My, Hasn't It Grown! RSA Battlehouse Tower Update

[pkp]

Originally Posted by MobileAl1

Today I was in Birmingham and as I traveled along I-65 north I was able to view Alabama's three major cities. In my opinion Mobile is more proogressive than both Montgomery and Birmingham. We were 11 milesoutside of Birmingham and 7 miles outside of Montgomery before there was sign of a civilization coming. On the other hand, we were 24 miles outside of Mobile when civilization began to appear.

And residents of Birmingham, what happen to all of the development that you guys spoke of? Mobile and Baldwin counties together are seeing more development than Jefferson and Shelby counties.

Wonderful pictures SouthSky, you catch Mobile from some beautiful views!

Please do not start inflamatory discussions with other cities. There is not question that Birmingham is a much larger city than Mobile. Whether is is better or not is a matter of opinion. Statements like these make us all seem like jackasses. If you comments were actually true, you would be suggesting that we simply sprawl worse than either city.

[pkp]

Man - those are some great pics!

As far as population goes, I wouldn't care if the Mobile metro shrunk. If we lost 250,000 in the metro and put another 100,000 in the exisitng city limits (for a net loss of 150,000), we would have better, denser city with likely great mass transit and a more enjoyable, sustainable urban lifestyle. Some of my least favorite cities are the huge sunbelt cities that not matter how big they get, basically are just sprawl.

[Randy Sandford]

Awesome photos, BamaGrad04!

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OK, sorry to follow that up with this, but Exodus and MobileAl1 need to be educated.

Originally Posted by Exodus

Like I said, not trying to take sides or get dragged into a flame war, but no way is Birmingham "twice" the size of Mobile. I am not saying it isn't bigger for godsakes, but twice as big ???

First of all, comparison of populations within city limits does not give an accurate representation of how large a city really is. The population of the City of Mobile is roughly half that of the City of Atlanta, but do you honestly believe that Mobile is about half the size of Atlanta (Atlanta's MSA population is around 8 to 10 times larger)? Here's a quote from a previous discussion with MobileAl1 on 12/30/04:

Take Jacksonville, FL for example. According to the 2003 estimates, it has a city population of 773,781 and ranks 13th among U.S. cities. According to city population, Jacksonville is larger than San Francisco, Boston, Washington DC, Seattle, Atlanta, and Miami; but no one in their right mind would believe that Jacksonville is bigger than San Francisco, Boston, Washington, Seattle, Atlanta, or Miami because the metro populations of each tell a different story.

One only needs to compare aerial views of each city's CBD to see how big of a size difference there is between each city/metro:

Birmingham aerials courtesy of LSyd

Originally Posted by MobileAl1

Today I was in Birmingham and as I traveled along I-65 north I was able to view Alabama's three major cities. In my opinion Mobile is more proogressive than both Montgomery and Birmingham. We were 11 milesoutside of Birmingham and 7 miles outside of Montgomery before there was sign of a civilization coming. On the other hand, we were 24 miles outside of Mobile when civilization began to appear.

Go ahead and admit it MobileAl1...you are so afraid to speak truthfully about Birmingham because for some idiotic reason you think that saying anything good about Birmingham will reflect negatively on Mobile. How narrowminded of you. You can appreciate what other cities have to offer and still remain a loyal booster of your hometown.

Anyway, this is basically a follow up/rephrasing of what Blazer85 already said to you. You know you've entered the Birmingham MSA as soon as you reach the Calera exit, more than 30 miles south of Downtown Birmingham. From that point on there is signficant development at every exit all the way to Downtown Birmingham and beyond, and from the AL 119 exit in Pelham (15 miles south of Downtown Birmingham), there are continuous signs of development between the exits as well from that point on.

On the other hand, you first realize that you are entering the Mobile MSA when you reach Creola, 17 miles outside of Downtown Mobile--14 miles directly if you draw a straight line (well, surprise, surprise...that's roughly half the distance of Calera from Birmingham...sort of reinforces the Birmingham metro being twice as large idea, eh?)--and development doesn't become continous along the interstate until about 8 miles later when you reach Chickasaw.

"24 miles outside of Mobile"? Apparently, you're thinking that a few gas stations at the AL 287 exit in Baldwin County are signs of "civilization" (LOL). If that is the case, then you'll have to consider the development at the Clanton exits as the first signs of "civilization" when entering the Birmingham metro area. Chilton County is, after all, part of the Birmingham MSA (Baldwin is only part of Mobile's CMSA). Or perhaps you're counting the entire length of I-65 until it ends at I-10. If that is the case, then you're obviously forgetting that the only fair comparison is to follow I-165 into Downtown Mobile because after the I-165 junction, I-65 basically becomes a bypass of Mobile (comparable to I-459 in Birmingham) following an arc with an approximate 6-mile radius from Downtown Mobile all the way to I-10. The only comparable route in the Birmingham MSA would be to follow I-65 to Hoover, and then take I-459 north until it ends in Trussville.

[Brown Duckz]

That means I can get to "Birmingham civilization" in a half hour if I haul ass up I-65.

[pkp]

Man, those B'ham pics make us look bad (because they are so good). A little misleading, because Mobile is quite dense as you travel outside of downtown, but we have a lot of folliage, so anything under three - four stories can't be seen in the picture. Nevertheless, the pictures help support how much larger Birmingham is than Mobile.

I for one think Birmingham is a city with great natural beauty and a good looking skyline. I unfortunatley don't spend as much time there as I used to, but have fond memories of my business trips there every other month.

[Sulley]

'Tis a shame, too, since so many Hilton affiliated properties are opening up downtown

[Blazer85]

Originally Posted by pkp

Man, those B'ham pics make us look bad (because they are so good). A little misleading, because Mobile is quite dense as you travel outside of downtown, but we have a lot of folliage, so anything under three - four stories can't be seen in the picture. Nevertheless, the pictures help support how much larger Birmingham is than Mobile.

I for one think Birmingham is a city with great natural beauty and a good looking skyline. I unfortunatley don't spend as much time there as I used to, but have fond memories of my business trips there every other month.

I agree... same is also true for Birmingham. Looking at those pictures of Birmingham, you can see the dense central area that looks grayish-whitish is mostly free of a lot of vegetation and trees. Where the dense central region turns to green in those aerials is not where "civilization" stops, but merely where the foliage increases. I've always noticed that when flying into downtown that alot of the homes and buildings are shielded by trees giving the impression of a much smaller city. I think that's why many are surprised to learn just how many people live in Birmingham because you dont see alot of that density outside of the dense central region. Same is true in Mobile.

[pkp]

^^
My Diamond Honors membership has been good to me. However, I finally gave in and activated my Starwood Gold card (I guess they can somehow figure out that you travel a lot). I will try to start staying at their hotels from time to time, but there just aren't that many out there - especially in some of the God-awlful places I travel. I mean, there is one in the entire state of Mississippi!

[sahara727]

Originally Posted by BamaGrad04

Anyone know what these are?

those are the bases for six tall flagpoles. you can see them in the tower renderings with flags on them. they look to be about 2-3 stories tall.

[B'ham Bound]

Damn... I never thought I'd see the day where Randy pwned someone like that. Anyway, Mobile looks great in the photos.

[pkp]

^
Eh, not bad for such a small city by most standards. I think we'll be looking pretty darn good with the addition of RSA and the riverfront condos. Good at least for a metro < 600k.

[SouthSky]

Originally Posted by Sulley

holy. That doesn't even look like it's in Alabama.

Is that Mobile? Wow... I feel urban all over now.

[elb401]

I love how people have so much love for their cities. Its great to see the pride. But lets drop the subject now. Who cares who's bigger than the other in population. It really doesn't matter. Alabama needs to help B-ham dominate its region and try to help Mobile dominate the coast. If Alabama could do that....then the state would have it made.

[Musicisright]

Some of the best pics I've seen of RSA BamaGrad! Boo ya! I'm getting a Canon Rebel XT for my birthday this weekend, so get ready for some good photo threads.

[austin356]

Originally Posted by Blazer85

I'm glad to see someone has already tried to clear up the misconception that Mobile's MSA is nearly 600,000 and that Birmingham is 900,000-1,000,000. That's just false. As pointed out, Mobile's MSA is officially right at 400,000. .

now that is just twisting the facts.

Everyone with a right mind that lives in Mobile metro considers Baldwin apart of the metro!!!! I used to live in baldwin county and watched the freakin RSA tower rise. Suburban baldwin county is as apart of mobile as Hoover is apart of Birmingham. I mean my goodness baldwin county is less than ONE MILE FROM DOWNTOWN MOBILE!!! For you (and the census) to consider baldwin as not apart of mobile metro is just dumb.

Ask Anyone, absolutely anyone on the ground in Mobile if they think of Baldwin county as a part of their metro, and they will all say yes.

In ten years Mobile metro (at current growth rate) will have 805,000. Mobile will pick up Jackson county, MS (16 mi from city of mobile limits) which is more involved in Mobile than its metro (biloxi/GP). Mobile county (city and suburban) will have added 20k, so those to together are 565k. Then you have to add Baldwin county which will have 230-250k (conservative estimate because Baldwin is growing at 3.8 % annualized rate). If it is 240k then Mobile metro will have 805k.

Soooo, officially Mobile metro MOST LIKELY WILL have a 100% growth rate over the next ten years. That will surely be the fastest in the nation. Of coarse that is statisically, not what is actually going on, on the ground. The point of that example is to show that the census can be full of crap sometimes. Do you really think it Mobile can possibily grow at a 100% rate over the next ten years??? Sounds stupid, but so is keeping baldwin out of mobile metro.

[Blazer85]

Originally Posted by austin356

now that is just twisting the facts.

Everyone with a right mind that lives in Mobile metro considers Baldwin apart of the metro!!!! I used to live in baldwin county and watched the freakin RSA tower rise. Suburban baldwin county is as apart of mobile as Hoover is apart of Birmingham. I mean my goodness baldwin county is less than ONE MILE FROM DOWNTOWN MOBILE!!! For you (and the census) to consider baldwin as not apart of mobile metro is just dumb.

Ask Anyone, absolutely anyone on the ground in Mobile if they think of Baldwin county as a part of their metro, and they will all say yes.

Same argument can be made that it's dumb that Tuscaloosa County isnt a part of metro Birmingham. Tuscaloosa County touches Jefferson County's western border and yet isnt considered part of our MSA. That's just tough luck. The Census follows certain guidelines and criteria. Baldwin County, for the most part, is self-sufficient with the tourist industry on the south shore. Now I'll grant you many may live on the eastern shore and commute to Mobile County for work, but apparently it's not enough to warrant inclusion in the standard MSA definition.

Ask anyone in Birmingham if they consider Tuscaloosa County as part of our metro area and see what they say. They watch our news, they use our airport, they shop at many of our malls, many use our hospitals, many WORK in Jefferson County. But so what. The Census doesnt recognize that, and nor do they recognize Baldwin County as part of Mobile's MSA. Get over it.

Cant help it if you dont like. Cant twist the facts to say something they dont.

[austin356]

Originally Posted by Blazer85

Same argument can be made that it's dumb that Tuscaloosa County isnt a part of metro Birmingham.

Tuscalosa is its own town, not a conglomerate of suburban Birmingham subdivisions. Not a very good conparison.

A better comparison is taking the FW out of DFW. Of coarse on a much much smaller scale.


This goes back to my post a couple of pages back.... Birmingham obviously feels threatened by a metro half its size (which is quite childishly stupid). You make Mobile seem that much more important by bringing yourself down and comparing your city to Mobile. Its almost a complement. So thanks!!!

[Blazer85]

Originally Posted by austin356

Tuscalosa is its own town, not a conglomerate of suburban Birmingham subdivisions. Not a very good conparison.

A better comparison is taking the FW out of DFW. Of coarse on a much much smaller scale.


This goes back to my post a couple of pages back.... Birmingham obviously feels threatened by a metro half its size (which is quite childishly stupid). You make Mobile seem that much more important by bringing yourself down and comparing your city to Mobile. Its almost a complement. So thanks!!!

Nor is Baldwin County a mass of suburban Mobile subdivisions. When I'm at Gulf Shores or Orange Beach, not one bit of me feels like I'm in Mobile. Now... Daphne or somewhere like that is different. But Loxley, Foley, Gulf Shores, Orange Beach, etc... not a bit like Mobile and I'd venture a guess that VERY few commute to Mobile from that far south in Baldwin County.

We're merely responding to outrageous garbage being spewed by some Mobile folks. It's obvious youre a Mobile-supporter, so clearly you defend it. Fine and good, but dont pretend to be objective then. And certainly dont say it's Birmingham folks that started this "childish" argument. Birmingham is not comparing itself to Mobile... if you look who started this comparison, it was a Mobile person. So thanks!!

[austin356]

Originally Posted by Blazer85

Nor is Baldwin County a mass of suburban Mobile subdivisions. When I'm at Gulf Shores or Orange Beach, not one bit of me feels like I'm in Mobile. Now... Daphne or somewhere like that is different. But Loxley, Foley, Gulf Shores, Orange Beach, etc... not a bit like Mobile and I'd venture a guess that VERY few commute to Mobile from that far south in Baldwin County.

Very few actually live in south baldwin. Look at the population of Orange Beach and GS together. It acounts for a almost insignificant amount.


I am finished with this dumb discussion that goes nowhere. This is a RSA tower thread and it should return to that. I really dont care who takes claim of the sprawl along the coast, it doesnt make the city any more or less significant.

[Blazer85]

Originally Posted by austin356

Very few actually live in south baldwin. look at the population of Orange Beach and GS together. It acounts for a almost insignificant amount.

Well you know... you can take it up with the Census and the government then. I'm not going to argue with you over something that's standard criteria applied to every region in this country. You act as if it's some kind of injustice to the Mobile area... get over it. Those same rules being applied to the Mobile area are the same ones being applied to the Birmingham area and every other area across the nation.