LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[brudy]

Originally Posted by bjornson

As an aside, if you ever decide to go to architecture school, let me know and you'll better understand what point I'm trying to get across.

The question is how this will better engage the civic center area that can sometimes feel a bit awkward when you think about it cohesively. I suppose what I'm referring to is the way the LAPD (AECOM) and the Caltrans (Morphosis) buildings engage passerby and those working in them on a daily basis. There's a way to go about things especially with so many limitations like federal courthouse. But it's a courthouse so the expectations weren't super high.

Cladding could potentially do wonders for this project but I'm afraid SOM will just stick to what they know and there are going to be strict federal guidelines that will limit what they can do especially with the design already in place.

I agree - there's a standoffishness to the building in the renderings, probably to do with how the cube is raised off the base, that makes it look a little Orwellian. The Caltrans and the LAPD building invite you to explore them (at least the exteriors and the areas right around the buildings). I thin it's difficult to tell though in the renderings. It will be interesting to see how the Court Cube ends up engaging with the street, and what's up with that second building. I remember reading somewhere that one of the designs had two structures, so maybe that's it on the other side there.

[Mojeda101]

I find it interesting that they included the Grand Avenue project to their render. It's a decent simple design. No need to go all out and it's a suitable height for the immediate area on Broadway. Since it's uphill, it gives the area a bit of a step-up type of thing. I love how they incorporated the park on the lot across the street from City Hall. The eyesore has disappeared in the render Hope the feral cats are dealt with nicely though

[Kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Yeah, and low-income apartments on the top.

And thus LA's continues strange paradox of low-income/workforce housing having the most daring and avant-garde designs. And often the lowest budgets!

And that burger at Coco looks wonderful! I may return home for a bit next month, and would love to try that out. Along with my many, beloved hole-in-the-walls

[LA/OCman]

Originally Posted by citywatch

After seeing how quiet it was saturday evening, I wondered if there was possibly poor word of mouth about the restaurant. So I checked the reviews at yelp & they're generally good to so-so about towne. There are a few complaints about how brightly lit the room is. however, the one review that stood out to me was the person who visited it on a recent weekday & mentioned there weren't too many customers in the place. That along with what I saw on saturday is what made me a bit concerned.

however, I will say on that same night I did see a group of customers lined up outside of hooters on fig. I'm assuming they were waiting for tables to open up. Not too surprising that they appeared to be mainly or only guys. the LA auto show taking place across the street certainly didn't hurt with that restaurant's target audience.

I don't know when the saturation point in the hood will be reached, but I hope that's still way, way, way off into the future. I know that point was reached a long time ago for office space, which has yet to recover. There also was an oversupply of hotel rms not too many yrs ago, although I like to think that's no longer true. That means whatever slack still exists has to be taken up by space for ppl living in dt & for stores, inc restaurants.

I noticed through the yrs that quite a few bldgs, older & newer, throughout dt have 'for lease' signs tacked up on their sides. Those make the hood seem like it's always struggling to attract ppl...businesses....stores. considering how some of those signs seem to be permanently nailed onto certain bldgs, I've wondered if they ever really help bring in potential tenants?



Since you live in dt, you're a better judge of how the typical store is doing there. But I know when I was in the hood 2 nights ago, there were some businesses....inc stores & restaurants.....scattered around spring st, the OBD, broadway & little tokyo that looked like they'd have been quite happy to see more customers streaming through the front door.

But whether they're in dt or some other part of town that's a work in progress, so many smaller shops really do struggle to make ends meet. That's why I think it makes little sense to expect all new projs to include retail on their main floor. When all the swapmeet stores & vacant 1st floor spaces throughout dt are a thing of the past, then I'd understand a desire to have more shops in totally new projs.

I wouldn't be too concerned. The restaurants that have either excellent food, excellent value or a unique atmosphere will do well. I ate at Towne on a Sunday before heading to the Hollywood Bowl and loved the main course (pork for two) and hated the desserts which were dry. The wine also was pricey and I communicated my concerns to the GM. He responded which was a class act. Towne has a lot of potential...but it will be hit or miss until they address some issues such as slow service, stale desserts and expensive glasses of wine.

Many boutiques around Spring seem to do well. Much better than most boutiques I was used to seeing in Laguna Beach where they open and close frequently. We need a continuation of new housing and residents, we will see the Streetcar connect Downtown neighborhoods in the future and we need more retail shops. Broadway is the linchpin and if Broadway develops as planned, it will be a catalyst for other areas. I am curious to see how successful the huge new restaurant Figaro will do. When Clifton's opens they could be a dynamic duo. Those of us who have lived Downtown know that some nights are very busy and other not so. Holidays are dead for the most part. Conventions, special events and LA Live activities help to energize the streets. I love the fact that there are residential buildings emerging again. Look at the Eastern Columbia. No retail for years...now we are seeing activity due to the upcoming Ace Hotel, Umamicatessen, the renovation of the Blackstone lofts and events at the Orpheum.

[BrandonJXN]

Regarding the new courthouse:it looks like Salt Lake City's new courthouse and that's not a bad design.


http://newcitymovement.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345231de69e20134881d7999970c-580wi

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by bjornson

I guess I shouldn't have expected any sort of visionary design from SOM. It's very middle of the road and crowd pleasing. I suppose there's just a lot of precedent with the Portland and San Francisco's federal courthouses designed by LA based Morphosis. Then again we are in an entirely different era of austerity and restrained ambition in design. There's definitely a way to design glass boxes but I'm afraid this may just end up tame and a lesser version of the Perkins+Will proposal.

$400 mil is not exactly austere. There are supertalls getting built for less than that. It's actually pretty incredible that the government is gonna spend that much money on this piece of crap. Why do podunk towns like Buffallo, SLC, etc. get better federal buildings that the 2nd largest city in the country?

[DJM19]

I like the courthouse design but the interaction with the street (the never-ending blank wall next to the sidewalk) seems a giant FU to the pedestrian experience.

It looks like there is some sort of park like setting beyond the wall, why not open it up to the pedestrian?

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by DJM19

I like the courthouse design but the interaction with the street (the never-ending blank wall next to the sidewalk) seems a giant FU to the pedestrian experience.

It looks like there is some sort of park like setting beyond the wall, why not open it up to the pedestrian?

This is pretty common with federal buildings. They are often anti-urban, with large setbacks, security bollards, and as you note, blank walls-- all defensive architecture for security.

[Muji]

The new courthouse is an enormous lost opportunity. No matter how nice the cladding turns out to be, it looks pretty clear that the building will not engage the sidewalk in any meaningful way for most of its superblock-sized perimeter. Even if it's just a dirt lot now, the building's practically another step backwards in improving walkability between the Civic Center and upper Historic Core.

[Allnatural85]

I also feel it has to be set back due to security reason.

[Kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by Muji

The new courthouse is an enormous lost opportunity. No matter how nice the cladding turns out to be, it looks pretty clear that the building will not engage the sidewalk in any meaningful way for most of its superblock-sized perimeter. Even if it's just a dirt lot now, the building's practically another step backwards in improving walkability between the Civic Center and upper Historic Core.

Not to make an excuse for it, but don't Federal/Government buildings, at least the fairly important ones, always have (require, even?) such designs and setbacks?

[Dale]

Indeed, owing to the OKC bombing, the stringent security standards it engendered, it's hard to see how a courthouse could even begin to interact with the street in the way conventional buildings can.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by LA/OCman

Those of us who have lived Downtown know that some nights are very busy and other not so. Holidays are dead for the most part. Conventions, special events and LA Live activities help to energize the streets.

It's odd to go from crowded fwys all around dt, & then enter the surface streets of the hood itself, only to discover a surprisingly quiet area. I've often felt that if more ppl who clog all the major roads around dt either lived in the hood or were on the fwys cuz they were headed to dt, the fwys wouldn't be so crowded.

By richard1johnston2 / November 28, 2012

Recently, I had the pleasure of visiting the Walt Disney Concert Hall in downtown Los Angeles. This made reading Herbert Muschamp’s article “Architecture View; Gehry’s Disney Hall: A Matterhorn for Music” in the New York Times interesting because of the discrepancy between the date of my visit and the date Muschamp’s article was publish. Muschamp writes that the goals of the Concert Hall were to “revitalize the city’s downtown” and “lift [the city’s] cultural profile”. These goals were written in 1992, and now in 2012, after just visiting the Concert Hall, I will evaluate the extent to which they were accomplished.

The first goal of the Concert Hall was to help revitalize downtown LA. After visiting downtown LA, I would be hard pressed to say that the Concert Hall was successful at this. I visited mid-day on a weekend just after a holiday, a time you would expect to see a major city’s hustle. However the streets were dead. There were very few people out and, aside from the freeways the streets were relatively quiet. The environment was so calm that it reminded me of the Corbusian “Tower City”; an idea that brings the calm and relaxing nature of the suburbs into the city.

Although the goal of revitalizing downtown LA seems to have failed, the Concert Hall does a very good job of lifting the city’s cultural profile... Overall, although the Concert Hall did not revitalize downtown Los Angeles, it did create an environment where the arts could shine. Today, the Walt Disney Concert Hall is regarded to be one of the most famous Concert Halls – an icon of Halls. Performers jump at the idea of performing at such a grand and elegant stage.

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Regarding the new courthouse:it looks like Salt Lake City's new courthouse and that's not a bad design.

They say that beauty is altogether in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I don't care for the design of the bldg in utah.....which is way too similar to the SOM bldg proposed for dtla. I think the bldg in salt lake is very blah & the little wedged shape thingamajigs on the top are .

It's kind of , cuz normally when a new proj in dt causes a variety of ppl to complain about it being too short, I don't find that to be much of an issue. But in the case of the new courthouse, cuz I've long assumed it would contain at least a few more floors...& would be taller....the artwork from SOM indicates a new bldg that is going to be so squat, it will be barely visible from more than a few blocks away. in that case, I do feel....

but I'm so tired of all the delays & slowness in filling up that huge gap at 1st & broadway, I say just build the damn thing already!

[bjornson]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

$400 mil is not exactly austere. There are supertalls getting built for less than that. It's actually pretty incredible that the government is gonna spend that much money on this piece of crap. Why do podunk towns like Buffallo, SLC, etc. get better federal buildings that the 2nd largest city in the country?

The point is that so much more is done with (much) less. I cited precedent with other federal courthouses both of which cost less than $200 million. At the end of the day, it's an austere design. Part of what's probably pushing the cost so high is the new process and the change orders that occurred. Then there's the potential sale of the current courthouse.

Civic buildings aren't meant to engage the public in the ways that local buildings do because they are so many limitations like setbacks and security. It's the reason ballards are a standard everywhere.

Also, great pics, Mojeda. It makes me wish I didn't leave LA for NYC.

[brudy]

Originally Posted by citywatch

It's odd to go from crowded fwys all around dt, & then enter the surface streets of the hood itself, only to discover a surprisingly quiet area. I've often felt that if more ppl who clog all the major roads around dt either lived in the hood or were on the fwys cuz they were headed to dt, the fwys wouldn't be so crowded.

Different areas have very different feelings. The Financial District and south feel like any large city during the day. Spring has a more Lower East Side vibe and is very active almost all the time. Little Tokyo is also very active. But there are huge holes and gaps that need to be filled in. It's disconcerting though to be walking SE down 7th and the moment you cross Olive there's nothing worth going to for 3 blocks. It's like two different worlds. The jewelery district really blocks the connectability between historic core the financial district.

That said, I still like living downtown. I can walk for most stuff, it has a lot of energy (good and bad), it's exciting - there's always something going on, and my loft is amazing. I could never afford this size space in NYC, it's probably a third of what it would cost in NY. That said, I only have another year, maybe 2, before I'm priced out, given the rent increases. I'm trying to hold out until some of these new buildings come online. I'm really interested in the Little Tokyo developments on 2nd st.

[Illithid Dude]

Found some new renders of the courthouse on Arch Daily. Also, check out dat cladding! I love the three-dimensional serration effect that seems to be going on. You all said that the building was boring. I said that the cladding would pull it through. Trust in SOM guys. Trust.



And interior:



Also, I feel like this is a higher-quality, more detailed render of the front, so I'll post it.

[Gram3000]

Meh. Still wish there was some kind of facade projection & maybe 5 more stories. It does look like the facade pays some homage to or was inspired by the Hall of Records bldg across the way.

[SoCalKid]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Found some new renders of the courthouse on Arch Daily. Also, check out dat cladding! I love the three-dimensional serration effect that seems to be going on. You all said that the building was boring. I said that the cladding would pull it through. Trust in SOM guys. Trust.



And interior:



Also, I feel like this is a higher-quality, more detailed render of the front, so I'll post it.

I'm with Illithid Dude, I think it will be a great addition to the civic center. Does it engage pedestrians? No. But what federal buildings do? They're generally more like monuments than interactive features of the pedestrian/urban environment.

[Mojeda101]

I say give it a chance. Here you can see the sheer difference the Courthouse and The Grand Avenue project will do to this city.

[ChelseaFC]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

I'm with Illithid Dude, I think it will be a great addition to the civic center. Does it engage pedestrians? No. But what federal buildings do? They're generally more like monuments than interactive features of the pedestrian/urban environment.

Exactly. If you're looking for a building to engage pedestrians, don't build a federal courthouse. That responsibility belongs to the developers of mixed-use, retail, residential, and restaurant.