The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

BRT has a lower capacity. It's not suitable for being a central transit trunk for any city larger than 500k.

LRT has a lower capacity than full metro set-ups. BRT, LRT, and full Metro all have advantages and disadvantages.

(Also, since they have tires, is the Montreal Metro technically BRT?)

[eemy]

Originally Posted by Beedok

LRT has a lower capacity than full metro set-ups. BRT, LRT, and full Metro all have advantages and disadvantages.

(Also, since they have tires, is the Montreal Metro technically BRT?)

No, they run on a guideway and actually have rails as well.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

There are definite benefits of BRT though.

The primary one is being cost of initial infrastructure. It is better to have 100km of true BRT than 20 km of LRT because the BRT will service hundreds of more destinations and, potentially, hundreds of thousands more people. Often the high costs of one lone LRT line bleeds money away from the rest of the system.

BRT also has the distinct advantage of getting rid of the dreaded "last mile" which is often the difference between whether people will take transit or not. It gets rid of endless transfers and the need for huge commuter parking lots.

All systems have their good and bad points and so much depends on what is needed, the density levels, ROW available, topography, and of course how much money they have for the initial infrastructure and operations. I agree, there certainly is a point to where so many buses are needed to carry the number of passengers that it greatly slows the system.

It is in the US where I think the vast majority of the new LRT networks have been a failure and have offered little bang for the buck, done little to increase overall ridership, and have bleed the system dry of money for the buses.

Not in Gatineau. The Rapibus is 2 or 3 bus lines running on the half assed BRT ROW. Everyone has to transfer (BRT network mostly serves strip malls and big box stores, not high density residential).

Of course that's an idiot problem, not a BRT problem.

On the other side of the equation, you have Ottawa where we have express, local and Transitway routes running on the BRT, which can create confusion when you have 10-20+ different buses arriving at your downtown bus stop at the same time. With a few hundred people waiting around you and the buses bumper to bumper (i.e. can't see the front ticker displaying the bus number), it sure as hell complicates things.

[Rotax]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Not in Gatineau. The Rapibus is 2 or 3 bus lines running on the half assed BRT ROW. Everyone has to transfer (BRT network mostly serves strip malls and big box stores, not high density residential).

Of course that's an idiot problem, not a BRT problem.

On the other side of the equation, you have Ottawa where we have express, local and Transitway routes running on the BRT, which can create confusion when you have 10-20+ different buses arriving at your downtown bus stop at the same time. With a few hundred people waiting around you and the buses bumper to bumper (i.e. can't see the front ticker displaying the bus number), it sure as hell complicates things.

Well, part of the problem is that the city of Ottawa does not want to see STO buses on its streets. So the STO has to squeeze as much people as possible into the least possible amount of articulated buses.

The only way to achieve such an "optimisation" of the capacity was forcing people to transfer into one of the Rapibus routes to fill articulated buses. Express and other local buses to Ottawa that weren't jam-packed were thus eliminated.

Of course, if the city of Ottawa really wanted to see less cars from Gatineau into their streets, they'd allow more STO buses. Only then you could have express buses running on the Rapibus all the way to downtown Ottawa offering a quick one seat ride OC Transpo style.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

No, they run on a guideway and actually have rails as well.

(Also, since they have tires, is the Montreal Metro technically BRT?)

the rubber wheels are mainly used for faster propulsion and for faster braking.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Rotax

Well, part of the problem is that the city of Ottawa does not want to see STO buses on its streets. So the STO has to squeeze as much people as possible into the least possible amount of articulated buses.

The only way to achieve such an "optimisation" of the capacity was forcing people to transfer into one of the Rapibus routes to fill articulated buses. Express and other local buses to Ottawa that weren't jam-packed were thus eliminated.

Of course, if the city of Ottawa really wanted to see less cars from Gatineau into their streets, they'd allow more STO buses. Only then you could have express buses running on the Rapibus all the way to downtown Ottawa offering a quick one seat ride OC Transpo style.

I would like to see all STO buses drop people at Bayview (via the POW bridge), where they would transfer on to the Trillium and Confederation Lines. That way, the could re-instate the express bus system, or at least part of it.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

the rubber wheels are mainly used for faster propulsion and for faster braking.

And noise reduction. I love how quiet the system is.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

And noise reduction. I love how quiet the system is.

At the time this was a huge difference, but I think in modern systems steel wheels can be competitively quiet.

[MonkeyRonin]

The Scarborough RT's rolling stock is being refurbished and receiving a new livery...that makes it look a lot like the Montreal Metro:



http://www.blogto.com/city/2015/03/this_is_what_the_ttcs_revamped_srt_cars_look_like/

[J.OT13]

Update on Confederation Line:

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Construction Update
Week of March 2



Albert Street Civic Works

Trenching and shoring installation continue, and sanitary sewer pipe installation begins for the construction of the LeBreton Flats Diversion Chamber and other associated sewer works. Lane and multi-use pathway closures are ongoing through summer on Albert Street. For more information on the Cyclist Detour Map: www.ottawa.ca/confederationline.


Reinforcement and waterproofing works progress in the Lyon Station cavern

Lyon Station Cavern

Lyon Station cavern reinforcement and construction continues with pouring of foundation slab and removal of L-wall formwork. Work for final lining is ongoing with tunnel draining and waterproofing. East entrance preliminary works within Place de Ville include hoarding and way finding installation.


Parliament Station tunnel

Parliament Station Cavern

Crews are working on a 24 hour basis in Parliament Station cavern as Chewrocka continues to excavate upper drifts and begins to excavate the central pillar. Station cavern support is also underway and includes tension ties, shotcrete and lattice girder installation.


Crocodile Rouge in Rideau Station cavern drift

Rideau Station Cavern

Crocodile Rouge excavates the Rideau Station cavern as Jawbreaker mines the running tunnel bench. Tunnel reinforcement continues and includes shotcrete, wire mesh and bolt installation, as well as rebar and grouting.


Scotiabank demolition debris removal

Rideau Station East Entrance

Demolition and debris removal continues at the future Rideau Station east entrance.


Curtain wall installation on the Administration and Maintenance building

Belfast Yard Administration and Maintenance Building/Vehicle Storage Shed

Pouring of concrete slabs, plumbing, electrical, drywall and framing continue. Exterior work includes glazing and outer curtain wall installations. On the shed, crews are nearing completion of the sprinkler system and continue roofing.


Works progress at the Belfast Yard connector

Belfast Yard Connector

Works on the connector are ongoing north of the VIA Rail tracks, including excavation, lagging and grouting of rock bolts. Additional formwork is expected to begin in early March. Utility relocation work has started along Tremblay Road at Belfast.


Forming of Variable Messaging Signs footings in Highway 417 median lane

Highway 417 Roadworks

Ongoing work in the median includes backfilling, electrical trenching, light pole bases and conduit installations. Work continues for two new Variable Messaging Signs (VMS) to be located near Vanier Parkway (eastbound lanes) and St. Laurent Boulevard (westbound lanes).


Hurdman Bridge deck formwork continues

Hurdman Bridge (Highway 417 over Rideau River)

Crews continue reconstructing the median span of the bridge. Formwork currently underway is scheduled to be followed by rebar and deck work in the spring.
Intermittent flagging will continue at the Rideau River east and west multi-use pathways through to the spring.


Concrete removal at Vanier Parkway staging area

Vanier Parkway Overpass

Final bridge work will resume in the spring. Crews continue to remove concrete from the staging area, as weather permits.


Upcoming Construction Activities

In the coming weeks, the following construction activities will occur:
• Lyon Station east entrance excavation is anticipated to begin in late winter.
• Parliament Station utilities relocation work is scheduled to occur in late winter.
• Street lights along Scott Street are scheduled for relocation the beginning of March.

Additional construction activities scheduled for the spring include:
• Blair Station and St-Laurent Station utilities work are scheduled to occur in April.
• Hurdman Station substructure and foundation work is scheduled to resume in March.
• The St-Laurent Station temporary ramp to Highway 417 westbound construction will begin in April.
• Paving and final intersection reconfiguration works at Lemieux Street and St. Laurent Boulevard will resume in the spring.
• Final bridge works will occur in spring at the Lees Avenue overpass, Vanier Parkway overpass and Belfast Bridge.
• Trackwork is scheduled to begin in the Belfast Yard Administrative and Maintenance building in the spring.

http://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/construction/construction-update-12/

And update on western expansion. NCC and City have agreed on new route:

Originally Posted by rocketphish

NCC, City agree in principle to bury Western LRT extension

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 6, 2015, Last Updated: March 6, 2015 12:24 PM EST

A National Capital Commission and City of Ottawa working group has reached an agreement in principle that would allow the city’s western light rail transit (WLRT) extension to be fully buried under the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway, the parties announced Friday.

The proposed solution addresses the NCC’s conditions and city’s financial concerns, while advancing the creation of a waterfront linear park, the parties said.

The solution was struck following a 100-day review process, led by a working group consisting of three city councillors, four NCC Board members, the city manager and the NCC’s CEO.

This group began meeting in December 2014, with the goal of finding a mutually satisfactory solution for the western extension of Confederation Line between the Dominion and Cleary stations.

The city and the NCC revealed the solution Friday at a joint news conference.

The NCC has said it supports the city’s western light-rail transit project, but the two sides have remained at odds over the 1.2-kilometre section of the proposed $980-million Richmond Underground line that would cross NCC land along the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway.

The city wants to run the line through a trench, 700 metres of which would be partly covered. But the NCC board declared in November that it would not approve the line unless it allowed unimpeded access to the Ottawa River shoreline and has a “minimal visual impact” on the parkway corridor landscape.

The city says it can’t afford a tunnel along the river, nor is it willing to support surface rail along Richmond Road or the Byron Linear Park.

Officials from both the city and NCC have been tight-lipped about developments on the file since Mayor Jim Watson and former foreign affairs minister John Baird met at the end of November and agreed to stop arguing about the matter publicly.

Baird has since resigned from his position and Nepean-Carleton MP Pierre Poilievre has been named the new minister responsible for the NCC.

[email protected]
twitter.com/mpearson78

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/live-ncc-city-reveal-progress-on-ottawas-lrt-route

Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway (formerly the Ottawa River Parkway) will be realigned to add 38% more green space. This will also allow the City to build an transit tunnel directly underneath the eastbound lanes without any impact on green space, views or access to the river. The tunnel will be roughly the same length as the one currently under construction downtown (2.5 km) and will include 2 stations.


http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documen...nts/stage2_100_proposed_alignment_en.pdf



Follow the link and click on the picture for larger image:

http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/capital-plannin...estern-light-rail-ncc-city-working-group

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

The Scarborough RT's rolling stock is being refurbished and receiving a new livery...that makes it look a lot like the Montreal Metro:



http://www.blogto.com/city/2015/03/this_is_what_the_ttcs_revamped_srt_cars_look_like/

Greatly needed refurbishment. Looks more integrated to the TTC system now.

[TorontoDrew]

They do look better but should have been solid red not blue.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

They do look better but should have been solid red not blue.

I imagine they wanted them blue because the Scarborough RT line is blue on the TTC maps?

[Taeolas]

On the smaller city scale, Fredericton released a budget breakdown.

In it, we see that they are allocating on average 12.67$/month per household for Freddy Transit.

This partly covers (on top of what they get from bus passes and fare boxes):

Resources:
• 46 full time staff, including transit operators and administrative staff
• 32 transit buses, all equipped with bike racks, three paratransit buses and
60 transit shelters
• One Transit Operations Centre

On top of that, adult rides are 2.75$. 10 tickets can be bought for 22.50$
Adult monthly passes are 80$. Student Monthly are 55$.
Senior YEARLY are 50$.

What I'm curious about is how does this compare to similarly sized bus systems and communities (~100k people)?

In the Fredericton thread, someone mentioned Charlottetown having a private bus system and it 'working better' and that it might be a better model to follow. Is that really the case?


From some quick searches, even with this private bus system, Charlottetown still has 2% of its budget devoted to Transit.

Fredericton, using the above flyer PDF, and the 2015 Budget Infographic seems to be spending about 2.8% of its budget on Transit.

This is also comparing 2014 to 2015 numbers. Charlottetown does have cheaper transit use prices, but Freddy was comparable until the past few years.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

On the smaller city scale, Fredericton released a budget breakdown.

In it, we see that they are allocating on average 12.67$/month per household for Freddy Transit.

This partly covers (on top of what they get from bus passes and fare boxes):


On top of that, adult rides are 2.75$. 10 tickets can be bought for 22.50$
Adult monthly passes are 80$. Student Monthly are 55$.
Senior YEARLY are 50$.

What I'm curious about is how does this compare to similarly sized bus systems and communities (~100k people)?

In the Fredericton thread, someone mentioned Charlottetown having a private bus system and it 'working better' and that it might be a better model to follow. Is that really the case?


From some quick searches, even with this private bus system, Charlottetown still has 2% of its budget devoted to Transit.

Fredericton, using the above flyer PDF, and the 2015 Budget Infographic seems to be spending about 2.8% of its budget on Transit.

This is also comparing 2014 to 2015 numbers. Charlottetown does have cheaper transit use prices, but Freddy was comparable until the past few years.

Here's some of the same stats on Kingston transit (population 125K), as of this May's coming service increase:
-Number of buses: 58, increasing to 63 by May
-Service hours citywide: 230,000
-Total annual budget has reached $20M, of which $13M comes from the city
-One trip, cash: $2.75
-One trip, smartcard: $2.29 (must be purchased in quantities of at least 6)
-Monthly pass, valid weekdays only: $62.00
-Monthly pass, valid all days: $72.00

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Here's some of the same stats on Kingston transit (population 125K), as of this May's coming service increase:
-Number of buses: 58, increasing to 63 by May
-Service hours citywide: 230,000
-Total annual budget has reached $20M, of which $13M comes from the city
-One trip, cash: $2.75
-One trip, smartcard: $2.29 (must be purchased in quantities of at least 6)
-Monthly pass, valid weekdays only: $62.00
-Monthly pass, valid all days: $72.00

Nice to see those numbers; but they aren't really comparable to Freddy yet.

By Provincial laws, Transit can't extend beyond the city limits. So Freddy's transit system can only take advantage of the core area basically (Pop ~60k), almost half of Kingston's core size (125k) (All numbers pulled off Wiki). Freddy and Kingston are only compareable with the Metro sizes, since Kingston's metro apparently isn't much bigger than its core, while Freddy's has a lot of people outside its limits. (Biggest being Oromocto and Lincoln, holding about 15k people between them)

[333609543]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

The Scarborough RT's rolling stock is being refurbished and receiving a new livery...that makes it look a lot like the Montreal Metro:



http://www.blogto.com/city/2015/03/this_is_what_the_ttcs_revamped_srt_cars_look_like/

It makes it look somewhat like the subway trains in New York, with the route symbol on the front there.

Comparison:

Source: http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/subway-falls-2013-3/


If the (real) subway trains were refurbished like this, it may help tourists and new residents find their way around. At least in the subway...

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Here's some of the same stats on Kingston transit (population 125K), as of this May's coming service increase:
-Number of buses: 58, increasing to 63 by May
-Service hours citywide: 230,000
-Total annual budget has reached $20M, of which $13M comes from the city
-One trip, cash: $2.75
-One trip, smartcard: $2.29 (must be purchased in quantities of at least 6)
-Monthly pass, valid weekdays only: $62.00
-Monthly pass, valid all days: $72.00

Red Deer, Alberta, population 97,109
-One integrated public transit service route between Red Deer and Red Deer County
- Regional Service to Lacombe, Blackfalds (BOLT)
- 55 full size buses (40 ft.) in the fleet, 2 BOLT Buses
- $12.4 million budget, unclear whether this includes retained fare revenue.
-152 staff
-Approximately 3.7 million passengers trips annually on fixed schedule transit service.
-Approximately 13,500 passengers’ boarding on a typical weekday
-54 contracted shelters.
-Over 346 bench/containment units.
-Monday To Saturday Service 6:15 a.m. - 11:15 p.m.
-Sunday/Holiday Service 8:45 a.m. - 6:45 p.m.
-Monthly Pass - Regional Service Lacombe $90 Blackfalds $70
-Red Deer Local $66

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Red Deer, Alberta, population 97,109
-One integrated public transit service route between Red Deer and Red Deer County
- Regional Service to Lacombe, Blackfalds (BOLT)
- 55 full size buses (40 ft.) in the fleet, 2 BOLT Buses
- $12.4 million budget, unclear whether this includes retained fare revenue.
-152 staff
-Approximately 3.7 million passengers trips annually on fixed schedule transit service.
-Approximately 13,500 passengers’ boarding on a typical weekday
-54 contracted shelters.
-Over 346 bench/containment units.
-Monday To Saturday Service 6:15 a.m. - 11:15 p.m.
-Sunday/Holiday Service 8:45 a.m. - 6:45 p.m.
-Monthly Pass - Regional Service Lacombe $90 Blackfalds $70
-Red Deer Local $66

Now that looks closer to Freddy's situation. Of course it also makes Freddy look worse in a lot of ways.

From the infographics, I think Freddy Transit has 18.8million$ allocated to it, and I don't think that counts the fare box. I'd have to dig to see what their passenger numbers are, but they aren't that high I'm sure. That Red Deer can do so much more with less money is telling. (I wish we could get Sunday service for example)

It might be nice if Freddy could set up a daily service between the city and Oromocto and Gagetown, possibly via the airport, even if it cost more than the regular transit costs.

[1overcosc]

Kingston's passenger numbers in 2014 was 4.1M/year.

Service hours are (roughly)
-6:30AM to 11:30PM Monday-Saturday
-8:00AM to 8:00PM Sunday

Local routes all run every 30 minutes before 7PM Monday-Saturday, and every 60 minutes after 7PM and all day on Sundays. Express routes run every 15 minutes in peak periods and every 30 minutes in all other times. The route network is pretty dense especially in the core so for most trips you have the options of several different bus routes which alternate, meaning there's effectively 15 minute service all day long in most of the city.

A good summary of Kingston Transit is that while the operations are excellent considering how small the city is, the infrastructure is mediocre. Not many stations have shelters, the buses don't have real-time tracking, and the major bus junctions are cheap--for example the downtown bus hub is literally just a series of curbside bus lanes wrapping around a block. This is largely the result of deliberate budget choices. The city has chosen to prioritize adding service hours over infrastructure. Plans for more transit priority measures at intersections keep getting shunted down to the next year in each budget (we were supposed to have 18 by now according to a plan made in 2008, we only have 5), as the capital budget keeps getting raided for operational spending increases.

Budget-wise, we're helped by the fact that this is a low-income city for the most part, with the addition of a large postsecondary student population which provides a large captive ridership base.