CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[alex1]

Originally Posted by emathias

Chicago's CBD, including North Michigan and the areas immediately adjacent to the Loop, has nearly 600,000 jobs already. It varies, but has been on a generally upward trend. If we say it's 550,000, then 150,000 new jobs in the city center would be 27% growth. To grow little over 25% by 2020 (12 years from now) isn't far off the city's longer-term economic growth rate. I think the Central Area can and will add at least close to 150,000 jobs by 2020 unless this downturn lasts more than 2 years (and it might).

very optimistic numbers. Generally speaking, you'd need everything to click perfectly for 150k new jobs to come online by 2020.

also, the point where jobs get dispersed throughout the city is something that I believe needs to occur at some level. The problem I've seen in Chicago is that areas that can support new construction tends to be built out in a suburban like manner and many times is outside the realm of rail transit.

[VivaLFuego]

There is surely plenty of valid criticism about the location and configuration of the west terminal. I hope the city isn't too stubborn and let the apprehension of paying too design it now tank the entire next phase, including the runway construction that is warranted regardless.

[nomarandlee]

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...r-takeoff.html

Daley opens runway, defends O'Hare plan
November 20, 2008 at 1:21 PM

.........After stepping off the plane, Daley expressed hope about working out an agreement with airlines to complete the O'Hare Expansion Project.

The runway ceremony came the same day a Tribune story provided a detailed account of airlines' opposition to key elements of the next phase to redesign O'Hare runways and terminal space.

American Airlines and United Airlines -- O'Hare's two largest carriers -- said the O'Hare plan is flawed, according to statements sent to city and federal authorities that oppose more spending on the project. They believe Chicago's effort to move ahead with the project is "premature and inappropriate" because of the decline in air travel and the airline industry's uncertain future...........

..

[Rail Claimore]

I saw planes come in for landing earlier today on 27R. Seeing three parallel lines of approaching aircraft is a sight to behold, something I've only seen until today at Atlanta.

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

There is surely plenty of valid criticism about the location and configuration of the west terminal. I hope the city isn't too stubborn and let the apprehension of paying too design it now tank the entire next phase, including the runway construction that is warranted regardless.

I wonder how much the west side terminal was to throw a bone to the west burbs or if that even played a factor. I would think logistically it would be easier and cheaper to do the original World Gateway Project that was talked about before the OMP went into effect. Perhaps WGP will be seen as a viable alternative to a new west terminal.

[nomarandlee]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...,5959153.story

O'Hare: Finish the job
November 24, 2008

A Boeing 757 touched down Thursday on Runway 9L-27R at O'Hare International Airport, inaugurating the first new runway at the airport in nearly 40 years.

This was an impressive feat, given the massive legal, political and logistical hurdles the airport expansion project has faced.

But you have to wonder if 9L-27R will be the last runway to open at O'Hare for the next 40 years.

The Tribune reported Thursday that major airlines are balking at the rest of the expansion plans.

The city has asked the Federal Aviation Administration for nearly $200 million in passenger ticket taxes to get going on Phase Two of the O'Hare expansion. The money would pay for design and engineering work for a new southern runway, reconfiguration of existing runways and a terminal at the west end of the airfield.

United and American Airlines, O'Hare's dominant carriers, asked the FAA in June not to approve those funds. The city and the airlines are negotiating the timing and financing of O'Hare's future.

Our firm view is that completion of the O'Hare expansion project is absolutely critical to the economic future of Chicago and Illinois. The FAA should grant the city's request and keep this project on track.

We understand the airlines are in a difficult financial position. The number of passengers flying over the Labor Day weekend dropped 6 percent compared with last year, according to the Air Transport Association, which represents the nation's commercial airlines. The ATA predicts 10 percent fewer passengers will travel over the Thanksgiving holiday compared with last year.

That reflects a deeply troubled economy. But the U.S. and the world will eventually recover. The FAA projects domestic air travel will grow more than 40 percent, to more than 1 billion passengers a year, by 2016.

O'Hare has operated at capacity for years. That means other airlines have not been able to fly there, and airlines have considered expanding operations at other airports. That's an economic risk for Illinois.

O'Hare has to get away from playing catch-up. It needs to prepare for the future, to have adequate capacity to meet demand.

It has to have the capacity to embrace new airline competitors. Despite the slump in air travel, Virgin America wants to get into O'Hare but can't. It has landing rights but hasn't been able to lease gates. United and American have reduced passenger capacity at O'Hare by more than 20 percent since 2000. They have gates to spare, but they control leasing rights to those gates until 2018 and they aren't about to welcome a feisty competitor. Making room for Virgin and other competitive threats at O'Hare won't make United and American happy. It is, however, in the best interests of Chicago and passengers.

The airlines have concerns about cost overruns and the efficiency of expansion plans. Chicago can't afford to be arrogant—it needs to listen. In today's Voice of the People, representatives of United and American say they "remain committed to working with the city to enhance and improve this world-class airport."

That's good to hear. But negotiations can't be allowed to put this project on hold. That will mean higher costs and greater risk to Chicago's economic future.

It took an enormous effort to build Runway 9L-27R. Let's get the rest of the job done.

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[Sonofsoma]

Oh Dear... Sounds like somebody was hitting the egg nog and got chatty with media. :'0


WTF are they fighting for? Chicago has completed aquisision of 620 of the 661 parcels in Bensenville.

Except for a dozen hardcore holdouts, everybody - including the residents of St. Johannes Cemetery - are long gone. The railroad has been relcoated and a new 13,000ft runway is now operating overhead.

They gotta be delutional to think they can successfully fight O'hare. (OMP)
A better plan would be to embrace O'hare and prosper like Rosemont has. Ya think?

When the airfield reconfiguration is completed in few years, the Dept. of Aviation will turn its attention to terminal and ground access issues. A new terminal complex will be built to the west of the existing "horseshoe" with access from a new western perimeter expressway that passes right through Bensenville.

Once the western gate is operational, the Kennedy Expressway (eastern gate) will be straightened west of River Rd. and extended to Elgin in corridor bisecting the airport.

Its sad those in charge of Bensenville can't seem to recognize the Rosemont-style econmic boom the OMP will bring.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,3286121.story

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by Sonofsoma

Once the western gate is operational, the Kennedy Expressway (eastern gate) will be straightened west of River Rd. and extended to Elgin in corridor bisecting the airport.

Huh?

Even if they were to actually tunnel an expy underneath the terminals/taxiways/runways, I doubt there'd be any straightening going on.

[nomarandlee]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6843460.story

New O'Hare runway seeing tons of traffic, and nearby residents not keeping quiet
Unexpected heavy use to bring angry residents to noise panel Friday
By Jon Hilkevitch | Tribune reporter
December 5, 2008

The new "bad weather" runway that opened two weeks ago at O'Hare International Airport has been used almost every day, handling up to 350 flights daily and spreading jet noise to outlying suburban neighborhoods where planes formerly flew high overhead.

Such heavy use of the runway wasn't anticipated by airport officials at this early stage of the O'Hare expansion project.

The noise produced by planes landing on the new runway, the first one at O'Hare in 37 years, will be discussed Friday by angry residents from Park Ridge, Des Plaines and other towns east of O'Hare at a meeting of the O'Hare Noise Compatibility Commission.

When Chicago submitted its final environmental impact statement to the Federal Aviation Administration in 2005, city officials said average daily arrivals on the new north runway would reach about 326 planes a day only when the entire $15 billion O'Hare expansion is completed, FAA spokeswoman Elizabeth Isham Cory said............

rest in link.......

[HowardL]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

I saw planes come in for landing earlier today on 27R. Seeing three parallel lines of approaching aircraft is a sight to behold, something I've only seen until today at Atlanta.

I'm still trying to figure this out. I used to notice the flight path around Montrose and Lake Shore. When they were landing two planes off the Lake, one would visually be around Lawrence-ish, one Irving Park-ish. Now that there's another runway north of there, I'm seeing more planes way south. I'm in Lincoln Park and what I see now are planes either coming in three in a row, with the southern most plane looking to be around Belmont-ish or there is an approach which comes from the southeast and goes at an angle across the city toward the northwest. Are those southernmost planes I'm seeing actually going past O'Hare to the south, then turning around to land from the west. It sort of threw me, because I had never really noticed these formations before.

[Hot Rod]

any news?

[simcityaustin]

O'Hare demolitions delayed again
Appellate Court orders judge to deal further with environmental issues
By Art Barnum | Tribune reporter
January 15, 2009

An injunction prohibiting the demolition of more than 600 Bensenville buildings in the path of a new O'Hare International Airport runway is back in effect after an Illinois Appellate Court ordered a DuPage County judge to deal further with the question of environmental issues raised by the planned demolition.

The 2nd District Appellate Court last week upheld most of DuPage Judge Kenneth Popejoy's ruling that declared the planned demolitions constitutional and legal, but the appeals court remanded the question of the project's environmental impact back for more action..........

Link to full story.

[arenn]

Whatever you might think of the O'Hare plan, the idea that demolishing those homes poses an environmental risk is a sick joke.

[Chicago2020]

watching jesse jackson jr right now on cspan. he's talking about ohare and the new Lincoln Airport plan with some intersesting plans.

[denizen467]

basically:
T1 --> Star Alliance
T2 --> SkyTeam
T3 --> OneWorld


http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,3666859.story

Gate crashers: O'Hare terminal moves expected
Major airlines may relocate because of mergers, partnerships

By Julie Johnsson
9:43 PM CST, February 15, 2009

Major airline tenants at O'Hare International Airport are gearing up for the largest reshuffling of gates in decades, the Tribune has learned.

Passengers of Delta Air Lines Inc. and Continental Airlines would face the greatest dislocation if plans being discussed by carriers and the City of Chicago come to fruition.

Delta is expected to leave its longtime base at the far end of Terminal 3 and move to merger partner Northwest Airlines' gates in the middle domestic terminal, said people familiar with its plans. Delta also is expected to take over four gates that Continental subleases from Northwest at Terminal 2, sources said.

Continental, meanwhile, is in talks to move into Concourse B at United Airlines' home hub.

...

Continental would keep its ticket counter and baggage operations in Terminal 2, Brady added.

...


Continental would be the first major U.S. rival to operate flights from United's Helmut Jahn-designed terminal. Aside from United, the only airlines using the terminal are international carriers like Lufthansa that, like United, belong to the Star Alliance.

Continental plans to join Star in October and is in the process of withdrawing from the SkyTeam alliance, which includes Delta and Air France-KLM.

A person familiar with talks between United and Continental cautions that their plans for O'Hare aren't final. Continental could remain in Terminal 2 by taking over three gates on Concourse F that it subleases to United.

...

[arenn]

Hmm, so will American snag the rest of L concourse?

[mcfinley]

With gates being shuffled around, does anyone think that Virgin Atlantic will finally be able to break into O'hare?

[denizen467]

^ Their obstacle - the reason they aborted (postponed) ORD service recently - is not gates; it's just the current industry/economy turmoil.

[simcityaustin]

^^^ I doon't think that's the case. I think it was a mix of trying to fight for the gates during bad economic times = not making sense. I think they would still be interested if they weren't being strong armed. I think they said the earliest they would be in O'Hare now is 2010.

[BorisMolotov]

Would Southwest ever consider moving to the now empty terminal 2? That would make things a lot more convenient I think.