Tucson Development Thread

[kmiller5]

Originally Posted by InTheBurbs

We are planning on coming out to Tucson for the UA-UH football game in September, and booked a room at the Marriott University Park at Main Gate Square. Just received an email stating that effective March 7 that it will no longer be a Marriott property but will continue operating as the Tucson Hotel University Park.

Also saw in response to some TripAdvisor reviews that they are/were planning a major renovation later this year.

Has anybody heard what's going on there? Maybe with the Aloft, the new AC, JW Marriott, the perpetually-proposed Residence Inn, and the possible Moxy at Ronstadt Marriott thought they had too many properties near downtown? Doesn't seem likely, though.

Huh. Could Marriott leaving explain the lack of action on the new Main Gate Marriott that was supposed to have started by now? I remember reading Marriott was now a part of the Hotel Euclid project so they clearly like having a hotel in the area.

[OldPueblo$]

Originally Posted by InTheBurbs

We are planning on coming out to Tucson for the UA-UH football game in September, and booked a room at the Marriott University Park at Main Gate Square. Just received an email stating that effective March 7 that it will no longer be a Marriott property but will continue operating as the Tucson Hotel University Park.

Also saw in response to some TripAdvisor reviews that they are/were planning a major renovation later this year.

Has anybody heard what's going on there? Maybe with the Aloft, the new AC, JW Marriott, the perpetually-proposed Residence Inn, and the possible Moxy at Ronstadt Marriott thought they had too many properties near downtown? Doesn't seem likely, though.

Definitely not because they have too many properties. My guess is that they were asked by Marriott to do a PIP and couldn't/didn't want to. Don't do a PIP, lose flag.

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by OldPueblo$

Definitely not because they have too many properties. My guess is that they were asked by Marriott to do a PIP and couldn't/didn't want to. Don't do a PIP, lose flag.

Theory: Marriott made plans to pull out of the existing property last year, but wanted to maintain two properties in the area. Thus, they rebrand the planned Residence Inn at 930 East 2nd as a full Marriott and move the Residence Inn concept to 714 Euclid.

[Eapiwo]

Last Saturday (February 11th, 2017) I took these photos from A Mountain. Please excuse the slight camera shake

Ajo Construction
by Andrew Pine, on Flickr

by Andrew Pine, on Flickr

by Andrew Pine, on Flickr

Skyline Growth is lackluster to the common eye but the density is definitely something new, especially in the Main Gate and Unisource areas of the city.
At the start of this decade the skyline ended at the Chase building but now extends to Cadence which is still a pretty impressive gain for a city center that had so little going on. The future is still hopeful for visuals, though. The Ronstadt and Arena Site projects will pretty up some dull areas of downtown while Block 175, which will consist of only several 6 story buildings, will add more density to an area with no skyline. The Mark, Banner, the Marriott, new student housing, and even Hotel Euclid will impact the visuals of the city tremendously as well as will the La Placita, Westerner , and Marist. Even the AC hotel impacts the skyline tremendously at other angles. I think by 2020 we'll start getting the skyline we've been wishing for.

Edit: Almost forgot to mention the HSIB building, that's gonna be a gem!

[crzyabe]

Originally Posted by Eapiwo

Skyline Growth is lackluster to the common eye but the density is definitely something new, especially in the Main Gate and Unisource areas of the city. At the start of this decade the skyline ended at the Chase building but now extends to Cadence which is still a pretty impressive gain for a city center that had so little going on. The future is still hopeful for visuals, though. The Ronstadt and Arena Site projects will pretty up some dull areas of downtown while Block 175, which will consist of only several 6 story buildings, will add more density to an area with no skyline. The Mark, Banner, the Marriott, new student housing, and even Hotel Euclid will impact the visuals of the city tremendously as well as will the La Placita, Westerner , and Marist. Even the AC hotel impacts the skyline tremendously at other angles. I think by 2020 we'll start getting the skyline we've been wishing for.

Edit: Almost forgot to mention the HSIB building, that's gonna be a gem!

Great post! I agree with you that the density is finally starting and that will ultimately lead to the taller buildings everyone here wants.

I love how on the left of that last picture you can see the bright mural on on the Tucson Warehouse building.

[crzyabe]

Spent some this morning wandering around Downtown. Looks like demo/construction has started at the San Agustin Cathedral site. Additionally, site work has begun for the 7 house Mordasini development at 17th and Stone

[somethingfast]

what is the plan for the arena site? expanding current arena? new arena? i'm a tucson native but rarely get back there. personally, i don't think Tucson will ever see anything over 25 stories as the new paradigm doesn't include hi-rises outside of the maybe top 15 markets. i think Trump will definitely be good for economic growth and Tucson will benefit but i see a denser downtown, not necessarily taller. hope i'm wrong though!

[Eapiwo]

Population growth is too slow to justify highrises in Tucson and I'm guessing that'll be the case through the next decade. The U.S. isn't growing as quickly as we were in the past. Boomtowns will be fewer than in the past. Tucson will see a greater rate of growth as we return to normal from the recession but it won't be what it was in the 2000s. I hope I'm wrong but it would seem that Arizona's growth rate is done being extreme.

Look at the good though. Just like the beautiful buildings on Broadway from the 60s, Tucson is going to have a new age of architecture to dazzle the city. Right now the many 7- 15 story buildings that are going up will reflect a beautiful standard of architecture unique to this time.

[somethingfast]

I'm an older dude (mid-40's) but I can tell you that Tucson wasn't growing super-fast in the 2000's at all. the 70's and 80's were the high-growth periods. i believe Tucson metro grew from 530,000 to close to 700,000 from 80 to 90. 90 to 2000 i think it was another 120,000 or so. very modest growth since then. housing prices soared in the 2000's but that doesn't constitute "growth". otherwise, agree...Tucson will see good, meaningful growth in downtown but mid-rise in nature not hi-rise. i'd be very surprised to see another 20+ story building go up again before 2025. Phoenix, on the other hand, should see a 50+ story tower go up by then. just a guess...

[farmerk]

Never liked the look of Marriott University Park . That's one ugly building!
Hope the renovation would look as nice as the Aloft.

[southtucsonboy77]

Block 175...can anyone expand on what's proposed? Is it really a few 6 story (magic #) buildings?

I, like most , enjoy and am happy for the increased density. Yet, we're mis-labeling "high rise". Downtown is able to progress to 10-15 floors. Those (10-15) are not high rises. Main Gate is an example. Can you imagine how awesome our downtown would look if we've sprinkled the area with a couple of 10-15 story buildings? Look at the Unisource "tower", its 9-stories and dominates the low skyline near the 6-story and lesser buildings!

We're stuck at 6-7 for the most part. I'm a fan of the Ronstadt project, but is it REALLY necessary to have 3 separate structures? Or is it a trick in the book to appease the "neighborhoods" to keep the structures below a certain height to avoid and limit complaints? Are the local developers looking at their peers and witnessing that these typical 6-story structures are not receiving resistance? Is it becoming a "Tucson-thing" to not have taller structures...and then sit back and be proud and say our city is unique...while the years pass us by and we realize that we built s*** on key parcels in the city core? The "Rendezvous" has no clear reason to go down to spread its footprint and lower its height except that its "peer" projects are all in the 6-7 story range. At some point a local developer (and city) needs to grow an imagination...or step aside and let a national developer come in and do their thing...

[bleunick]

Originally Posted by southtucsonboy77

Block 175...can anyone expand on what's proposed? Is it really a few 6 story (magic #) buildings?

I, like most , enjoy and am happy for the increased density. Yet, we're mis-labeling "high rise". Downtown is able to progress to 10-15 floors. Those (10-15) are not high rises. Main Gate is an example. Can you imagine how awesome our downtown would look if we've sprinkled the area with a couple of 10-15 story buildings? Look at the Unisource "tower", its 9-stories and dominates the low skyline near the 6-story and lesser buildings!

We're stuck at 6-7 for the most part. I'm a fan of the Ronstadt project, but is it REALLY necessary to have 3 separate structures? Or is it a trick in the book to appease the "neighborhoods" to keep the structures below a certain height to avoid and limit complaints? Are the local developers looking at their peers and witnessing that these typical 6-story structures are not receiving resistance? Is it becoming a "Tucson-thing" to not have taller structures...and then sit back and be proud and say our city is unique...while the years pass us by and we realize that we built s*** on key parcels in the city core? The "Rendezvous" has no clear reason to go down to spread its footprint and lower its height except that its "peer" projects are all in the 6-7 story range. At some point a local developer (and city) needs to grow an imagination...or step aside and let a national developer come in and do their thing...

First off, Tucson doesn't have developers that can fork out cash for their entire project and just build a 15 story building wherever they want. A bank needs to give them a loan... and since there hasn't been a 15 story building built in many years, they have no faith that the ROI is going to be there for the developer. Tucson's market just isn't there yet.

Second, after 7 stories different building codes apply in Tucson. You are required to use different building materials such as steel and reinforced concrete rather than wood, and fire requirements change greatly. The cost of these requirements makes a 10-14ish story building nearly impossible to pencil out for the developer. At that point a 25 story building would probably make more sense than a 10 story, and again, Tucson just isn't there yet...

As long as the architecture is good, I fully embrace a quality 7 story building in the core!

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by southtucsonboy77

Block 175...can anyone expand on what's proposed? Is it really a few 6 story (magic #) buildings?

I, like most , enjoy and am happy for the increased density. Yet, we're mis-labeling "high rise". Downtown is able to progress to 10-15 floors. Those (10-15) are not high rises. Main Gate is an example. Can you imagine how awesome our downtown would look if we've sprinkled the area with a couple of 10-15 story buildings? Look at the Unisource "tower", its 9-stories and dominates the low skyline near the 6-story and lesser buildings!

We're stuck at 6-7 for the most part. I'm a fan of the Ronstadt project, but is it REALLY necessary to have 3 separate structures? Or is it a trick in the book to appease the "neighborhoods" to keep the structures below a certain height to avoid and limit complaints? Are the local developers looking at their peers and witnessing that these typical 6-story structures are not receiving resistance? Is it becoming a "Tucson-thing" to not have taller structures...and then sit back and be proud and say our city is unique...while the years pass us by and we realize that we built s*** on key parcels in the city core? The "Rendezvous" has no clear reason to go down to spread its footprint and lower its height except that its "peer" projects are all in the 6-7 story range. At some point a local developer (and city) needs to grow an imagination...or step aside and let a national developer come in and do their thing...

The Block 175 project has specific scaling issues because it's literally across the street from a historic zone. I wouldn't classify it with projects like Rendezvous where the scale is wholly determined by financing and "market demand."

[southtucsonboy77]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

The Block 175 project has specific scaling issues because it's literally across the street from a historic zone. I wouldn't classify it with projects like Rendezvous where the scale is wholly determined by financing and "market demand."

I agree. I actually was shocked that it was even proposed at 6-stories. Each project and location is different...and this spot is one where I wouldn't gripe too much.

[southtucsonboy77]

In response to bleunick...I know for a fact developers have been willing/able to go more vertical. Not all, but some. A few have inquired, but don't want the perceived fight or delay. As far as the economics...I was employed by a local government/enterprise who built a beautiful 10-story, 166 ft structure with an amazing dome. It can be done if you want it. Sprawl is just as bad as vertical...and we're not talking regional land use here. The alternative was a sprawled out structure, approximately, you guess it, 6-stories. A factor to go more vertical? Save space, make an iconic structure, and think about a second tower for the future. A La Placita, Rendezvous, and even a Ronstadt can go more vertical...if they chose to.

[bleunick]

Originally Posted by southtucsonboy77

In response to bleunick...I know for a fact developers have been willing/able to go more vertical. Not all, but some. A few have inquired, but don't want the perceived fight or delay. As far as the economics...I was employed by a local government/enterprise who built a beautiful 10-story, 166 ft structure with an amazing dome. It can be done if you want it. Sprawl is just as bad as vertical...and we're not talking regional land use here. The alternative was a sprawled out structure, approximately, you guess it, 6-stories. A factor to go more vertical? Save space, make an iconic structure, and think about a second tower for the future. A La Placita, Rendezvous, and even a Ronstadt can go more vertical...if they chose to.

Quasi-governmental buildings and mixed use/market-rate residential buildings have very little in common when it comes to financing... Same can be said for student housing.

In terms of fight, Rendezvous can build as high as theyd like and there wouldnt be a peep from anyone about it. They are building 100 units at 6 stories because in order to make it work for them they are going to be renting those out at nearly a record price for Tucson. What proof does anybody have that there are more than 100 people willing to pay that much?

[southtucsonboy77]

The fact that they are willing to build 100 + units tells you they are willing to build a large structure. They CHOSE to deviate from the designated footprint, that has an elevator shaft pre-built and the foundation to build a 20 + tower. The owner/developer chose to build a sprawled out apartment complex. As a downtown enthusiast, for that particular space, its a shame. Yes, its their money, their property, but as a long-time Tucsonan, I'm very aware that spot has always been designated as a "twin" tower. These developers cannot preach about costs...or zoning...or limitations. It was just a decision that went towards this "trend" of 6-8 story structures.

I want to make clear that my frustration isn't with those developers who are being cautious with units...its the bigger projects with the high number of units. The # of units dictates the possibility of a more vertical building. That is why my big 3: the Rendezvous, La Placita, and 141 South are huge disappointments in my book.

[southtucsonboy77]

Council considers zoning change for historic church property near UA

The Tucson City Council will be asked today to sign off on a zoning change that would allow Trinity Presbyterian Church to demolish several of its buildings to make way for two new multi-story buildings.

The church is asking the city for permission to build three-story and four-story buildings with ground-floor retail in both structures, and plans for 72 apartments.

An example of owner/developer not limiting themselves to the current zoning/development standards.

[wildcatmd]

http://robpaulus.com/projects/eller-expansion/

Anyone notice this planned expansion of the Eller College of Business? I checked their website and it seems like a far future kind of plan but it looks pretty cool!

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by wildcatmd

http://robpaulus.com/projects/eller-expansion/

Anyone notice this planned expansion of the Eller College of Business? I checked their website and it seems like a far future kind of plan but it looks pretty cool!

They also announced a plan to aggressive expand Eller's footprint in downtown Phoenix.