[Moncton] Dieppe Developments

[trev71]

Never really liked that Dieppe location of Swiss. Very hard to get in and out of. The Moncton one on Mountain road is easy to get to with plenty of parking.

[KnoxfordGuy]

I have a question. Are Moncton, Dieppe and Riverview all one city or all separate and just under the CMA? Why haven't they joined. Enlighten me! :p

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

I have a question. Are Moncton, Dieppe and Riverview all one city or all separate and just under the CMA? Why haven't they joined. Enlighten me! :p

You don't want to go down that rabbit hole but:

Three communities, one urban area, one CMA.

Why haven't they joined together - linguistic and cultural politics, pure and simple. It's a file that no politician has the acumen, guts or will to address. It would be a lose, lose, lose proposition for them. Municipal amalgamation in the Moncton CMA will never, ever happen.........

[Taeolas]

Well, "never never happen" might be too strong. But to make it happen, would take a Premier with balls of adamantium who wouldn't give a damn about the fallout, since he/she'd be killing that corner of the province for their party for at least a generation. (In other words, a McKenna^2 at the very least). And even then, they'd probably need the Moncton mayor on board, and probably one of the other ones as well.

Considering the state of our current politicians.... Yeah, "Never never happen" pretty much sums it up.

It's the sort of thing everyone looking at it from the outside sees and wonders "What the hell the hold up is?" and everyone on the inside is saying "Cold day in Hell before anything changes."

[mylesmalley]

There was a lot of resistance to Newcastle and Chatham merging years ago but people have more or less gotten over it. Tracadie just amalgamated to create the 7th (or 8th) largest municipality in the province.

Arguments about self determination, cultural differences, tax rates, local representation, job redundancies, lack of actual savings etc. invariably come up. People always bring up examples like Halifax, Montreal and Toronto - the latter which actually saw a degree of demalgamation as reasons why it doesn't work. Halifax is just far too huge. I know it's largely unpopulated, but a municipality that runs from Cape Sable Island to Ecum Secum is just ridiculous. Toronto and Montreal are massive in both senses and with so many more moving parts. Even they have made a lot of progress toward consolidation though.

Greater Moncton is small enough both in population terms and in geography that I don't think we'd have any trouble at all once we got past the obvious points of contention.

Moncton:
Pop: 69,074
Area: 141.17 sq km
Density: 489.3 people / sq km

Dieppe:
Population: 23,310
Area: 54.11 sq km
Density: 430.83 people / sq km

Riverview:
Population 19,128
Area: 33.88 km sq
Density: 564.6 people / sq km

Combined:
Population: 111,512
Area: 229.16 sq km
Density: 486.7 people / sq km

[JHikka]

It won't happen in the foreseeable future but i'd like to see it happen. What irks me more than the lack of amalgamation is the fact that Riverview continues to insist on being a Town despite meeting criteria for being a City. Quispamsis are Rothesay are also guilty of this and this lack of City-title allow them to piggyback off of existing infrastructure that the larger municipalities (Cities) contribute and pay for.

Sussex and Sussex Corner should amalgamate and I believe it'll be going to a vote in the near future. It's currently being discussed. Tracadie-Sheila is a good example to follow for a lot of smaller communities around the province and, as fiscal realities set in for a lot of these smaller communities, amalgamation is going to have to be the only way forward for them.

[Hogie75]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It won't happen in the foreseeable future but i'd like to see it happen. What irks me more than the lack of amalgamation is the fact that Riverview continues to insist on being a Town despite meeting criteria for being a City. Quispamsis are Rothesay are also guilty of this and this lack of City-title allow them to piggyback off of existing infrastructure that the larger municipalities (Cities) contribute and pay for.

Sussex and Sussex Corner should amalgamate and I believe it'll be going to a vote in the near future. It's currently being discussed. Tracadie-Sheila is a good example to follow for a lot of smaller communities around the province and, as fiscal realities set in for a lot of these smaller communities, amalgamation is going to have to be the only way forward for them.

There are cities such as Campbelton and Bathurst which should be downgraded to towns as their population has significantly dropped over the last 10 years and you are right, Riverview, Quispzmsis and Rothesay should be upgraded to cities.

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You don't want to go down that rabbit hole but:

Three communities, one urban area, one CMA.

Why haven't they joined together - linguistic and cultural politics, pure and simple. It's a file that no politician has the acumen, guts or will to address. It would be a lose, lose, lose proposition for them. Municipal amalgamation in the Moncton CMA will never, ever happen.........

Well maybe it's unlikely to see massive 3-way amalgamation due to the linguistic issues, but I'm confident Moncton and Riverview could join if Dieppe plays the French card. Then you're looking at

Population: 88,202
Area: 175.05 sq km
Density: 503.86 people / sq km

[gehrhardt]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It won't happen in the foreseeable future but i'd like to see it happen. What irks me more than the lack of amalgamation is the fact that Riverview continues to insist on being a Town despite meeting criteria for being a City.

Isn't this because if they were a "city" they'd be required to provide services in both official languages, along with lots of infrastructure improvements?

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by gehrhardt

Isn't this because if they were a "city" they'd be required to provide services in both official languages, along with lots of infrastructure improvements?

Actually I think they are still required to serve people in both official languages it is a town within NB, and there are business owners who have made complaints about the blatant disregard, and ignorance by some employees in the town of Riverview.

[pierremoncton]

Only incorporated cities and a handful of other municipalities are required to provide bilingual services.

New Brunswick's cities (Bathurst, Campbellton, Dieppe, Edmundston, Fredericton, Miramichi, Moncton, Saint John) as well as some municipalities (Atholville, Charlo, Dalhousie, Eel River Crossing, Rexton, Richibucto, Shediac, Tide Head) must provide certain services to the public in both official languages, including publication of information of a general nature. This obligation also applies to the following Regional Service Commissions: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 11.

http://www.officiallanguages.nb.ca/my-rights

[DTBourque]

I don't agree that it's a linguistic issue. Here are a few reasons why:

1. Moncton has a slightly larger Francophone population than Dieppe. Many important Francophone institutions are in Moncton, not Dieppe. For example, the Université de Moncton.

2. When Rothesay and Quispamsis amalgamate with Saint John or even become cities in their own right, then we can talk about why Moncton and Dieppe haven't amalgamated yet. The trend in NB has not been amalgamation anywhere, except in places like Sussex and Tracadie-Sheila, which I think are very different cases.

3. Dieppe is New Brunswick's fourth largest city and has developed as a city with an identity of its own. Part of that identity has to do with its demographics, almost 3/4 of Dieppe residents are Francophone, but it also has things like its own design criteria and its own downtown too. It's got its own industrial parks and its own commercial base.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by gehrhardt

Isn't this because if they were a "city" they'd be required to provide services in both official languages, along with lots of infrastructure improvements?

Correct. A lot of new infrastructure and works projects come under the onus of the municipality as soon as they become a City. The language requirement is a big determining factor for a few communities (Riverview, Sussex, SJ Valley) i'm sure. I'd like to see the Province alter regulations to give municipalities an option to provide bilingual services to encourage more of them to gain that status. As of right now there's no pressure from the Province to do anything.

Originally Posted by pierremoncton

New Brunswick's cities (Bathurst, Campbellton, Dieppe, Edmundston, Fredericton, Miramichi, Moncton, Saint John) as well as some municipalities (Atholville, Charlo, Dalhousie, Eel River Crossing, Rexton, Richibucto, Shediac, Tide Head) must provide certain services to the public in both official languages, including publication of information of a general nature. This obligation also applies to the following Regional Service Commissions: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 11.

"Certain" services? It's essentially any service the City provides.

Originally Posted by DTBourque

1. Moncton has a slightly larger Francophone population than Dieppe. Many important Francophone institutions are in Moncton, not Dieppe. For example, the Université de Moncton.

Moncton as a city has many more people than Dieppe. It's ratio for French/English is much lower.

Originally Posted by DTBourque

2. When Rothesay and Quispamsis amalgamate with Saint John or even become cities in their own right, then we can talk about why Moncton and Dieppe haven't amalgamated yet. The trend in NB has not been amalgamation anywhere, except in places like Sussex and Tracadie-Sheila, which I think are very different cases.

How are Sussex and Tracadie different from Saint John and Moncton?

Quispamsis and Rothesay are probably less likely to amalgamate with Saint John than the Moncton region is to amalgamate. Using the argument that we can't discuss one thing until another thing happens (in another area) is pretty weak, IMO.

Originally Posted by DTBourque

3. Dieppe is New Brunswick's fourth largest city and has developed as a city with an identity of its own.

It is also an appendage of NB's largest City.

[DTBourque]

@JHikka

No doubt that people in Dieppe (and Riverview) use some of Moncton's services (and vice-versa). Amalgamation is one solution that would help create fairness there. I am not particularly opposed to amalgamation personally. My point was that language isn't the best explanation for why the cities haven't been amalgamated yet - my arguments aren't intended as being for or against amalgamation.

More Francophones are currently living in Moncton than in Dieppe. Francophone ties to Moncton are at least as strong as they are to Dieppe because of the people who live there and the institutions that are there - even if Francophones are a minority in Moncton.

(Btw, I'm assuming that Moncton's Anglophones would be fine with amalgamation because there is already a significant Francophone minority in Moncton and the Moncton CMA, and because the larger city benefits in obvious ways from amalgamation.)

Can't talk about it was a figure of speech, not an argument to be taken literally. Saint John was a counterexample to the idea the Moncton hadn't amalgamated with Dieppe because of language - because SJ and its suburbs haven't amalgamated either and they are all Anglophone. My point is that amalgamation has been a bumpy road in NB. Even with SJ suffering with so many of its service users not being part of its tax base, amalgamation isn't really on the horizon there either.

Tracadie-Sheila and Sussex are amalgamations in rural areas. The challenges those kinds of amalgamations try to overcome are not the same in kind as those between cities. So, I don't think we can point to those and compare them directly with SJ or Moncton.

Appendage is a matter of perspective. I've argued that Dieppe is self-sufficient and distinct enough, and in ways other than language, that it doesn't have to define itself in terms of Moncton.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by DTBourque

@JHikka

No doubt that people in Dieppe (and Riverview) use some of Moncton's services (and vice-versa). Amalgamation is one solution that would help create fairness there. I am not particularly opposed to amalgamation personally. My point was that language isn't the best explanation for why the cities haven't been amalgamated yet - my arguments aren't intended as being for or against amalgamation.

More Francophones are currently living in Moncton than in Dieppe. Francophone ties to Moncton are at least as strong as they are to Dieppe because of the people who live there and the institutions that are there - even if Francophones are a minority in Moncton.

(Btw, I'm assuming that Moncton's Anglophones would be fine with amalgamation because there is already a significant Francophone minority in Moncton and the Moncton CMA, and because the larger city benefits in obvious ways from amalgamation.)

Can't talk about it was a figure of speech, not an argument to be taken literally. Saint John was a counterexample to the idea the Moncton hadn't amalgamated with Dieppe because of language - because SJ and its suburbs haven't amalgamated either and they are all Anglophone. My point is that amalgamation has been a bumpy road in NB. Even with SJ suffering with so many of its service users not being part of its tax base, amalgamation isn't really on the horizon there either.

Tracadie-Sheila and Sussex are amalgamations in rural areas. The challenges those kinds of amalgamations try to overcome are not the same in kind as those between cities. So, I don't think we can point to those and compare them directly with SJ or Moncton.

Appendage is a matter of perspective. I've argued that Dieppe is self-sufficient and distinct enough, and in ways other than language, that it doesn't have to define itself in terms of Moncton.

The reasons I've heard for not amalgamating for Riverview Is because they don't want to be a city or part of a city, and also from what I've heard from developers is they don't want to have to give services in french, and for Dieppe I think it is as you said because they have there own downtown, and want there own flavor separate from other cities. Because towns outside of Moncton There would be so many hurtles to surpass so areas can still have there own look, and flavor if we where to amalgamate.

[Patapouf26]

Originally Posted by DTBourque

@JHikka

No doubt that people in Dieppe (and Riverview) use some of Moncton's services (and vice-versa). Amalgamation is one solution that would help create fairness there. I am not particularly opposed to amalgamation personally. My point was that language isn't the best explanation for why the cities haven't been amalgamated yet - my arguments aren't intended as being for or against amalgamation.

More Francophones are currently living in Moncton than in Dieppe. Francophone ties to Moncton are at least as strong as they are to Dieppe because of the people who live there and the institutions that are there - even if Francophones are a minority in Moncton.

(Btw, I'm assuming that Moncton's Anglophones would be fine with amalgamation because there is already a significant Francophone minority in Moncton and the Moncton CMA, and because the larger city benefits in obvious ways from amalgamation.)

Can't talk about it was a figure of speech, not an argument to be taken literally. Saint John was a counterexample to the idea the Moncton hadn't amalgamated with Dieppe because of language - because SJ and its suburbs haven't amalgamated either and they are all Anglophone. My point is that amalgamation has been a bumpy road in NB. Even with SJ suffering with so many of its service users not being part of its tax base, amalgamation isn't really on the horizon there either.

Tracadie-Sheila and Sussex are amalgamations in rural areas. The challenges those kinds of amalgamations try to overcome are not the same in kind as those between cities. So, I don't think we can point to those and compare them directly with SJ or Moncton.

Appendage is a matter of perspective. I've argued that Dieppe is self-sufficient and distinct enough, and in ways other than language, that it doesn't have to define itself in terms of Moncton.

[Patapouf26]

Originally Posted by L'homard

I can't say for sure but I don't believe they have children to pass on the restaurant to. Like I say, I don't know that for a fact but have talked with this guy many times over many years and he's never mentioned kids and I've never seen offspring there.

Just to clear this up. They do have a son in his early thirties. He was actually the guy running (pretty much) the whole show for the last ten years or so. That's how his dad got to start his various projects. The son is moving on to a different project more closely related to his university studies.

[Sandbagger]

Newbie alert: Been reading for a few years now and I feel maybe it's time to contribute.

Here's the 2016 & 2017 scheduled roadwork projects for Dieppe. This is from the most recent DieppeMAG





Of note looks like they are planning to complete next phase of Dieppe blvd through to LeBlanc Rd in 2017. This of course is where the new fire station sits now. And they are finally going to resurface Thomas St over the next 2 years. With Amirault, Pascal, Centrale and Dieppe Blvd all receiving work this year that would make a good chunk of pretty much every major route into downtown Dieppe, Moncton and the highway new within the last 5 years or so.

[MonctonRad]

Nice. Thanks for the info. Welcome to the forums!!

[JHikka]

What's the final plan for Dieppe boulevard? An extension and alignment with Route 925 further south looks pretty convenient.