Sacramento Proposal/Approval/Construction Thread - III

[Majin]

Originally Posted by ltsmotorsport

While it may be cheaper than the Bay Area, the lenders also know there's more money to be made from projects there rather than here. Therefore, more money is available to lend there, and more projects proposed/get built there. It's a game played for money against time, where the winner gets to make the most money the sooner they open the doors. If you can make more money in location A over location B, you go to A because a lender will look more favorably on your project.

This is all not to say it is impossible here, just harder, with scrutiny by lenders being that much more intense. Of course our market can absorb what has been proposed, and many more projects, but only so much money will come here (see above).

This is especially important to consider when seeing larger projects such as Yamanee and Sac Commons. These are larger projects from developers with ties to money outside of Sacramento. If we truly want more central city housing and residents (of all income levels), these projects must be supported by everyone who says they want downtown and midtown to thrive. Showing these projects can not only be approved, but are supported by the community, says a lot about the maturity of the city's residents and invites more investment in housing developments for the city in the future.

So far I have not seen any evidence the city and business leaders are nothing but supportive (in the KJ era). The residents seem for the most part supportive with their wallets besides the vocal minority old guard, but who cares if the projects get built and are successful?

[Pistola916]

Rumor has it Vanir Tower to go to Planning Commission this summer. Hopefully we see a more striking and taller design.

http://livinginurbansac.blogspot.com...vated.html?m=1

[Korey]

The wood frames are going up for the next phase of Park Moderns townhomes in West Sac. Barn is almost done, but no real landscaping around it yet.

I saw a decent amount of dirt moving around at Township 9, anyone know what's going on there? Just infrastructure work or any pending development?

Also, I saw the cut for G to get extended to 5th and 6th streets. When will 5th and 6th open btw?

The bridge from Curtis Park Village to Sac City is almost done, will be a great view spot.

Originally Posted by Pistola916

Rumor has it Vanir Tower to go to Planning Commission this summer. Hopefully we see a more striking and taller design.

http://livinginurbansac.blogspot.com...vated.html?m=1

With the Arena hotel/condos, the J St streetwall is going to look great.

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

Rumor has it Vanir Tower to go to Planning Commission this summer. Hopefully we see a more striking and taller design.

http://livinginurbansac.blogspot.com...vated.html?m=1

I'm skeptical that Vanir will ever get built. But like you said, hopefully the new proposal is taller than the first proposal. Even an additional four stories would help an otherwise mediocre design.

[Pistola916]

Originally Posted by urban_encounter

I'm skeptical that Vanir will ever get built. But like you said, hopefully the new proposal is taller than the first proposal. Even an additional four stories would help an otherwise mediocre design.

I feel the opposite. Vanir will get built. It's the Metropolitan I am more skeptical. The city has shown, albeit in a glacier pace, that it can construct office-specific high-rises (621, 500 capitol mall) Residential towers not so much.

[ltsmotorsport]

Originally Posted by Majin

So far I have not seen any evidence the city and business leaders are nothing but supportive (in the KJ era). The residents seem for the most part supportive with their wallets besides the vocal minority old guard, but who cares if the projects get built and are successful?

Good and bad news about recent projects, including Yamanee: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/new...e79432667.html

[Majin]

Originally Posted by ltsmotorsport

Good and bad news about recent projects, including Yamanee: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/new...e79432667.html

Where is the bad news?

[Korey]

Whole Foods and Crystal Ice not starting yet maybe?

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

I feel the opposite. Vanir will get built. It's the Metropolitan I am more skeptical. The city has shown, albeit in a glacier pace, that it can construct office-specific high-rises (621, 500 capitol mall) Residential towers not so much.

I agree about the Metropolitan. Highrise residential towers that aren't part of a mixed use project are unlikely in Downtown Sacramento.

[BillSimmons]

Originally Posted by ltsmotorsport

Good and bad news about recent projects, including Yamanee: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/new...e79432667.html

Our very own hindrance to development making an appearance!

[wburg]

Originally Posted by Korey

Whole Foods and Crystal Ice not starting yet maybe?

Whole Foods hasn't started yet, but the residential portion of Crystal Ice is going vertical, and the office portion (using the old Orchard Supply wall) is under construction. The fire was a huge setback to the project but the new building design was submitted and looks interesting--maybe just disappointed they didn't add more housing on the additional floors! Looks like some kind of site prep is going on at 19th & Q Street/20th & Q Street for the SKK housing planned there.

[ltsmotorsport]

Originally Posted by BillSimmons

Our very own hindrance to development making an appearance!

Relevant portion of the article for the Yamanee appeal:

For now, developers appear to be racing to build homes, shops and restaurants in the central city. Hansen, Mayor Kevin Johnson and other city leaders have touted an initiative to attract 10,000 units of housing to the central city over the next decade.

Incremental steps are being taken to reach that goal, including the planning commission’s May 12 approval of midtown’s tallest residential structure.

Yamanee, a 178-foot tower at 25th and J streets, received mixed reviews from neighborhood activists and preservationists. Some have lauded it as an architectural jewel that will attract new residents to the midtown grid, while others argued that a building of its height belongs downtown. The plans call for the building to include 134 condos with large patios and fireplaces that face inside and out, much like the lanais found in Hawaiian homes. The rooftop, 13 stories above J Street, would include a gym, sun deck and lap pool.

“We must look inward and upward when contemplating new development in Sacramento,” Julie Murphy, co-chair of the nearby Marshall School/New Era Park Neighborhood Association, told the planning commission.

However, central city historian William Burg has appealed the planning commission’s approval, calling for a full City Council review of the project in the coming weeks. In approving the tower, planning commissioners are allowing the developer to exceed the neighborhood’s height limit by more than 100 feet. Burg said he is concerned the approval opens the door to developers seeking to build tall buildings in other neighborhoods, including East Sacramento, Land Park and Curtis Park.

“The ‘significant community benefit’ justification for Yamanee is based on design aesthetics, housing, environmentally friendly features and transit orientation, but a project that fits within the existing height limit could provide all of the purported benefits to a similar degree,” he said.


I just don't understand the fear of height, and it's not even 200 feet tall. If the project were shorter and had similar qualities, much more property would have had to be bought and a bulkier building proposed, taking out more of the existing urban fabric. Cities are also living systems that change over time, especially along commercial corridors and when neighborhoods are so protected by many laws and policies, such as historic districts.

[BillSimmons]

I just think it's funny that the primary reasoning he gave (at least from what can be gleaned from this article) is a general fear of tall buildings sprouting up all over the city! Can you imagine?!? It would be CHAOS! Next thing you know there's gonna be a skyscraper in every neighborhood!

[Korey]

Originally Posted by wburg

Whole Foods hasn't started yet, but the residential portion of Crystal Ice is going vertical, and the office portion (using the old Orchard Supply wall) is under construction. The fire was a huge setback to the project but the new building design was submitted and looks interesting--maybe just disappointed they didn't add more housing on the additional floors! Looks like some kind of site prep is going on at 19th & Q Street/20th & Q Street for the SKK housing planned there.

Shame about the fire but I agree the new design doesn't look terrible. I haven't been in that area in a bit, or at least didn't see behind Safeway. Last I saw was stuff moving around for the SKK project (or at least I thought); thanks for the update!

If CADA can get Westminster and their Site 21 up, think of what a 5 block walk from 16th street station will get you to. Not a lot of highrises this cycle but the city's looking up! Hopefully we can fly under the radar for a bit longer before the Portland-esque hype machine ruins things.

[Korey]

Originally Posted by BillSimmons

I just think it's funny that the primary reasoning he gave (at least from what can be gleaned from this article) is a general fear of tall buildings sprouting up all over the city! Can you imagine?!? It would be CHAOS! Next thing you know there's gonna be a skyscraper in every neighborhood!

There are plenty of places something that high can go. Downtown would love to have it. It'd probably be pretty profitable to build a highrise in Greenwich Village but that ain't happening.

[Pistola916]

I find it hard to believe that of all the projects approved so far, the Whole Foods mixed-use complex might be the last one to break ground. They were the first ones to gain approval. Are they really going to wait until the new parking garage on 21st and Capitol is completed. I thought these projects were going to be build simultaneously.

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by Korey

There are plenty of places something that high can go. Downtown would love to have it. It'd probably be pretty profitable to build a highrise in Greenwich Village but that ain't happening.

This is an interesting point. While I don't agree with wburg in this situation, I HIGHLY respect his intellect, point of view, and thought process. I don't think we should bash him and simplify it to "fear of tall buildings". It's about the neighborhood...and the character of the neighborhood...and what impact this high-rise building will have on that character. Again, I don't agree with him. But, I respect his opinions and his intentions!

[wburg]

Originally Posted by Pistola916

I find it hard to believe that of all the projects approved so far, the Whole Foods mixed-use complex might be the last one to break ground. They were the first ones to gain approval. Are they really going to wait until the new parking garage on 21st and Capitol is completed. I thought these projects were going to be build simultaneously.

The developer on the project owns the building across the street and uses the current structure on 21st and L as their parking garage--they want to build the new parking structure first so their employees won't be without a place to park while the Whole Foods and apartments building is under construction. Kind of like the Co-Op project at 28th & R Street--they built the parking structure to replace the DHA lot before starting on the Co-Op itself--which looks like it's not far from completion, by the way.

[BillSimmons]

Originally Posted by Korey

There are plenty of places something that high can go. Downtown would love to have it. It'd probably be pretty profitable to build a highrise in Greenwich Village but that ain't happening.

The obvious problem with that logic is that the owner/developer don't own a property on the other side of 16th street to build that project. It is where it is. It's not going to significantly change the character of the neighborhood.

This is a great project for Sacramento. It will provide some much-needed housing to a part of the city that everyone unaimously agrees is in serious need for more housing. A high-rise residential project succeeding in Midtown should open up more possibilities for these kinds of projects to work in downtown as well.

[urban_encounter]

Originally Posted by ltsmotorsport

I just don't understand the fear of height, and it's not even 200 feet tall. If the project were shorter and had similar qualities, much more property would have had to be bought and a bulkier building proposed, taking out more of the existing urban fabric. Cities are also living systems that change over time, especially along commercial corridors and when neighborhoods are so protected by many laws and policies, such as historic districts.

Yeah I would tend to agree with you. I'm not sure the people who are voicing the most concern for the relative modest height really have that much experience with urban environments outside of Sacramento.

A midrise like this project definitely fits in with the fabric of Sacramento's Mid-Town in that location. Secondly, I would be more interested in how Yamanre will help liven up the surrounding neighborhood which is where I think Julie Murphy is coming from. It's certainly a much more appealing project than another subdivision in Natomas.

This project is too tall to be wood or modular construction so it would likely be reinforced concrete and/or steel. That could be significant step in helping to get other projects of similar height (or taller) off the ground in Sacramento.

The question is whether they can get the project underway and completed before the economy starts its inevitable decline again?