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  #6181  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 5:46 AM
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Definitely agree that the south end needs reworking in coordination with the new bridge when it's built. Combining the on ramps is one part. Another part is fixing the radius at the south end of the bridge; it is far too sharp and causes drivers to slow down significantly, particularly southbound.

It's good to hear the Bowinn wants rapid transit to cross the Inlet, but I still question whether the iron workers is the appropriate location for a rapid transit crossing rather than something independant that serves transit network connection goals first rather than vehicular connection goals. I hope that when an options analysis for different crossing options is completed that it is made public.
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  #6182  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 6:28 AM
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It's not the IWMB so much as its location - it's gotta be one of the two Narrows, and the First has already been ruled out, so by process of elimination...
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  #6183  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
It's not the IWMB so much as its location - it's gotta be one of the two Narrows, and the First has already been ruled out, so by process of elimination...
Why? The inlet isn't excessively deep.
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  #6184  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
Why? The inlet isn't excessively deep.
“a tunnel is likely not feasible as it is estimated to be technically challenging and expensive.”
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  #6185  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 5:50 PM
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Does the Iron Workers Memorial have one of the steepest grades for the bridgdeck in the Lower Mainland? In an ideal world it might be nice to start the incline further back on the North side.
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  #6186  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 6:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Does the Iron Workers Memorial have one of the steepest grades for the bridgdeck in the Lower Mainland? In an ideal world it might be nice to start the incline further back on the North side.
The Ironworkers' is a cantilever truss bridge and as a result the bridge deck is quite a bit above the maximum vertical clearance for shipping vessels. We just don't build this type of bridge anymore. Pretty much everything we build nowadays is a cable stayed bridge; See the new Port Mann bridge, and the new Pattullo bridge, and the Pitt River bridge, and the Golden Ears (essentially), and the Skybridge, and the North Arm Canada Line bridge... Compared to a truss bridge like the Ironworkers', the bridge deck is the vertical clearance.

Assuming a replacement Second Narrows bridge maintains the same vertical clearance, I imagine the bridge deck will be quite a bit lower meaning the grade of the approach will be much lower.
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  #6187  
Old Posted May 24, 2024, 7:18 PM
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Assuming a replacement Second Narrows bridge maintains the same vertical clearance, I imagine the bridge deck will be quite a bit lower meaning the grade of the approach will be much lower.
I wonder if that would have some small but non-negligible positive effect on traffic flow. Less accelerating up the incline and sudden braking down the decline (though the southbound curve on the south end doesn't help matters, currently).
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  #6188  
Old Posted May 25, 2024, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
Why? The inlet isn't excessively deep.
It's quite deep actually. The middle of the harbour is about 60 m deep. The narrows are much shallower.
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  #6189  
Old Posted May 25, 2024, 10:21 PM
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Why? The inlet isn't excessively deep.
Deep enough that a direct Waterfront-Lonsdale crossing has been off the table since before the Evergreen Line.
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  #6190  
Old Posted May 25, 2024, 11:39 PM
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I’d say the Alex Fraser approach on either side is just as steep
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  #6191  
Old Posted May 26, 2024, 1:59 AM
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Odds we get an Inlet Line and a new IWMB as an election promise?
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  #6192  
Old Posted May 26, 2024, 2:11 AM
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I’d say the Alex Fraser approach on either side is just as steep
Yeah, I've always heard that "too deep" argument and accepted it, but if we're talking 60 metres of depth over a 3 km run, and if we assume that it's 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 for the downgrade, flat run, and upgrade, then we get a 60m elevation difference over 1 km which works out to a grade of 6%. That's within Skytrain technology capabilities.

Now there may be other issues, such as whether the bottom is suitable for tunneling, but on the face of it the "too deep" argument doesn't seem as strong as I always believed it to be.
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  #6193  
Old Posted May 26, 2024, 4:32 AM
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I mean, it's possible (otherwise it wouldn't be in the study), but is it actually worth it compared to "just" using the Second Narrows? Not really.
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  #6194  
Old Posted May 26, 2024, 4:44 AM
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
Yeah, I've always heard that "too deep" argument and accepted it, but if we're talking 60 metres of depth over a 3 km run, and if we assume that it's 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 for the downgrade, flat run, and upgrade, then we get a 60m elevation difference over 1 km which works out to a grade of 6%. That's within Skytrain technology capabilities.

Now there may be other issues, such as whether the bottom is suitable for tunneling, but on the face of it the "too deep" argument doesn't seem as strong as I always believed it to be.
When they tunnelled the new 1.1km water main tunnel under Burrard Inlet a few years ago (which has a 5.8m diameter) they had to go 30m below the bottom of the Inlet to attain seismic stability. It's close to the Second Narrows Bridge, and I assume a transit tunnel would have to be at a similar depth - the Burnaby vertical shaft for the tunneling was 110m deep.
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  #6195  
Old Posted May 27, 2024, 2:11 AM
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When they tunnelled the new 1.1km water main tunnel under Burrard Inlet a few years ago (which has a 5.8m diameter) they had to go 30m below the bottom of the Inlet to attain seismic stability. It's close to the Second Narrows Bridge, and I assume a transit tunnel would have to be at a similar depth - the Burnaby vertical shaft for the tunneling was 110m deep.
Soil tunnelling gets more complicated with depth and pressure. Most of the local tunnels in soil aren't really much below 30-50m below the groundwater table. It makes sealing the TBM tail and maintenance more complicated.
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  #6196  
Old Posted May 27, 2024, 3:51 AM
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Soil tunnelling gets more complicated with depth and pressure. Most of the local tunnels in soil aren't really much below 30-50m below the groundwater table. It makes sealing the TBM tail and maintenance more complicated.
This probably means more to you than it does to me, but apparently the contractor, Aecon, used the first slurry tunnel boring machine to be used in Canada on the contract.
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  #6197  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2024, 1:17 AM
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Buzzer Blog - Knight Street Bridge: the first bridge repaved with innovative material

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As you travel across the Knight Street Bridge, you’re driving on innovation.

It’s the first and longest bridge span in Metro Vancouver and the province to be paved with polyester polymer concrete (PPC). It’s an innovative compound that is more durable, has higher skid resistance under all-weather conditions, and quicker to cure compared to asphalt and concrete.

This was a core component for the second phase of the Knight Street Bridge Rehabilitation Project. Here’s what we accomplished:

Replacing original bridge bearings with new bearings to ensure the continued integrity of the structure.

Milling and repaving the top layer of the concrete deck with polyester polymer concrete (PPC) overlay to preserve the deck.

Installing the railing separating vehicle lanes from the sidewalk to provide more protective separation between vehicles, cyclists, and pedestrians.

...
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  #6198  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2024, 1:29 AM
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Interesting. Traditional bitumen based asphalt has basically infinite recyclability, what happens to this material 30 years down the road when they inevitably rip it up to resurface? If it's just as recyclable that's fantastic.
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  #6199  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2024, 1:50 AM
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Interesting. Traditional bitumen based asphalt has basically infinite recyclability, what happens to this material 30 years down the road when they inevitably rip it up to resurface? If it's just as recyclable that's fantastic.
The article suggests the bridge deck was concrete, not asphalt. If you look on Google aerial images you can see a change in colour at the start of the bridge, which seems to support that. The polymer material is an overlay that uses resin rather than cement as a binder, and it's more waterproof and durable than regular concrete.
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  #6200  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2024, 2:42 AM
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I think he just meant if there were any problems recycling/reusing the PPC overlay if you need to tear it up in the future.

They used the same concrete on a few projects in the Lower Mainland. Kensington Overpass, Capilano Canyon Bridge, Canada Place Ramps

https://www.kingstonconstruction.ca/...ymer-concrete/
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