Surrey Langley Skytrain - Expo Line Extension | Proposed

[Cypherus]

I like how the ones (i.e. Brodie) who are vehemently opposed to skytrain in Surrey are the same people residing in cities where skytrain or a derivative (i.e. Canada Line) has been adequately serving. The people in Surrey are tired of those North of the Fraser indulging themselves with Skytrain, while thinking skytrain is not necessary for Surrey...

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I only saw part of it but it doesn't sound like I missed much. The vibe I got from it, which I'll admit isn't entirely accurate of everyone there (and probably isn't very PC) is that it was a room of cranky old white men. I'm pretty sure that's due to mostly seeing Brodie vs McCallum.

I can see continued resistance once the time comes to develop Phase 3. The "No" side will want to shift money away from Fraser Hwy and use it somewhere else even though it was agreed upon to do the 2nd Phase of LRT to Langley. I think some are just miffed that Doug got re-elected and that he is messing with the Mayors Council 10 year plan. It is going to be a long 4 years with this bunch!!!

[WarrenC12]

I'm no fan of Brodie or McCallum, but from what I followed, Brodie did have at least one point. He complained that we shouldn't be letting cities set regional policy. Yet that's just what they did when they allowed Surrey to pick LRT, and now to change their mind.

He referenced Richmond's then-preference for street level LRT for the Canada Line (Richmond portion anyway), and they were over-ridden.

You can argue what the right choice is (Skytrain for ALL, including Canada Line), but I think it's a fair point that billions of regional/provincial/federal dollars shouldn't be re-prioritized willy-nilly by populist morons that get voted in by a marginal number of votes.

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm no fan of Brodie or McCallum, but from what I followed, Brodie did have at least one point. He complained that we shouldn't be letting cities set regional policy. Yet that's just what they did when they allowed Surrey to pick LRT, and now to change their mind.

He referenced Richmond's then-preference for street level LRT for the Canada Line (Richmond portion anyway), and they were over-ridden.

You can argue what the right choice is (Skytrain for ALL, including Canada Line), but I think it's a fair point that billions of regional/provincial/federal dollars shouldn't be re-prioritized willy-nilly by populist morons that get voted in by a marginal number of votes.

But it was not a marginal number of votes... Save for one council member, the rest of the city council of Surrey also flipped.

If Brodie wants to, he can file and vote for a motion to return TransLink control to the provincial government... I'm not sure if that would make the situation any better, given that all three levels (local, provincial, or federal) are still elected to the whims of the electorate. Heck, maybe we need to allow only a few individuals to form government in this city / province / country...

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm no fan of Brodie or McCallum, but from what I followed, Brodie did have at least one point. He complained that we shouldn't be letting cities set regional policy. Yet that's just what they did when they allowed Surrey to pick LRT, and now to change their mind.

He referenced Richmond's then-preference for street level LRT for the Canada Line (Richmond portion anyway), and they were over-ridden.

You can argue what the right choice is (Skytrain for ALL, including Canada Line), but I think it's a fair point that billions of regional/provincial/federal dollars shouldn't be re-prioritized willy-nilly by populist morons that get voted in by a marginal number of votes.

You bring up a very valid point. Metro Van wanted control of transit decisions so they came up with the current model. However, the Mayor's Council has a hard time putting aside their own city priorities and instead focusing on regional transit priorities. Surrey should never have been allowed to have their vanity LRT project that only served just one city and didn't have the goals of the whole region. At least Doug wants to extend the Skytrain to Langely so other communities can be directly connected to the mode of choice for Metro Van... Skytrain.

[ronthecivil]

So I think what might work best, is for them to preload a new two lane (and whatever else you might need, say greenway) on say the north side, and then basically turn Fraser highway into a four lane divided road the whole way, with the skytrain in the middle.

That will eliminate interactions with trees, put the foundations into ground that has already been loaded, and allow for early works while the detailed design is being developed.

Your welcome taxpayers.

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by ronthecivil

So I think what might work best, is for them to preload a new two lane (and whatever else you might need, say greenway) on say the north side, and then basically turn Fraser highway into a four lane divided road the whole way, with the skytrain in the middle.

That will eliminate interactions with trees, put the foundations into ground that has already been loaded, and allow for early works while the detailed design is being developed.

Your welcome taxpayers.

That is not how preloading works...

If SkyTrain will be on elevated guideway (and it most likely will for grade separation and safety reasons), you can drive columns directly to bedrock or use localized friction piles for most of the route.

In contrast, a larger surface area is required to properly support a road and the traffic on top; preloading is used in this case because it is deemed to be cheaper to let the ground passively compress under its own weight before use vs actively stabilizing the soil or building an overpass. Most governments here are in no rush to get road projects done at the expense of the taxpayer.

[BirchTrain]

https://www.civicinfo.bc.ca/practice...ation_2005.pdf

The people of Richmond wanted an elevated line. I guess Brodie was too busy trying to appease zweisystem continue against the wishes of the Surrey electorate

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

I can see continued resistance once the time comes to develop Phase 3. The "No" side will want to shift money away from Fraser Hwy and use it somewhere else even though it was agreed upon to do the 2nd Phase of LRT to Langley. I think some are just miffed that Doug got re-elected and that he is messing with the Mayors Council 10 year plan. It is going to be a long 4 years with this bunch!!!

Oh I expect many noses are out of joint and will be for some time. With any luck Vancouver and Surrey will stay friendly for the next few years, which should lead to some interesting times. I can see areas (such as the North Shore) having to suck up to Vancouver and all the other mayors to get enough votes for their transit projects - 'cause you know that unless it's an outstanding project Surrey will vote against anyone who has stood against them. I kind of want to sit back and watch it play out.

[waves]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I only saw part of it but it doesn't sound like I missed much. The vibe I got from it, which I'll admit isn't entirely accurate of everyone there (and probably isn't very PC) is that it was a room of cranky old white men. I'm pretty sure that's due to mostly seeing Brodie vs McCallum.

There were cranky white women too. Linda Buchanan, Maria Harris and Mary Ann Booth come to mind.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I only saw part of it but it doesn't sound like I missed much. The vibe I got from it, which I'll admit isn't entirely accurate of everyone there (and probably isn't very PC) is that it was a room of cranky old white men. I'm pretty sure that's due to mostly seeing Brodie vs McCallum.

Originally Posted by waves

There were cranky white women too. Linda Buchanan, Maria Harris and Mary Ann Booth come to mind.

For some reason, they're thoroughly convinced that Surrey is double-dipping on rapid transit and will have to take time and resources from somebody else to get the Langley extension. So don't blame them for being cranky - blame them for being cranky and IGNORANT.

I mean really, they don't even get to say "I don't know, it's outside my jurisdiction" when they can read any random DailyHive article, Ctrl-C the part that says "$2.9 billion for the SkyTrain and BRT," Ctrl-C another part that says "$1.7 and $1.9 billion for light rail" and understand that the whole metro is getting a better deal while saving literally half a billion dollars or more.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Oh I expect many noses are out of joint and will be for some time. With any luck Vancouver and Surrey will stay friendly for the next few years, which should lead to some interesting times. I can see areas (such as the North Shore) having to suck up to Vancouver and all the other mayors to get enough votes for their transit projects - 'cause you know that unless it's an outstanding project Surrey will vote against anyone who has stood against them. I kind of want to sit back and watch it play out.

Business idea for TransLink:
- Make the Mayors' Council choose between a Coquitlam-Surrey Line or a Lonsdale-Richmond Line
- Make it pay-per-view
- Use the proceeds to set up a new B-Line

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Business idea for TransLink:
- Make the Mayors' Council choose between a Coquitlam-Surrey Line or a Lonsdale-Richmond Line
- Make it pay-per-view
- Use the proceeds to set up a new B-Line

We will have the most extensive bus rapid transit system in no time. Heck, we will bring back the old Vancouver streetcar network.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Business idea for TransLink:
- Make the Mayors' Council choose between a Coquitlam-Surrey Line or a Lonsdale-Richmond Line
- Make it pay-per-view
- Use the proceeds to set up a new B-Line

Originally Posted by BirchTrain

We will have the most extensive bus rapid transit system in no time. Heck, we will bring back the old Vancouver streetcar network.

So who's buying the first round?

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

For some reason, they're thoroughly convinced that Surrey is double-dipping on rapid transit and will have to take time and resources from somebody else to get the Langley extension. So don't blame them for being cranky - blame them for being cranky and IGNORANT.

I mean really, they don't even get to say "I don't know, it's outside my jurisdiction" when they can read any random DailyHive article, Ctrl-C the part that says "$2.9 billion for the SkyTrain and BRT," Ctrl-C another part that says "$1.7 and $1.9 billion for light rail" and understand that the whole metro is getting a better deal while saving literally half a billion dollars or more.

Brodie is a dumbass. He's your classic Metro Van politician who always has selfish ambitions for his city, though not as bad as Corrigan. If Corrigan was still here, the LRT wouldn't be cancelled and the Expo extension wouldn't move forward.

[Firebrand]

For the lols, here's the SBOT's response.

https://businessinsurrey.com/2018/11...delayed-again/

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

For the lols, here's the SBOT's response.

https://businessinsurrey.com/2018/11...delayed-again/

"This would alleviate the internal traffic congestion"

Is she joking? LRT would actually create more congestion and that is why the voters tossed it. Huberman is like an ostrich with her head buried in the sand. Can't face reality if you can't see it. You keep rehashing the safe old false facts hoping they will come true. By continuing on with her rant she is basically spitting in the face of voters who said a clear "NO"!!! Let is go SBT....

That's like the city of C going ahead with the Olympic bid anyway despite the referendum that said "NO".

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm no fan of Brodie or McCallum, but from what I followed, Brodie did have at least one point. He complained that we shouldn't be letting cities set regional policy. Yet that's just what they did when they allowed Surrey to pick LRT, and now to change their mind.

He referenced Richmond's then-preference for street level LRT for the Canada Line (Richmond portion anyway), and they were over-ridden.

You can argue what the right choice is (Skytrain for ALL, including Canada Line), but I think it's a fair point that billions of regional/provincial/federal dollars shouldn't be re-prioritized willy-nilly by populist morons that get voted in by a marginal number of votes.

Brodie also wanted to see a proper business case for the Fleetwood SkyTrain extension, which I don't think they've had yet, which I think is reasonable for a project that'll cost well north of a billion dollars.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Millennium2002

But it was not a marginal number of votes... Save for one council member, the rest of the city council of Surrey also flipped.

McCallum's councillors got between 27 and 36% of the vote, the ones from Surrey First got 22-30%. There wasn't an overwhelming landslide of votes for McCallum's team.

Edit: That said Integrity Now also ran on an anti-LRT / pro-SkyTrain position, although not as confrontational as McCallum's, and they did relatively well in the municipal election too so...

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

I like how the ones (i.e. Brodie) who are vehemently opposed to skytrain in Surrey are the same people residing in cities where skytrain or a derivative (i.e. Canada Line) has been adequately serving. The people in Surrey are tired of those North of the Fraser indulging themselves with Skytrain, while thinking skytrain is not necessary for Surrey...

He's pretty much rapidly becoming "Derek Corrigan 2.0". Thank goodness I didn't vote for him for the past 2 elections, but unfortunately, nobody here in Richmond bothers to go vote (partly due to huge proportion of non-citizens living in Richmond and ethnic Chinese and others who are traditionally apathetic to politics in general).