Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Was it built, in its bare bones days, for national soccer or specifically TFC?

For soccer under the guarantee that an MLS team play there. CSA put money in for national team games IIRC.

Originally Posted by Hackslack

I know the upgrades were certainly built for TFC. But it was also went through major Reno’s to accommodate the move in of the Argos, like removing stands to account for CFL deep end zones.

Both the North and South ends had to be demolished/renovated and replaced with flexible stands in order to accommodate the Argos.

Originally Posted by Hackslack

I think just everybody made the mistake of assuming the Argos moving in to BMO would drastically increase their popularity. If that did actually go according to plan they would be considered a 1b tenant, still behind TFC of course, but not in the terms it is now… so definitely agree that Argos are behind TFC.

Moving a team down the road and expecting them to magically become more popular is to overlook the overhanging issues revolving around the team, league, and sport, specifically in the Toronto market. The Skydome wasn't why the Argos were declining in popularity.

There's no real discussion to be had on whether or not the Argos are ahead or behind TFC. Despite playing in the same stadium they haven't been in the same ballpark in quite some time.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Moving a team down the road and expecting them to magically become more popular is to overlook the overhanging issues revolving around the team, league, and sport, specifically in the Toronto market. The Skydome wasn't why the Argos were declining in popularity.

There's no real discussion to be had on whether or not the Argos are ahead or behind TFC. Despite playing in the same stadium they haven't been in the same ballpark in quite some time.

Agree wholeheartedly… Argos definitely suck in Toronto, straight up. Many other teams are trending that way too. CFL has to get a handle on getting people in their seats at the stadium. What is Whitecaps compared to Lions in Vancouver, as they share the same stadium too. Comparable to the situation in Toronto?

[thurmas]

Any update in Calgary for the mcmahon stadium renovation and retail development around it that was announced last fall?

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Any update in Calgary for the mcmahon stadium renovation and retail development around it that was announced last fall?

Not that I am aware of, unfortunately

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Any update in Calgary for the mcmahon stadium renovation and retail development around it that was announced last fall?

"A final concept was approved by Council in September 2021. The project team is now conducting a Social Return on Investment Analysis, anticipated for completion by Q2 2022. The Social Return on Investment Analysis will identify the social value that would be created based on the capital dollars needed to implement the Foothills+McMahon concept plan. To stay informed please sign up for project updates.


"Next steps for the future redevelopment of Foothills+McMahon would commence when funding is made available. While there is no indication as to when this might be, having the approved concept plan will make it possible to move forward quickly when funding is made available.



"Sequentially, the typical next steps in any redevelopment process includes:

1. Planning approvals (1-2 years)
2. Engineering approvals (1-2 years)
3. Site servicing construction (1-2 years or more)
4. Sale of fully serviced and zoned parcels (market dependent)
5. Development approvals (180 days)
6. Building approvals (56 calendar days)

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's still Canada's first soccer specific stadium. Argos are definitely second-class citizens in that building -the schedule is an easy giveaway.

Didn't the Argos' last schedule come out before the soccer one.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

What is Whitecaps compared to Lions in Vancouver, as they share the same stadium too. Comparable to the situation in Toronto?

Bit closer. Lions still have some sway in the market and the Whitecaps ownership has done everything in their power to beat the team down whenever they show any hope whatsoever.

[elly63]

Foothills + McMahon Concept Plan
The City, in partnership with the University of Calgary, has created a Concept Plan for the future development of the Foothills Athletic Park and McMahon Stadium lands.

Foothills + McMahon Concept Plan

[JHikka]

In its 2021-2022 Annual Report, Soccer Quebec confirms that it is actively seeking investors to look into a CPL team ideally located in Quebec City but alternatively in Montreal-Laval. It's been determined that a 5,000-capacity stadium is required, similar to Wanderers Grounds in Halifax to start.

The main hurdle at this stage is the CPL expansion fee, which has risen fourfold since the league's inception:

2019: $3M
2020: $9M
2022: $12M

Info taken from Quentin Parisis below
https://twitter.com/QParisis/status/1547320189036937217

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by JHikka

In its 2021-2022 Annual Report, Soccer Quebec confirms that it is actively seeking investors to look into a CPL team ideally located in Quebec City but alternatively in Montreal-Laval. It's been determined that a 5,000-capacity stadium is required, similar to Wanderers Grounds in Halifax to start.

The main hurdle at this stage is the CPL expansion fee, which has risen fourfold since the league's inception:

2019: $3M
2020: $9M
2022: $12M

Info taken from Quentin Parisis below
https://twitter.com/QParisis/status/1547320189036937217

Thats very encouraging but the cpl will need to relocate edmonton and York as they can't carry on with attendance this low.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Thats very encouraging but the cpl will need to relocate edmonton and York as they can't carry on with attendance this low.

York already has plans to move to a new purpose-built soccer facility in Rexdale.

Edmonton's problems are well-documented at this point. Priority is finding an owner, but i'd be surprised if they moved from Clarke any time soon. Who knows.

Crowds are important for teams of this size but they're also connected in a model under Canada Soccer Business, meaning they share a piece of the pie that CMNT and CWNT partake in - which is what the players are arguing for these days wrt World Cup bonus payments. They can ask for an inflated expansion fee because it gets them access to that revenue-sharing pie.

[Coldrsx]

Is it time to 'blow up' Commonwealth?

https://urbanaffairs.ca/edmonton-ish...-commonwealth/

[thurmas]

Commonwealth is fine it just needs a downsizing of the upper deck similar to what the Chicago white Sox did with u.s. cellular field. Also get rid of the empty endzone seats and make it a party deck like at mosaic or tim hortons field

[Hackslack]

CFL stadiums need to be 30k max. Open the upper decks/closed sections for the big ones.

Calgary could reduce its capacity simply by putting in wider seats throughout, especially the shitty bench seats.

Do a better job too than what BC does. The entire cover needs to hide the upper deck. The way it currently is its just a lacklustre curtain that does a poor job of hiding all the empty seats the cannot sell…. I noticed the OHL Hamilton bulldog’s does a good job of it, granted it’s a much smaller hockey stadium, but it truly makes it look like the building was built only for the lower bowl.

Something does desperately needs to be done, throughout the league, but there are more sensible options than blowing up the stadium.

[Djeffery]

You certainly aren't going to be able to hide the upper level at Commonwealth or disguise McMahon the way they do at BC Place. You can tarp the seats in the upper deck like they do in Oakland, or simply not put them on sale like they do in Toronto, but it doesn't hide that whole part of the stadium. It will still be a big empty structure on TV

[Hackslack]

Fair enough. CFL has to figure this out, the disease has crept into all the major markets and become embarrassing for the league.

[Base]

I love the charm of commonwealth and the fact it's size has allowed for some great moments.

It will soon be time to make a decision on what we want out of our major stadium in Edmonton.

A) A smaller intimate venue that has a better atmosphere and layout (no track) for it's primary tenant the Elks?

B) A major renovation of the existing facility which might be only slightly less costly than option A but retain the ability for Edmonton to have a venue that competes with the bigger cities in Canada.

Commonwealth has been a major asset for Edmonton, and now because of the FIFA decision Edmonton will have some choices to make in the near future.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Base

I love the charm of commonwealth and the fact it's size has allowed for some great moments.

It will soon be time to make a decision on what we want out of our major stadium in Edmonton.

A) A smaller intimate venue that has a better atmosphere and layout (no track) for it's primary tenant the Elks?

B) A major renovation of the existing facility which might be only slightly less costly than option A but retain the ability for Edmonton to have a venue that competes with the bigger cities in Canada.

Commonwealth has been a major asset for Edmonton, and now because of the FIFA decision Edmonton will have some choices to make in the near future.

Best be clear: Edmonton and more specifically the Alberta government torpedoed any use of Commonwealth by FIFA.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Is it time to 'blow up' Commonwealth?

https://urbanaffairs.ca/edmonton-ish...-commonwealth/

The stadium is also too big for most of the events it hosts – or might host.

This is common for a lot of stadiums in Canada. BC Place sells out occasionally for events that aren't its main tenants, and SkyDome sells out occasionally for the Jays, but aside from that most stadiums in that 30K+ range are overbuilt.

Should the city be looking at the examples of the two relatively new stadiums that have popped up in Western Canada? Both Regina’s Mosaic Stadium and Winnipeg’s IG Field look great and give fans a modern experience.

Two examples of recent stadium builds that are slightly overbuilt. The Bombers don't really sell out IG Field, and the Riders only do on occasion as well. Both would be better served with 25-28K stadiums that they can routinely fill with the ability to jack up ticket prices.

It goes without saying that the stadiums of these size were originally built with taxpayer money and will only be renovated with taxpayer money. The same is true for Commonwealth. Their main tenants cannot afford it.

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Best be clear: Edmonton and more specifically the Alberta government torpedoed any use of Commonwealth by FIFA.

Edmonton the city was also the weakest of all cities entered in the Bid Book. Combined with a substandard stadium and even without the AB govt demands would have been a straightforward cut from contention.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

This is common for a lot of stadiums in Canada. BC Place sells out occasionally for events that aren't its main tenants, and SkyDome sells out occasionally for the Jays, but aside from that most stadiums in that 30K+ range are overbuilt.


Two examples of recent stadium builds that are slightly overbuilt. The Bombers don't really sell out IG Field, and the Riders only do on occasion as well. Both would be better served with 25-28K stadiums that they can routinely fill with the ability to jack up ticket prices.

It goes without saying that the stadiums of these size were originally built with taxpayer money and will only be renovated with taxpayer money. The same is true for Commonwealth. Their main tenants cannot afford it.


Edmonton the city was also the weakest of all cities entered in the Bid Book. Combined with a substandard stadium and even without the AB govt demands would have been a straightforward cut from contention.

I agree on all points, though I think if Commonwealth is considered substandard, then BMO should be considered even more substandard, even with the extra seating, it falls short of Commonwealth capacity by at least10k. The only thing BMO would have on Commonwealth would be the roofing, and probably not having the track too, though Rdmonton has done a decent job of mitigating the presence of the track.