NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,270 FT | 80 FLOORS | ON HOLD

[MercurySky]

The Foster design with the diamonds needs to start the upwards slope at least 100 to 150 feet higher and it would would look much better next to 1 World Trade Center, if not then I prefer the newer version.

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by HyperPower

Looks looks like one of Foster's interns drew the new iteration up on a Friday afternoon

I'll take the diamonds which would be universally recognized and an instant addition to the Manhattan skyline


Credit - Dbox

this rendering really puts into perspective just how much the midtown skyline has changed in the last 10 years

[Quixote]

^ *orgasm*

[worldtrade2021]

...At the World Trade Center, Larry Silverstein is hoping after 23 years and several iterations that this time is the charm for 2 World Trade Center.

Now a Foster + Partners design, it incorporates terraces and greenery in its 1,350 feet and Silverstein sports a mischievous smile when questioned about tenants.

Is it possible the tenant in question is a hotel chain? With the construction of 5 WTC, the view from the Club Quarters Hotel looking at the WTC site may still not be obscured, since 5 WTC will be built to the east of the Club Quarters Hotel.

At the same time, having more terrace greenery might point to a different direction than the usual tenant focus of the other WTC towers. The renderings from Visual House appeared to indicate this as well. If a hotel is the anchor tenant in Two WTC, it would be advantageous for it to be situated at a location higher than any of the surrounding hotels, whether in Millennium Downtown or Club Quarters Hotel. This would offer even more impressive, wide ranging views of the WTC site than are available now. Perhaps the environmental and wellness focus showcased in the Visual House design leaks will be the focus of such hotels.

Or perhaps it's a restaurant or set of restaurants with a similar emphasis on that theme.

Either way, regular office tenants don't seem as dependable as they used to be with the work from home and hybrid work trend. A Two WTC that focuses more on offering hotels, restaurants and mixed-use office and residential space featuring unconventional office tenants that draw upon the unique environmentalism and sustainability theme Silverstein seems fond of trying might be the way Two WTC is able to get off the ground.

Until there is any sign of dismantling of the graffiti ventilation coverings or presence of heavy construction machinery at the site of Two WTC however, most of this will remain speculation. There's been many false starts and the only dependable sign that construction will be soon underway will be something new visible at the site. The last time there was something new visible at the site of Two WTC was with construction of the outdoor Oculus Beer Garden in 2020, so even then that may not be a sure sign.

As long as this tower retains a office on securing majority traditional 9 to 5 financial, tech and media tenants before construction gets the green light, it's probably going to be difficult for it to get off the ground.

[Zapatan]

^ Agreed, it's nice to know there's some hope but I'm not posting any dancing bananas yet...

The government should help fund this thing, it's cheaper than an aircraft carrier at least.

[Xing Lin]

There is a small clue that the most recent rendering we've seen is of a full-office design rather than mixed-use: the ceiling heights seem to remain consistent throughout the tower portion, while a residential or hotel portion would most likely have lower ceiling heights (e.g. on 175 Park). The rendering is at least 2 years old now though so the design has most likely evolved behind the scenes.

[worldtrade2021]

Originally Posted by Xing Lin

There is a small clue that the most recent rendering we've seen is of a full-office design rather than mixed-use: the ceiling heights seem to remain consistent throughout the tower portion, while a residential or hotel portion would most likely have lower ceiling heights (e.g. on 175 Park). The rendering is at least 2 years old now though so the design has most likely evolved behind the scenes.

That might be true but every single year that passes without any construction on this tower taking pace just makes it more and more unlikely that they will be able to build this skyscraper to consist of mostly office space.

There are articles like this https://www.cbsnews.com/news/working...uture-of-work/ almost routinely these days.

Developers in charge of the Two WTC site are probably going to have make adjustments to increase the amount of space allotted to hotels and restaurants versus office space. Everything employers have tried from work place amenities to other perks aren't enticing enough workers back. Even if they are able to get office anchor tenants, many of the offices probably won't be occupied routinely, making construction of a supertall office tower seen as a net loss.

Imo Larry Silverstein has been way too confident that he can build this tower to be state of the art while teasing occasional upgrades and still somehow retain a mostly office tenant component. It's like he thinks these frequent teases are building interest when after many false starts it really seems to be having the opposite effect. There is the competition from Midtown, there is the overall trend of more residential rather than office space construction in Lower Manhattan and now there is the remote/hybrid work trend. All of this is working against faster construction of Two WTC.

And the new WTC site is still incomplete and largely failed to live up to the Old WTC site, mainly coasting on name recognition and history alone, making other places like Hudson Yards more competitive. There have been so many disappointments too, from the frequently broken lighting at the base of One WTC, to the lack of any automated window washing equipment that was once advertised as soon to be installed, to the frequently fused lights and nifinished looking panels on the southern portion of the domed roof of the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, to very slow roll out of retail stores at the base of 3 WTC.

The PAC and St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox church have helped bring some liveliness and arts and culture back to the site but it doesn't seem like it's enough just yet.

In the mean time they really need to get rid of the graffiti on the ventilator sheds, it's an eyesore that just sends the message to many that the site has been abandoned. It was a sign of something new maybe back in 2018, now it's just a sign of stagnation.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by worldtrade2021

That might be true but every single year that passes without any construction on this tower taking pace just makes it more and more unlikely that they will be able to build this skyscraper to consist of mostly office space.

It absolutely does not. There are office buildings that haven’t even been proposed yet that will be built. This is no different.

[Zapatan]

There is a small clue that the most recent rendering we've seen is of a full-office design rather than mixed-use

This makes the most sense although I think 5WTC will likely be mixed use.

Also, that rendering makes this building look soo good, build it!

[Michagain]

Originally Posted by worldtrade2021

In the mean time they really need to get rid of the graffiti on the ventilator sheds, it's an eyesore that just sends the message to many that the site has been abandoned. It was a sign of something new maybe back in 2018, now it's just a sign of stagnation.

I'm in agreement about doing something with the the tower 2 footprint. It's been a decade (!) since it was finished. One day *something* will be put on that plot of land, and I really hope for something that completes the area a bit. I wonder what could be done with it?

Right now interest rates are prohibitive and back-to-office is a slow churn. Nothing was built when the economy was hot with near-zero interest rates, while Midtown and new commercial centers exploded. I think it's a complicated location offering little on which to base predictions. Either way, lower Manhattan is a historic legacy district in my eyes, if not in others. Anything can happen.

If I had the money, I'd build a couple miles north. On the other hand, I will say that the new WTC neighborhood is very pleasing! I really do hope that these renderings will sell someone on the full-office plan.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Michagain

Right now interest rates are prohibitive and back-to-office is a slow churn. Nothing was built when the economy was hot with near-zero interest rates, while Midtown and new commercial centers exploded. I think it's a complicated location offering little on which to base predictions. Either way, lower Manhattan is a historic legacy district in my eyes, if not in others. Anything can happen.

The only thing we need to look at for the viability of this office tower is the fact the 4 new WTC office towers have been built, and filled. And this when Hudson Yards and Midtown East, among other areas of the city, are building also. This tower just needs to be built. While I would like to see it built, and the site completed, I'm not of the opinion that we need to just put up anything to do so.

[TonyNYC]

Originally Posted by NYguy

The only thing we need to look at for the viability of this office tower is the fact the 4 new WTC office towers have been built, and filled. And this when Hudson Yards and Midtown East, among other areas of the city, are building also. This tower just needs to be built. While I would like to see it built, and the site completed, I'm not of the opinion that we need to just put up anything to do so.

We need Amex to sign on as the anchor tenant.. makes the most sense with them being right across West Street for decades and there has been rumblings.

Anyone know when that lease is up at Brookfield Place?

[The New York Lion]

Originally Posted by TonyNYC

We need Amex to sign on as the anchor tenant.. makes the most sense with them being right across West Street for decades and there has been rumblings.

Anyone know when that lease is up at Brookfield Place?

American Express owns the ground lease at 200 Vesey Street until 2069.

Based on Lois Weiss' previous reporting, I imagine they are going to sell it (probably to Brookfield) and look to anchor a new space, which would ideally be 2 World Trade Center.

I don't see the other options (renovating 200 Vesey or relocating to another tower) as very likely.

Be patient, friends.

[DeSelby]

https://vimeo.com/418313713

User Water_House on the YIMBY Forums found this video from Atchain, a major architectural rendering studio. It appears to show the intermediate Foster design that was previously leaked:

https://newyorkyimby.com/2021/11/mod...-district.html


Based on the logos, it seems like Silverstein was trying to get Deutsche Bank as the tenant, but they moved to Columbus Circle instead back in 2021. This video was uploaded three years ago. This iteration was likely being considered after the BIG design but before Foster’s latest rendition. My guess is the pandemic/WFH spurred Foster & Silverstein to go back to the drawing board and add more outdoor space and amenities to the design.

[rgarri4]

This design matches the leaked model photos from 2021. Glad its evolved from that.

[Michagain]

Originally Posted by NYguy

The only thing we need to look at for the viability of this office tower is the fact the 4 new WTC office towers have been built, and filled. And this when Hudson Yards and Midtown East, among other areas of the city, are building also. This tower just needs to be built. While I would like to see it built, and the site completed, I'm not of the opinion that we need to just put up anything to do so.

Yes, agreed, it just needs to be built. I hope someone takes the risk, too. Nobody wants a lesser thing installed than what's been proposed. "Anything" won't work, we know how picky this location has shown itself to be. We absolutely don't want "just" anything. Previously, I should not have simply said "doing something" as that suggests building a lesser thing or being sloppy. I'd should've said "they must find some way" to build a great thing, as New York is known to do.

AFAIK, towers 1, 3, and 4 are office space. Tower 5 will be residential and is progressing. What mix of space and pricing could tower 2 showcase while remaining impressive? There must be one. Are there more ways to sell it? I'm sure the investors have–and are–considering. And do we have up-to-date numbers on WTC occupancy? I recently read Twitter (or "X", whatever) vacated four floors of tower 4; I wonder if that's indicative of anything or not. According to Collier's, many pre-covid office leases are coming up for expiration/renewal, so there may be some new developments (?) in commercial real estate.

I'm always optimistic for New York, even when the cycle dips. It does bother me that this important foundation has been ready and aging idle for ten years. That is significant. On the other hand, it's a good thing Silverstein & Friends haven't compromised for something less than what should [in our opinion] be built. Also significant. And I'll take the covered pit before installing a squat boxy thing. I think we agree on that. But ten years. Wow. Let the result be worth these many years.

I guess patience, like NY Lion said, helps. That's one thing we all know too well. That said, the the city as a whole is looking absolutely amazing! It will surely evolve; downtown too.

Godspeed, 2 WTC. We beseech thee to manifest as hast thou kindred brethren and restoreth the stubborn glassteel void.

[NYguy]

^ They still have the option for hotel/office, though that's probably not what Silverstein wants.

[Xing Lin]

A few more renderings I made of the leaked Foster + Partners 'bundled tube' design -- second to the original diamond crown, I think this is the most fitting design for the site so far:

Photo by Thomas Koloski

Photo by Domenico Convertini on Flickr

Photo by Musolé on Pixabay

Photo by Marco Verch on Flickr

[mrnyc]

^ yeah, this version would be fine — very nice work as always xing lin — thanks!

[NYguy]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CziyMvZrwQi/?img_index=1

2 World Trade Center, New York. A CGI video from May 2020, depicting one of 2 redesigns by @fosterandpartners for the tower has surfaced. Work by @atchain. While it seems that the second redesign is the developer's plans now, these striking shots provide more insight into the previous version, and Deutsche Bank's logo is widely seen, perhaps they were considering once again to anchor to tower. It would be significantly cheaper to construct compared to the 5 billion dollars redesign, which would make the tower, the most expensive building in history. In 2021 I've built a version of the tower, and tweaked it in 2022 however it needs some small fixes.