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  #6061  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 5:43 PM
downtownslcresident downtownslcresident is offline
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Hey everyone! can i get some updates on road projects around the valley? i know there are some upgrades being done to south bangerter but i havent heard much about that. any other projects going on? hard for me to keep up to speed anymore since i moved to Phoenix.
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  #6062  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 6:18 PM
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On freeways? Bangerter is getting an intersection at redwood, I-15 core North is happening, legacy Parkway North is controversial, 201 is getting repaired, 215 West is getting frontages, I-80 East in parleys is going to get widened soon, Mvc project is moving forward.
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  #6063  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 7:59 PM
downtownslcresident downtownslcresident is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jubguy3 View Post
On freeways? Bangerter is getting an intersection at redwood, I-15 core North is happening, legacy Parkway North is controversial, 201 is getting repaired, 215 West is getting frontages, I-80 East in parleys is going to get widened soon, Mvc project is moving forward.
definitely appreciate this info, but was hoping for a little bit more specifics.

Like, wasnt there already an intersection at bangerter and redwood? are they making it a CFI or an overpass like 7800? Is that what you mean?

Is the core north project from the north end of the original core project to point of the mountain? Or just to timpanogas highway?

What progress has been made with Legacy North? Have they decided on a corridor yet? Has construction started or still being held up by NIMBY and Sierra Club?

Frontage roads on 215? Is that started already? I thought that was just a proposed alternative that never really bloomed into anything...

I havent heard anything before today about I-80 getting widened! That is exciting...although I am wondering how that is going to be possible in some places... are they making any other enhancements? Or just an extra lane? Is it the whole stretch from the mouth of the canyon up to the passing lines just before the summit? Or just other sections of passing lanes?

And what do you mean when you say MVC is moving forward? What sections? Is the north segment through west valley starting? Or are you refering to the Utah county portion? Is there an updated timeline for full build-out yet?
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  #6064  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downtownslcresident View Post
definitely appreciate this info, but was hoping for a little bit more specifics.

Like, wasnt there already an intersection at bangerter and redwood? are they making it a CFI or an overpass like 7800? Is that what you mean?

Is the core north project from the north end of the original core project to point of the mountain? Or just to timpanogas highway?

What progress has been made with Legacy North? Have they decided on a corridor yet? Has construction started or still being held up by NIMBY and Sierra Club?

Frontage roads on 215? Is that started already? I thought that was just a proposed alternative that never really bloomed into anything...

I havent heard anything before today about I-80 getting widened! That is exciting...although I am wondering how that is going to be possible in some places... are they making any other enhancements? Or just an extra lane? Is it the whole stretch from the mouth of the canyon up to the passing lines just before the summit? Or just other sections of passing lanes?

And what do you mean when you say MVC is moving forward? What sections? Is the north segment through west valley starting? Or are you refering to the Utah county portion? Is there an updated timeline for full build-out yet?
I did a search on UDOT's website for upcoming construction on I-80 in parleys summit (I drive this everyday - so I was curious) and it shows that they are in the planning process of adding a truck lane WESTBOUND from Jeremy Ranch to the summit. This makes sense as the eastbound truck lane has been finished for quite some time.
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  #6065  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 9:14 PM
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As for Redwood & Bangerter, they are adding an interchange similar to 7800 south. It is a bit of a mess right now but will be nice when finished.

Also not sure on Mountain View. They completed it from Redwood to 5400 South but haven't seen anything on the north end.
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  #6066  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billbillbillbill View Post
As for Redwood & Bangerter, they are adding an interchange similar to 7800 south. It is a bit of a mess right now but will be nice when finished.

Also not sure on Mountain View. They completed it from Redwood to 5400 South but haven't seen anything on the north end.
Isn't there supposed to be another interchange being added to Bangerter at 600 west?
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  #6067  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 10:15 PM
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Isn't bangerter and 600 W the Freeway?
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  #6068  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 10:17 PM
billbillbillbill billbillbillbill is offline
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Originally Posted by StevenF View Post
Isn't there supposed to be another interchange being added to Bangerter at 600 west?
I remember reading about the controversy of an interchange at 600 west. The landowner/developers wanted the interchange at 600 west and closing off 200 west which would basically eliminate access to the gas stations and other businesses located at the current 200 west intersection. There was a study to look at the impacts. I found this while googling.
http://media.bonnint.net/slc/2491/249133/24913378.pdf

My guess is it is dead for now since they keep developing near 200 west. The McDonalds was built on the south side and now there is a large warehouse park being built right behind it.
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  #6069  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by billbillbillbill View Post
Also not sure on Mountain View. They completed it from Redwood to 5400 South but haven't seen anything on the north end.
The MVC has been funded from 5400 S to 4100 S. Grading, demolition, and utility realignment is on-going currently. After that is anyone's guess!
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  #6070  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billbillbillbill View Post
I remember reading about the controversy of an interchange at 600 west. The landowner/developers wanted the interchange at 600 west and closing off 200 west which would basically eliminate access to the gas stations and other businesses located at the current 200 west intersection. There was a study to look at the impacts. I found this while googling.
http://media.bonnint.net/slc/2491/249133/24913378.pdf

My guess is it is dead for now since they keep developing near 200 west. The McDonalds was built on the south side and now there is a large warehouse park being built right behind it.
Since the state already had funding for the 600 west interchange as it was part of the same funding as the Redwood Road interchange, I am wondering if they have plans for that $$$ for another Bangerter interchange or if it just went into the leaky bucket?
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  #6071  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenF View Post
Since the state already had funding for the 600 west interchange as it was part of the same funding as the Redwood Road interchange, I am wondering if they have plans for that $$$ for another Bangerter interchange or if it just went into the leaky bucket?
I believe 9000 South will be the next target for a freeway interchange on Bangerter

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldcntry View Post
The MVC has been funded from 5400 S to 4100 S. Grading, demolition, and utility realignment is on-going currently. After that is anyone's guess!
A West Jordan House Rep was perusing funding in this upcoming legislation session to fund MVC the rest of the planned distance. From Saratoga Springs to I-80. But yes they already have funding for 5400 to 4100 which is the area which will lose the most houses. If you ever drive past Hunter High School you will see Rocky Mountain Power already preparing to make way for for the road with new power lines being installed.
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  #6072  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2014, 10:53 PM
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God could they please fix 3500 before they do 9000?
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  #6073  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 1:33 AM
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God could they please fix 3500 before they do 9000?
The entire highway needs to be fixed. But any intercession that has had construction on them in the past 5 years, don't expect anything to happen to them. Really Bangerter is just a messed up road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by downtownslcresident View Post
Hey everyone! can i get some updates on road projects around the valley? i know there are some upgrades being done to south bangerter but i havent heard much about that. any other projects going on? hard for me to keep up to speed anymore since i moved to Phoenix.
One other road project UDOT had done is connecting 5600 west from 78th south to 70th south. Before it was a field and now it's open for development. It will open when the Smiths on 5600 and 78th is open which should be soon because they were stocking the shelf's a week ago.

Legacy North is on definite hold FYI. They are sensing major litigation's coming from the Sierra Club and home owners so UDOT is doing some of the studies again. I know one of the land owners out there and lets just say they won't be happy no matter what is chosen.
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  #6074  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2014, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downtownslcresident View Post
definitely appreciate this info, but was hoping for a little bit more specifics.

Like, wasnt there already an intersection at bangerter and redwood? are they making it a CFI or an overpass like 7800? Is that what you mean?
Bangerter and Redwood is a standard (non-CFI) intersection. UDOT is building an overpass and ramps to convert it into a SPUI interchange. It's similar to what they did at 7800 South in West Jordan two years ago.

Quote:
Is the core north project from the north end of the original core project to point of the mountain? Or just to timpanogas highway?
From Draper 12300 South to Timpanogos Highway. The section from Timp. Hwy to Lehi Main Street will likely be widened and rebuilt when the SR-85 "Mountain View Corridor" freeway interchange is built.

Quote:
What progress has been made with Legacy North? Have they decided on a corridor yet? Has construction started or still being held up by NIMBY and Sierra Club?
UDOT had widdled down 30+ alternatives to two. They were ready to make a Record of Decision this past summer, but an advocacy group proposed widening local streets into boulevards and running a few BRT routes. UDOT is taking their proposal very seriously and it currently running modeling to see if it meets traffic demands. If it does, it will get tossed back in for higher level of screening against the two freeway alternatives. As a result, the R.O.D. is delayed until late 2015 or beyond.

Quote:
Frontage roads on 215? Is that started already? I thought that was just a proposed alternative that never really bloomed into anything...
It's still on the WFRC RTP and West Valley wants it. It's more a matter of convincing the Legislature and State Transportation Commission that it's a high-level priority. The first leg of it is already built on the southbound lanes from 3500 South to 3700 South, with expansion plans for the northbound as well. As for now, the frontage road would run from 2700 South to 4100 South.

A previous environmental review explored frontage roads from 4700 South to beyond Redwood, to add an exit at 5400 South. The money dried up, so UDOT has shelved that study for now.

In a future decade, it's possible 215 will have a continuous frontage road system from SR-201 to beyond Redwood.

Quote:
I haven't heard anything before today about I-80 getting widened! That is exciting...although I am wondering how that is going to be possible in some places... are they making any other enhancements? Or just an extra lane? Is it the whole stretch from the mouth of the canyon up to the passing lines just before the summit? Or just other sections of passing lanes?
I haven't seen anything, but that doesn't mean it isn't moving forward.

Quote:
And what do you mean when you say MVC is moving forward? What sections? Is the north segment through west valley starting? Or are you refering to the Utah county portion? Is there an updated timeline for full build-out yet?
The MVC is built (sans most overpasses) from 160th South to 5400 South. Earthwork is mostly finished from 5400 to 4100 South and new power line towers are going up to replace the old ones which the freeway will displace. The road is funded from 5400 to 4100 with construction beginning in 2016. No funding has been identified to push to road to SR-201, although it is a high priority for the legislature. The I-15 CORE bonds should be repaid in about 3-5 more years, so a new bond may be issued to finish the Mountain View Corridor.

Hope that helps! Feel free to ask any further questions! :-D
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  #6075  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2014, 1:54 PM
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One other hold up on the MVC extension from 5400S to 4100S was that they needed to build a new water storage tank and remove the old one.

Cedar City is going to get the old tank. The new tank has only recently been completed.

They also have been stringing new power lines and poles all the way up to the 201 ahead of the MVC.
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  #6076  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2014, 4:50 PM
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I agree that it will be within one to two decades. Tesla is delivering a 90% autonomous car next year. The only reason it won't be 100% autonomous is existing laws. It will drive completely autonomously on private property.
As somebody else stated, it's still too challenging for these cars to navigate city streets.

The key is that it will drive autonomously on "private property", where it doesn't have to worry about lanes, other cars, stoplights, or a whole lot of moving objects in general, and where mitigating factors like weather would present fewer dangers.

Just because a fully autonomous car could potentially be commercially available within 1 to 2 decades doesn't mean we will be living in a world of fully autonomous cars within 1 to 2 decades. Besides getting consumers and governments to accept it, you have to take into account the cost and availability. They will likely remain luxury cars for a long time before costs come down enough for the general population to afford them.

I think you're also underestimating how hard of a sell it would be for a lot of people. Even for somebody like me, who rarely drives and doesn't like driving all that much, am very pro-technology and always open to new advancements in anything, am all for getting more cars off the roads and to reduce pollution, etc, a driverless car is a pretty tough sell at the moment.

There's still a long ways to go.
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  #6077  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2014, 3:15 AM
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I hate to keep returning to this issue, "but I thought it was such a big one it was worth mentioning twice."
Autonomous vehicle technology is so much closer than people realize. So much of the hardware that is needed (sensors, processors, etc.) are already being included in new vehicles. The only thing we are still waiting on is the software, which is currently being developed rather agressively by several sources. And while it is true that this tech will make the car cost more to purchase, it will also reduce the operating costs by using fuel more effeciently. In the same way that there is a rule for electric cars (Cut the price down by about $10,000 to account for all the fuel costs you will save over the vehicle's lifetime), there will also be major savings earned simply by letting the computer drive. Self-driving tech will essentially pay for itself.
And then there is the idea of insurance, which will be the deciding factor for so many people, because insurance rates for self-driving cars will be exponentially lower than people who insist on physically controlling their own vehicle.
And then there is the social aspect. You may think you will prefer to drive yourself, but once you start to share the road with cars who's occupants are visibly engaged in other actvities (sleeping, eating, Facebook, watching sports and TV, posting on SSP, etc) the tempation may just prove to be too much. And based on how many people are already trying to text, eat, and/or talk on their phones, instead of actally driving, I don't think very many people are going to try and 'hold out' anyway. Social norms change so fast these days - and for all these reasons, I think autonomous vehicle technology is going to catch on so much faster than anyone fully realizes yet.

And the reason this is so important is that our plans for our infrastructure are all developed around this idea that nothing will change. Our 2040 plans for massive road expansions still assume that people will all drive their own personal cars, when just today I posted an article on the Autonomous Cars thread on the Transportation page which postulates that steering wheels will be outlawed on public roads in 2040. If we continue to build super-wide highways at the present rate, the chances are we will be squandering millions of dollars on technology that will already be outdated when these roads are finished. I am all for more grade separation and for more diverse routes (such as the MVC) but It makes me sad when I hear all these cries for "MORE LANES! WIDER INTERSECTIONS! MORE PARKING!!!" because not only are all these things extremely harmful to a healthy urban environment, but they are also very soon to be outdated. It would be far better to focus time and money on things that will make a lasting difference, like adding bike lanes and better pedestrian access.

When you have time, I have a thought exercise for all of you to try. Go up to Ogden and climb up to the road bridge that crosses the old railroad yards. Take a moment, as you walk across, to take in the enormous amounts of space those train yards used to fill - and then observe how much space is currently being occupied by any active train tracks. A common misconception is that the train yards died away because people don't use trains as much these days. While that is certainly true for passengers, the reality is that more frieght moves through Ogden by rail now than ever before. The reason that the rail yards are gone is that the rail industry learned to become more efficient through use of computerized schedule generation and system-wide optimization.
That same efficiency and optimization is about to be implemented across our road system, where smart use of vehicles takes priority over massive new infrastructure. Will we one day look out over our massive freeway right-of-ways, which in some sections are literally hundreds of feet wide, and one day see empty, abandoned, weed-choked open space surrounded on either side by perhaps two or three optimized autonomous lanes? If we do, it is our own fault for not thinking ahead.

Last edited by Hatman; Nov 18, 2014 at 3:33 AM.
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  #6078  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2014, 5:03 AM
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Ok, so I looked through the TIP to find that the black line (SLC-U) is funded, while the yellow line (airport - univ) is not. The 2 and 2X work well enough so I don't see the point of this... There is far too infrequent service on north temple and the courthouse transfer makes my commute from Harvard Yale to Capitol hill 15min longer... They need to route it along north temple.
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  #6079  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2014, 12:20 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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I think you are vastly overestimating people's willingness to take this power out of their own hands, and underestimating people's fear of new technologies, especially when it comes to automation. The technology and logistics of it is not the issue, it's the mindset that must change.

Don't get me wrong - a big part of me hopes that you're right. But I just feel as if you are overly optimistic. There's going to be hurdles that must be overcome, mostly in the sphere of public perception, and some of which likely cannot yet be foreseen. It's far too optimistic of an outlook for a technology that is only just getting started.
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  #6080  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2014, 8:37 AM
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^^^
I would just like to add one last thought, and just because you called driving 'this power.' I would like to point out that there is a great difference between driving and mobility. We currently lump these two together and are usually correct because without being able to drive a car, personal mobility is severely lacking. That is the whole reason why autonomous vehicles are such a huge deal, because the separate mobility from driving - and even from ownership. If it is cheaper and faster for you to call a robotic taxi than it is to go to your own car, why would you own a car?
People will not feel like they are giving up anything. Their mobility will not be taken from them - in fact, it will be enhanced. You will be able to go anywhere at any time, and never need to worry about owning a car (or paying for gas, insurance, payments, licensing, oil changes, mechanical tune-ups, ect).
And besides, driving is not going anywhere. Within urban environments it may be outlawed, but there will still be plenty of places, like in the mountains (where driving is actually fun and not a chore), where people will (rightfully) not want to give it up.
This is the fun driving that is not going anywhere:


And this is the driving that will (rightfully) be made illegal:





Okay. One last thing, I promise, and then I'll stop. This time for real. Watch this from CGPGrey and we'll all be on the same page:
Video Link


Right. As promised, I'll shut up now.
_____________________________________________________________

I made it back to the Ogden FrontRunner station and saw pictures of their new short-term bike lockers. Here they are, in all their silver glory:


Here is the sign attached with the rules. It seems like you pre-pay in 5-hour increments, then get refunded for time you did not use. Don't ask me why.


Here is the card swipe (you need a special membership card), powered by the small solar panel directly above it:


Last, they placed this hulk on the conventional bike rack in order to advertize their new lockers. At least I think that's why that's there... (?)


More info here:
http://www.rideuta.com/news/2014/11/biking-to-uta/
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