DETROIT | Hudson's Detroit | 685 FT & 240 FT | 49 & 14 FLOORS

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i have to strongly disagree.

those axonometric massing/stacking diagrams look extremely rough/approximate to my eye.

the development team has even stated that the final height of the tower won't even be determined until they get a hotel operator signed on who will then have input into their space requirements that will ultimately affect the final height of the tower.

everything regarding the tower's height so far seems to be pretty general/loose.

Nevermind the fact that the diagrams don't take into account the topography of a place, so using them as a tool for determining how something will appear on your skyline isn't very accurate. The best thing they're good at is showing their detail, color, and shape.

Of course, if your city happens to be flat with very little elevation climb, then you're probably ok. In a place like my city, where the elevation of our skyline climbs about 150 feet inside of 2 1/2 miles, it's best to use something that takes the topography into account.

[Jasoncw]

I agree that you can't really use this to figure out the final height of the tower, just because it's so up in the air, but I just did some pixel counting and the heights of the buildings are proportional to each other.

[pianowizard]

Originally Posted by Jasoncw

I agree that you can't really use this to figure out the final height of the tower, just because it's so up in the air, but I just did some pixel counting and the heights of the buildings are proportional to each other.

This height is likely the development team's best guess at this point. Thus I agree that the diagram wasn't arbitrary, but I also agree with others that we shouldn't overinterpret this height, since it's just a guess. All it shows is that the 912 ft height is no longer guaranteed, but we already knew that, so there's nothing to be alarmed about.

[seabee1526]

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...it/4609552002/

above ground construction by summer, height still a ?, but the 912' not ruled out by this report.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by seabee1526

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...it/4609552002/

above ground construction by summer, height still a ?, but the 912' not ruled out by this report.

You missed this, straight from Bedrock.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...s-bedrock-says

"It will not be the tallest," Cullen said of the Hudson's tower in response to a question from the Detroit Free Press. He said a determination will be made by June on the precise height as well as a hotel operator.

"I think what we concluded is we wanted an iconic building, we wanted to have a lot of characteristics relative to retail and public space and a world-class hospitality component and other things, and the need to be the tallest wasn't on our list of highest priorities," Cullen said.

So I guess expect something around the height of One Detroit Center. IDK how you go from 912 to 700 in a year... If they were just concept leaks why were they acted as official?

[Steely Dan]

^ rats.


oh well, after visiting the site for the first time two weekends ago, i'm still way enthusiastic about how MAJOR of a deal this project will be for repairing that massive hole in the urban fabric along woodward.

a new tallest would have been gravy, but overall this is still going to be a fantastic development for downtown.

[CrazyCres]

As long as the tower is taller than Ally Detroit Center I'm happy.

[pianowizard]

*SIGH*, I'm so pessimistic now, all I hope is it will still be tall enough to be a high-rise building, or else this thread would be kicked out of this "Skyscraper & Highrise Construction" forum. Emporis' definition of a high-rise:

"A multi-story structure between 35–100 meters tall, or a building of unknown height from 12–39 floors."

Will this "iconic building" be at least 35 meters tall? Gee...

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by pianowizard

*SIGH*, I'm so pessimistic now, all I hope is it will still be tall enough to be a high-rise building, or else this thread would be kicked out of this "Skyscraper & Highrise Construction" forum. Emporis' definition of a high-rise:

"A multi-story structure between 35–100 meters tall, or a building of unknown height from 12–39 floors."

Will this "iconic building" be at least 35 meters tall? Gee...

Nah, I think at this point they'll just go for a groundscraper and build into the earth

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by The North One

So I guess expect something around the height of One Detroit Center. IDK how you go from 912 to 700 in a year... If they were just concept leaks why were they acted as official?

They were possibilities. 912+ would have been the height had they landed a hotel operator to fill that much space. 600-700 is pretty much an all residential tower.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

They were possibilities. 912+ would have been the height had they landed a hotel operator to fill that much space. 600-700 is pretty much an all residential tower.

No, there was no height. There still is no height. The "912" nonsense was from one conceptual rendering, which was conveniently released when Bedrock asked (and received) nearly a billion in taxpayer subsidies. Those subsidies aren't tied to height or scale, BTW. Must have been a coincidence.

Bedrock has no clue on the final design. They don't even know the type of tenancy. It's some undetermined combination of office, hotel, residential, conference, retail, maybe all or maybe none of the above. They haven't submitted any building permits or design documents yet. All they're saying is they'll probably be above ground by the end of the year, which is what they said this time last year. They're obviously not close to finalized.

I bet you they build, but a flexible base platform, so they can obtain the subsidies. I don't think any tower will be built until the next economic cycle, given they seem nowhere near the hard decisions. I don't even think they'll be the next building rising downtown; that will probably be the UMich center, which actually has a tenant, plan and purpose.

[pianowizard]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Nah, I think at this point they'll just go for a groundscraper and build into the earth

Looks like a bunker for Dan Gilbert, LOL!

Originally Posted by Crawford

No, there was no height. There still is no height...Bedrock has no clue on the final design.

This is what I figured too. The pace of "construction" has been glacial. Some people said this was normal, there's nothing to be concerned about. But just contrast Hudson's progress with any of those skyscrapers going up in Chicago, where much more got done in a month than Hudson in 2 years (recall that construction began in Dec 2017). Bedrock simply doesn't know enough about the final design to proceed, and is stalling.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by pianowizard

This is what I figured too. The pace of "construction" has been glacial. Some people said this was normal, there's nothing to be concerned about. But just contrast Hudson's progress with any of those skyscrapers going up in Chicago, where much more got done in a month than Hudson in 2 years (recall that construction began in Dec 2017). Bedrock simply doesn't know enough about the final design to proceed, and is stalling.

It should be pretty obvious that Detroit isn't Chicago though. We don't really need to do a city v city on why the pace of construction is slower in a city with a smaller economy and doesn't normally have projects this big.

[pianowizard]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

It should be pretty obvious that Detroit isn't Chicago though. We don't really need to do a city v city on why the pace of construction is slower in a city with a smaller economy and doesn't normally have projects this big.

The two tallest Detroit buildings completed in the past three decades, namely Ally Detroit Center and Greektown Casino Hotel, were both constructed in about 2 years.

We still don't know how big a project Hudson Tower is. It may end up being significantly shorter than Ally Detroit Center, since the emphasis is now on having an iconic appearance rather than record-breaking height.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by pianowizard

The two tallest Detroit buildings completed in the past three decades, namely Ally Detroit Center and Greektown Casino Hotel, were both constructed in about 2 years.

We still don't know how big a project Hudson Tower is. It may end up being significantly shorter than Ally Detroit Center, since the emphasis is now on having an iconic appearance rather than record-breaking height.

A single tenant high rise and a casino hotel. And actually if you include MGM and Motor City then there were three total high rise hotels built in the same period.

However, the Hudson's tower portion doesn't contain any office space and the hotel size Bedrock apparently wanted was for a convention size hotel or roughly equivalent to the Marriott hotel of the Renaissance Center.

When compared to that, the Ren Cen started construction in 1973 and lasted 4 years until 1977. Plans for the Ren Cen were first announced in 1971 or a couple of years before construction started. So in total that's like several years from start to finish not including the fact that additional towers were expected to be constructed but never were except for two some 10 years later.

[animatedmartian]

• Video Link

Currently there's 2 crane bases and a 4 x 6 set of columns on the northern side of the pit.

[animatedmartian]

Dan Gilbert recently had his first public interview since suffering a stroke last year. As far as the Hudson's site goes, he says height will be determined by programming or, in other words, what tenant will ultimately occupy the hotel space. This is expected to be finalized sometime over the summer.

There's still "three or four plans" being worked on right now which could mean anything from the tower's height, programming, or even still the overall design.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...after-recovery

[The North One]

So what you're saying is, getting a new tallest is still a chance.

[animatedmartian]

According to Gilbert, height isn't the priority. Instead the goal is for the site as a whole to be a destination and the "best use" for the city.

Without saying it, I think Gilbert understands the importance of height, but if it takes too long to get the tenant needed then it's height is something he's willing to reduce just to get the project done.

[CrazyCres]

Basically, it mostly depends on the tenant for the hotel portion of the tower, it could go up it could go down (Likely down). It depends on the tenant and how much space they want.

I hope the design doesn't change, it's so reminiscent of NEMA and the Willis Tower in Chicago. I love it.