Urban vs Suburban - 2 styles enter, one style leaves!

[geotag277]

Are we evaluating neighbourhoods based on income level now? Wow.

Where is the source of this data that 5/6 of all jobs exist outside the CBD? I would like to see what other conclusions were in that report. Like others, I strongly suspect the jobs inside the CBD and outside are not at all comparable. I suspect outside the CBD is more dominated by McDonalds/franchises, strip malls, small business owners in the retail industry/private practices, and factory/warehousing operations where low priced real estate is essential. Sure there are pockets of office space throughout the city, and I for one think a "live where you work" model makes a lot of sense for distributed employment, but the fact is Calgary is no where near to realizing that kind of model today in 2014. Calgary is probably one of the worst modern offenders for centralized office space I can think of.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Are we evaluating neighbourhoods based on income level now? Wow.

Where is the source of this data that 5/6 of all jobs exist outside the CBD? I would like to see what other conclusions were in that report. Like others, I strongly suspect the jobs inside the CBD and outside are not at all comparable. I suspect outside the CBD is more dominated by McDonalds/franchises, strip malls, small business owners in the retail industry/private practices, and factory/warehousing operations where low priced real estate is essential. Sure there are pockets of office space throughout the city, and I for one think a "live where you work" model makes a lot of sense for distributed employment, but the fact is Calgary is no where near to realizing that kind of model today in 2014. Calgary is probably one of the worst modern offenders for centralized office space I can think of.

Time for you to start reading the thread from post #1.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

You should expect any neighbourhood with a median age around 30 to have among the lowest income in the city.

Most professionals at age 30 should be doing okay.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Time for you to start reading the thread from post #1.

I see, so there is no source, can't say I'm surprised.

[geotag277]

Homicide map showing homicides from 2008:

http://www.cbc.ca/calgary/features/homicide/

Most homicides happen in suburban residential neighbourhoods, pretty far from the core. It's a dangerous place out there in suburbia.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Homicide map showing homicides from 2008:

http://www.cbc.ca/calgary/features/homicide/

Most homicides happen in suburban residential neighbourhoods, pretty far from the core. It's a dangerous place out there in suburbia.

You clearly failed math. You need to normalize the data.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by suburbia

You clearly failed math. You need to normalize the data.

It's urban versus suburban baby!

[fusili]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Are we evaluating neighbourhoods based on income level now? Wow.

Where is the source of this data that 5/6 of all jobs exist outside the CBD? I would like to see what other conclusions were in that report. Like others, I strongly suspect the jobs inside the CBD and outside are not at all comparable. I suspect outside the CBD is more dominated by McDonalds/franchises, strip malls, small business owners in the retail industry/private practices, and factory/warehousing operations where low priced real estate is essential. Sure there are pockets of office space throughout the city, and I for one think a "live where you work" model makes a lot of sense for distributed employment, but the fact is Calgary is no where near to realizing that kind of model today in 2014. Calgary is probably one of the worst modern offenders for centralized office space I can think of.

Calgary has ~60% office space in the downtown. New York is just over, Montreal is ~40, and so are Toronto and Vancouver. Which are the five top cities in North America for transit ridership per capita (all trips, not just commutes)? Those exact same cities.

Calgary is successful as a transit city, and has the level of inner city development because it has a concentrated downtown. It is a damn good thing. Don't mess it up.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by fusili

Calgary has ~60% office space in the downtown. New York is just over, Montreal is ~40, and so are Toronto and Vancouver. Which are the five top cities in North America for transit ridership per capita (all trips, not just commutes)? Those exact same cities.

Calgary is successful as a transit city, and has the level of inner city development because it has a concentrated downtown. It is a damn good thing. Don't mess it up.

Thanks for providing the data, it confirms my suspicions and also shows how successful a centralized office core can be when implemented well. The CTrain is certainly an amazing system.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by fusili

Calgary has ~60% office space in the downtown. New York is just over, Montreal is ~40, and so are Toronto and Vancouver. Which are the five top cities in North America for transit ridership per capita (all trips, not just commutes)? Those exact same cities.

Calgary is successful as a transit city, and has the level of inner city development because it has a concentrated downtown. It is a damn good thing. Don't mess it up.

Agreed that concentrating in one place leads to an increased need for transportation, pushing up transit numbers.

New York City is a different ball game, where it is arguably the urban core for a sprawl like no other.

When you look at a place like Toronto, it actually works because there are a substantial number of development nodes. That's the way to go. We need to think long term with planning decisions, and in the long term, multiple notes are requirements.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by fusili

Calgary has ~60% office space in the downtown.

So the majority of professional (or in older parlance, white collar) jobs are downtown. Thanks for the numbers.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by freeweed

So the majority of professional (or in older parlance, white collar) jobs are downtown. Thanks for the numbers.

Yup. These numbers were from a Colliers report I found for Q12014 or Q42013 (I forget). Calgary and NYC were both 60%+, Chicago was around 55% and Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal were all around 40%. After those places, office concentration drops dramatically. Houston was something like 14%.

I had to do a bit of creative arithmetic, because some jurisdictions are hard to figure out, like San Francisco, or even New York: i.e. do you include downtown New Jersey as suburban office, or just exclude Jersey altogether? (I included it as suburban, as I did for White Plains and even Stanford IIRC)

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by fusili

do you include downtown New Jersey as suburban office, or just exclude Jersey altogether?

I just consider it "the hood".

It's taken me a while to understand New Yorkers' disdain for Jersey. But understand I now do.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by fusili

Yup. These numbers were from a Colliers report I found for Q12014 or Q42013 (I forget). Calgary and NYC were both 60%+, Chicago was around 55% and Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal were all around 40%. After those places, office concentration drops dramatically. Houston was something like 14%.

I had to do a bit of creative arithmetic, because some jurisdictions are hard to figure out, like San Francisco, or even New York: i.e. do you include downtown New Jersey as suburban office, or just exclude Jersey altogether? (I included it as suburban, as I did for White Plains and even Stanford IIRC)

The devil is in the details of such reports though. From a comparison perspective, it is very helpful. Things like post secondary institutions, hospitals, etcetera are not counted.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by suburbia

The devil is in the details of such reports though. From a comparison perspective, it is very helpful. Things like post secondary institutions, hospitals, etcetera are not counted.

Exactly, it is an office market report.

[geotag277]

Suburban neighbour hell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_aMR4GJyrI

At least with a condo board you have some recourse if you have bad neighbours. You can get your neighbour fined and even evicted from the building for harassment and violating condo board rules. If you live in suburbia - good luck. The police won't do anything.

Another win for urban living

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Suburban neighbour hell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_aMR4GJyrI

At least with a condo board you have some recourse if you have bad neighbours. You can get your neighbour fined and even evicted from the building for harassment and violating condo board rules. If you live in suburbia - good luck. The police won't do anything.

Another win for urban living

Don't you just love those townhouse and condo renters?

Pretty big trees there

[RyLucky]

Personally, I think everyone should live in one story buildings, preferably separated by at least 100 m.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Personally, I think everyone should live in one story buildings, preferably separated by at least 100 m.

Yes, anything to avoid spontaneous social contact whenever possible and any experience that involves a different socio-economic group than me.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by MasterG

Yes, anything to avoid spontaneous social contact whenever possible and any experience that involves a different socio-economic group than me.

Remember kids, the lower the average income the worse the neighbourhood