Salt Lake MSA Development Thread

[Orlando]

I don't know about you guys, but I love the Gondola solution. That's what they do in Switzerland to get around from town to town, etc. I think it would be super cool. I don't understand why there is opposition to it? Are they concerned about the cost, the environmental impact, what? The gondola would have the most minimal impact on the environment. I mean, what's an "enhanced bus system"? Do you think an enhanced bus system is going to incentivize skiers from getting out of their car or would a gondola?

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/12...ki-resort-utah

[tygr]

A gondola would be

• the lowest environmental impact
• possibly the most economical solution
• the most immune to avalanche closures
• the least disruptive to current canyon traffic
• a destination for sightseers and recreationalists alike

And, IMHO, they are not an eyesore at all. I love the ones in Europe!

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by Orlando

I don't know about you guys, but I love the Gondola solution. That's what they do in Switzerland to get around from town to town, etc. I think it would be super cool. I don't understand why there is opposition to it? Are they concerned about the cost, the environmental impact, what? The gondola would have the most minimal impact on the environment. I mean, what's an "enhanced bus system"? Do you think an enhanced bus system is going to incentivize skiers from getting out of their car or would a gondola?

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/12...ki-resort-utah

I prefer the gondola system, as well. I love the whole idea of it. People I know personally who are against it think that it will disrupt the natural views of the canyon. They don't like the idea of a bunch of huge towers.

[bob rulz]

Gondolas seem fine to me. Rail would still be my preferred solution, but I understand rail would be very susceptible to closures from avalanche risk/heavy snow and gondolas wouldn't. My bigger question is what they do when the winds get really bad.

[tygr]

Originally Posted by Reeder113

I prefer the gondola system, as well. I love the whole idea of it. People I know personally who are against it think that it will disrupt the natural views of the canyon. They don't like the idea of a bunch of huge towers.

There would likely be a maximum of 4–6 towers if it's done like the European ones. People are probably thinking it's more of a ski lift-style gondola. And I hope that's not what they'd build.

[Atlas]

The gondola sounds nice and would definitely be tourist attraction but there have been doubts about the overall capacity and ride length. I've heard people say it'd be a 30-40 minute ride each way. It certainly would have the lowest environmental impact and has the benefit of being unaffected by avalanches though.

A cog rail with avalanche sheds would be better but definitely much more expensive.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Atlas

A cog rail with avalanche sheds would be better but definitely much more expensive.

I just wanted to respond to this section. Stadler Rail submitted information to UDoT regarding a Cog rail line in LCC. They estimated that the line would come in for less than $500 Million, take 20 minutes to reach Alta from the base, and move upwards of 1,500 people per hour. It could also have stops at various trail heads and picnic areas if desired.

This cost is nearly $150 Million less than the gondola. The only concession for UDoT would be to lose 1 lane of vehicle traffic for roughly 1000'. This section already has multiple vehicle lanes so it would be a minor impact to traffic.

Stadler's estimate was based on them building the line themselves and providing the trains.

I do feel that the Cog line is the best option for high capacity and speed for the canyon as well as a future extension to Park City. This would allow the line to be utilized for both tourism within the canyons but also as a commuter link between Park City and SL County. This would increase ridership and help to justify an expansion between Alta and Park City.

A gondola would work for traveling between LCC and BCC. A link could be built between Snowbird and Alta to Brighton/Solitude. This would increase ridership on the Cog line and also reduce traffic in both canyons. A gondola ride between the 2 canyons could take 15 to 20 minutes. This link would also allow for better ski connections as well.

This is a type of project that would set us apart from nearly any ski/mountain destination anywhere in the world with a cost of roughly $1.5 Billion.

[mstar]

I personally would like to see the Gondola system. Regardless of the condition of the roads or even if there is an avalanche, skiers can get in and out of the canyon. Less pollution and crowded roads. Like already mentioned, Europe resorts have done this with a lot of success. Not sure what the opposition is all about.

[Atlas]

Thanks Makid. I'm sold; cog rail is the way to go. Imagine the canyon in the background of this shot to be LCC:


Source

This is the Pike's Peak cog rail in Colorado with its new trainsets, also from Stadler (a company that operates in the US out of SLC).

[RC14]

I could get behind either a gondola or cog railway. The bus solution doesn't sound like it would solve anything.
As others have said, I think the gondola would become a tourist attraction itself.

[Utahn]

I've posted some of the EIS infographs below (as Makid pointed out real costs may be different). I think cog railway is the strongest option for the reasons Makid laid out. I wish it had been given greater consideration. In most European towns like Zermatt, people arrive initially by train before using a gondola.

An important factor to consider is under both options, UDOT is looking at tolls and congestion pricing of between $20-30 on peak days. Given parking costs of $25 per day at canyon resorts, an additional daily toll is enough to drive behavior among many locals.

Gondolaworks (a pro-gondola groups) estimates 3,600 people per hour at peak travel times, that's more than many of the European gondola systems. We do risk moving congestion from the canyon mouth to roads around gondola base (some of this could be mitigated).

The enhanced bus could allow for multiple start points rather than a single location with the gondola. As I understand it now, Under one scenario all gondola riders would need to take a bus from the LCC Park & Ride to the Gondola base station. Choosing the La Caille base station solves this for many, but some people would still need to arrive by bus as the parking structures fill up.

[i-215]

Let's be honest. Utah will pick the bus. It's known. It's cheapest.

Which is a real shame. Because the gondola and cog rail systems would be unique and would make skiers feel more like they are on vacation, rather than on a crappy commute to work (but carrying skis).

[Blah_Amazing]

Project Website: https://www.apollosquareholladay.com/
PH Architects Website: https://www.ph-archs.com/portfolio-i...o-development/

Address: 2250 E. Murray Holladay Road

The Basics: 3 floors. 31-33 (I have seen both listed) high-end luxury condo units. Ground floor retail.

Apollo Square Rendering


Apollo Square Rendering


Apollo Square Rendering


Apollo Square Rendering


Apollo Square - looking south along Murray Holladay Road - work on the basement level parking is progressing


Apollo Square - looking south along Murray Holladay Road - even million dollar condo units apparently aren't enough to get Utah cities to remove ugly billboards.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by i-215

Let's be honest. Utah will pick the bus. It's known. It's cheapest.

Which is a real shame. Because the gondola and cog rail systems would be unique and would make skiers feel more like they are on vacation, rather than on a crappy commute to work (but carrying skis).

I don't understand why the Mayor of Sandy and Save Our Canyons are opposed to the Gondola and Cog Rail. Does anybody know why? The public was opposed to light rail when the vote came out in the late 90's, but somehow UTA still went forward with it and it's been a success.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Orlando

I don't understand why the Mayor of Sandy and Save Our Canyons are opposed to the Gondola and Cog Rail. Does anybody know why? The public was opposed to light rail when the vote came out in the late 90's, but somehow UTA still went forward with it and it's been a success.

I may be wrong but I had heard that there is only opposition to the Gondola. Rail and enhanced bus service are both desired over the gondola.

The Save our Canyons group has pushed the Cog Rail over any other transit and transportation project in the canyons. They worked with various groups and felt that if increased transit was needed, it should be the least impact over all and that was determined to be rail.

This was years ago when talk of Trax into the canyons was discussed. I can't see them being opposed to a Cog Rail line, especially if it would reduce traffic and improve congestion year round.

I do think that the Save Our Canyons group is against the Gondola as it would impact the visual nature of the canyon and would really be for supporting Snowbird and Alta where both the Bus and Rail would support trailheads and Rail could be extended to Park City and a Bus or Rail could go through the tunnel from LCC to BCC and form a canyon loop with minor enhancements.

[Orlando]

I was referring to Light Rail for Salt Lake City, not the canyons. But, thanks for clarifying the other stuff.

[Blah_Amazing]

Basics: 5 floor apartment & condo building with ground floor retail.

Architect's website: https://beecherwalker.com/portfolio-...hills-block-d/

Condo portion of Block D ('The Grandeur Condos') website: https://thegrandeurcondos.com/

Holladay Hills Project Info: https://holladayhills.com/holladay-hills-info

Updated Holladay Hills Site Plan


Holladay Hills Block D Rendering


Holladay Hills Block D Rendering


Holladay Hills Block D Rendering


Block D Under Construction from Murray Holladay 12/17/21


Block D Under Construction from Highland 12/17/21

[ChickenBurgers]

It looks like South Salt Lake is getting another project in the pipeline, this one from dbURBAN. There aren't any solid unit counts yet, but if the developers can get the needed street vacation on what is currently a dead end stub, they're proposing to build a seven story mixed use building. The location is SW corner of West Temple and Utopia Avenue, right across the street from both the Hi-Grade apartments and the massive South City project. The total parcel size is about 1.57, and looking at some of dbURBAN's other current projects (like the CINQ and the RIO), this one will probably be in the 200-250 unit range. The full planning commission report can be read here. Personally, I really like the design and think it'll be a solid addition to the growing urban center that SSL is trying to build up. It's certainly a step up from adding another fast food chain to the area.

[ChickenBurgers]

Speaking of growing areas, there's been a rush of developments in the new Millcreek City Center, as well as some updates on previous ones.

MC33 - 3330 S Highland Drive
Originally slated for more units and retail, the design has shrunk a little to include 119 condos (studio to 3 beds), and ~25,000 sf of retail/office. The original had 30 more units and 13,000 more sf of retail.


The Hudson - 1306 E 3300 S
Located across the street from the new city hall development, this one will have 226 units with ~7,700 sf of retail space, along with 367 parking stalls, and will be developed by Cottonwood Residential.


New Millcreek City Hall - 1324 E 3205 S
The new city hall will be in the same building as Millcreek West, and will share the same parking. The city hall portion is about ~75,000 sf in size, and in addition to holding all of the governmental offices, is looking into possibly having a public market/restaurant space on the ground floor, along with an outdoor climbing wall on the northwest corner of the building.


Millcreek West - 3215 S Richmond Street
In the same building as the city hall, Millcreek West will be developed by Cottonwood Residential and have 215 residential units and multiple restaurant/retail pods on the ground floor. With the shared parking used, there will be 460 parking stalls between the city hall and the residential portion.


Millcreek Flats - 1350 E Miller Avenue
This one from Boyer Development, the mix-used building will include 198 residential units and 5,600 sf of retail.

(viewpoint from the South)


(viewpoint from Miller Avenue)

Main Takeaways
In even just 3 years from now by 2025, this portion of Millcreek will be unrecognizable with thousands of new residents forming a neighborhood on the scale of a second Sugarhouse (albeit a bit smaller). With just the developments mentioned above, there are over 750 planned units in the City Center, and when you include the ones currently under construction and others that are mentioned in the Building Salt Lake Article from four months ago, and the total increases to ~1,500 residential units either under construction or planned. That total doesn't include the 300+ units being built in the Brickyard area with the Stack adding 254 and the affordable Richmond Flats adding another 60.

With all of the residential going in, it only pushes the importance of projects like the Local Link Study and the transit connections that it's going to need sooner rather than later. An S-Line extension along with higher frequency buses on 3300 S and Highland could really make a difference in avoiding a congested mess of cars along the arterials. Add in some quality bike lanes and now you've practically got a certified urban hub built nearly from scratch.

[bob rulz]

Really impressed with what Millcreek has done with their city center. Get a couple more bars in there and better transit and it could be a place I would consider living at.

I remember reading on the Millcreek website that when the city hall project was completed, the owners of the strip mall that the city hall is currently in (southeast corner of 1300 E and 3300 South, where the Dollar Tree is) want to redevelop that parcel as well. So I foresee the development continuing for a while longer still. Not to mention if Brickyard gets redeveloped in that time (it still seems to be doing well business-wise, but it is definitely dated in look and design).