decided a new facility could be built. In December 2014, the bid committee informed Northlands executives that their campus in northeast Edmonton had been chosen as the primary site for that venue, to be constructed at a cost of about $140 million. The total Games bid budget of $1 billion would have included 75 per cent of the cost of the stadium, with Northlands picking up the remainder.

Reg Milley, the former chair of the 2022 bid committee who is now chairing the citizens’ panel, said Thursday he couldn’t comment on the contents of the 2022 bid.

Economic downturn ended 2022 Games bid

On Feb. 10, 2015, that bid was abandoned before it was delivered to Commonwealth Games Canada. Edmonton officials cited the financial downturn as the primary reason for their decision, and were offered first right of refusal to be Canada’s candidate city for the 2026 Games. That right has lapsed, but an Edmonton bid is still a possibility, according to city manager Linda Cochrane.

Even in the absence of a Games bid, Northlands officials saw merit in the mid-size stadium project and followed through by developing a comprehensive plan for the phased-in construction of the facility, abutting Wayne Gretzky Drive. At the time, Northlands was still committed to horse racing on their campus, and the plan called for the stadium to be opened to the west as a viewing area for the track. It also incorporated suites, a buffet restaurant and a casino.

The first phase of stadium construction would have seen 5,000 seats built in a lower bowl, with 15,000 to come in a second loge phase. The plan also contemplated beer gardens, warm-up, medical and media areas, and a 95,000-square-foot removable dome to make it a year-round venue for minor, high school, college, university and major sports, including the soccer club, FC Edmonton.

Northlands eventually determined the risks were too great, particularly in the absence of capital funding from a potential Games bid budget, so it shelved the plan.

“As a part of Vision 2020 process, we had a six-member working committee explore the feasibility of a mid-size outdoor stadium that built upon prior work performed alongside the 2022 Commonwealth Games bid,” said Northlands president Tim Reid. “To the credit of our board, they felt it was not appropriate at the time.

“However, they preserved the space and site plan for future consideration.”

New stadium would suit soccer team

And if a bid for the 2026 Commonwealth Games proceeds and succeeds, it would be time to consider that stadium plan once again, with or without the horse-racing component. FC Edmonton is certainly one of the more interested stakeholders. They play out of Clarke Park and are looking for new digs, and could make use of a mid-sized stadium.

“I’ve talked a little bit with Northlands about some of their plans,” said FC Edmonton owner Tom Fath.

“Building a new facility in Edmonton is incredibly important for us. People, when they go to a professional sport, they want fancy and new, right. It’s clear that Edmonton needs a real good, mid-sized stadium. It could be at Northlands. It could be somewhere else. But that’s really important for Edmonton.”

Indeed, in building a venue plan for the Games, committee members had to envision what was right for Edmonton.

“When you’re looking at your venue plan for hosting a Games, first and foremost in that venue plan is really what do you need for the long term, not what’s needed for the Games,” said Brian MacPherson, CEO of Commonwealth Games Canada, who still hopes Edmonton will bid for 2026.

“That’s the legacy value. It’s very important to have the right sized stadium that’s built for the city, not just a singular one-off event.”

The city’s inventory of facilities with artificial turf includes Foote Field with seating for 3,500, and Clarke Park at 5,000, and is topped by Commonwealth Stadium at 56,200. For now, the mid-sized stadium is still only on a wish list.
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  #6245  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 7:19 PM
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I remember that one and it made a lot of sense in some ways, but still didn't solve a bunch of the challenges.
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  #6246  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Just because a stadium has more seats doesn't mean it's better. By this line of thinking we would conclude that May Day Stadium in North Korea is one of the best stadium in the world.

I think BMO has quite a bit on Commonwealth. The Bid Book did a decent job of breaking down the issues with Commonwealth, a lot of them stemming from accessibility, washrooms, concourses, and other quality-of-life issues that require renovation.
Admittedly I have never been to BMO, but I have to Commonwealth, and from my experience, specifically from the 2018 Grey Cup with 56,000 fans, the concourse and washroom facilities seemed to be rather good, in and out type, easiky accesible. Aside from the pre-game trying to get from the East side to the west side via the south concourse (was actually a nightmare), the stadium seemed to be quite awesome. It’s not simply about seats, you’re right, but BMO is a Lego built stadium, are the coincourse and washrooms a that much better and efficient I.e in and out?

Where can the Bid Book be found?
Quote:
Stadiums like McMahon are far more off the deep end than Commonwealth but we absolutely must get out of this line of thinking that more seats makes a stadium better. They don't.
MCMahon is atrocious, everyone can agree.
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  #6247  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
Admittedly I have never been to BMO
Oh.

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Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
, but I have to Commonwealth, and from my experience, specifically from the 2018 Grey Cup with 56,000 fans, the concourse and washroom facilities seemed to be rather good, in and out type, easiky accesible. Aside from the pre-game trying to get from the East side to the west side via the south concourse (was actually a nightmare), the stadium seemed to be quite awesome. It’s not simply about seats, you’re right, but BMO is a Lego built stadium, are the coincourse and washrooms a that much better and efficient I.e in and out?
BMO is fine for its current size. It'll need improvement to be ready for 2026 and certainly will need to add better facilities - hopefully the solution isn't Day 1 porta-potties like what occurred at Lansdowne.

There are plenty of examples of 'lego' stadiums being fine. Parken in Copenhagen is an example typically raised of what BMO could aspire to be, but that would require significant work on the North and South stands to connect them to the main stands.

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Where can the Bid Book be found?
Here (pdf)
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  #6248  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Oh.
ya… you been to Commonwealth?

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BMO is fine for its current size. It'll need improvement to be ready for 2026 and certainly will need to add better facilities - hopefully the solution isn't Day 1 porta-potties like what occurred at Lansdowne.
Talking about stadium issues, the subject of porta potties being a means of accommodating an extra 15,000 fans shouldn’t even be discussed. You’re damn rights porta potties aren’t a solution. But would be funny if that was in fact the case.

Quote:
There are plenty of examples of 'lego' stadiums being fine. Parken in Copenhagen is an example typically raised of what BMO could aspire to be, but that would require significant work on the North and South stands to connect them to the main stands.
I don’t doubt they could make it work.


Quote:
Here (pdf)
I don’t think the bid book explicitly talks about there being issues with Commonwealth. It pretty much just gives all information and specs of the stadium, history, location, and infrastructure. And they all seemed to be positive.
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  #6249  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 11:10 PM
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Here is Commonwealth's bits for those who do not want to scroll 500+ pages.











https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/3c0774...w26wmu-pdf.pdf
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  #6250  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 11:17 PM
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I don’t think the bid book explicitly talks about there being issues with Commonwealth. It pretty much just gives all information and specs of the stadium, history, location, and infrastructure. And they all seemed to be positive.
I keep reading about all these supposed "issues" with Commonwealth Stadium but nobody seems to specify what they are. Should be easy considering how many issues there supposedly are (or so we are told)
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  #6251  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 1:24 AM
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I keep reading about all these supposed "issues" with Commonwealth Stadium but nobody seems to specify what they are. Should be easy considering how many issues there supposedly are (or so we are told)
Ya seriously. I don’t know why he stated the bid book identified issues with the stadium. Commonwealth is a great stadium
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  #6252  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 1:37 AM
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From what I recall, the issues were something like:

-Lack of VIP areas
-Lack of luxury boxes
-Lack of media area/spaces
-Relative lack of washrooms
-Lack of a second primary video display
-Lack of a mid-field UG entrance/exit

Most of these were to have been updated/created/expanded by the time FIFA was to arrive at the costs of $20-40mil or something of that nature.
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  #6253  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 3:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
Ya seriously. I don’t know why he stated the bid book identified issues with the stadium. Commonwealth is a great stadium
Probably hoped you would just assume he was correct rather than taking a little bit of time to look at the bid book and find out there was actually nothing there stating these supposed issues with Commonwealth compared to BMO.

Yeah, it just lists stats and doesn't state if those things (ie washroom facilities) are in need of improvement. BMO needs port-o-potties though so clearly that means it has a leg up Commonwealth as individuals get their own private space to do their business!
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  #6254  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 4:48 AM
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Regina is really pushing new sports facilities - in particular as a strategy for downtown revitalization*

*none have solid funding, none have determined locations, all of these are just renderings and while the idea of each continues to linger, various locations proposed have already been shut down

Hockey Arena/event centre:



Baseball stadium:



Soccer stadium (2nd rendering shows dome added for use during winter)



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  #6255  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 1:27 PM
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Looking good.

Add in Saskatoon's future new Downtown stadium and things will be rollin' there.
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  #6256  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 1:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
ya… you been to Commonwealth?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldrsx
From what I recall, the issues were something like:

-Lack of VIP areas
-Lack of luxury boxes
-Lack of media area/spaces
-Relative lack of washrooms
-Lack of a second primary video display
-Lack of a mid-field UG entrance/exit

Most of these were to have been updated/created/expanded by the time FIFA was to arrive at the costs of $20-40mil or something of that nature.
Yes. Combined with the items like airport connectivity, distances, training facilities, # of x-star hotels etc..

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
Probably hoped you would just assume he was correct rather than taking a little bit of time to look at the bid book and find out there was actually nothing there stating these supposed issues with Commonwealth compared to BMO.
Yes i'm only here to deceive.
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  #6257  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 2:22 PM
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^
'Yes. Combined with the items like airport connectivity, distances, training facilities, # of x-star hotels etc..'

YEG's lack of flights and 4 star hotels were a real detriment I believe. Less so training for we have quite a few.

But again, major events want sexy and Vancouver takes that everyday of the week for the beautiful game.
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  #6258  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 2:24 PM
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YEG's lack of flights and 4 star hotels were a real detriment I believe. Less so training for we have quite a few.
Somebody did scoring for the host cities years ago and IIRC Edmonton scored poorly on most of the non-stadium items. Not surprising given that it was one of the smaller (if not the smallest?) cities looking to host.

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But again, major events want sexy and Vancouver takes that everyday of the week for the beautiful game.
It wasn't an either/or with Vancouver. Both could have hosted if the AB govt didn't make unreasonable demands.
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  #6259  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 2:28 PM
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Death knell for sure and always a stretch for Edmonton. I was proud to see it make it that far, but disappointed that with a few different steps it could have been a real thing.

Live and learn, alas.
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  #6260  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 2:54 PM
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Ya seriously. I don’t know why he stated the bid book identified issues with the stadium. Commonwealth is a great stadium
It's still a 50 year old university multi sport stadium (athletics/football) with a running track around the field. BMO is a soccer specific built stadium. We have to wait and see on the temporary seating. You guys are already concluding the lowest common denominator with porto potties.

I wouldn't count Edmonton being asked to host either. The budget for these games is ridiculous and only getting larger. There's a chance (can't say how big) Toronto will bow out of hosting as more info becomes public over the next year.
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