Immigration levels

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

- snip -

It took decades of complacency to slow housing down, but only one decade to rev it back up again. Take your wins where you can.

Land value (and national overdependence on property to generate GDP and personal wealth) is a bitch like that - same reason why a small condo downtown costs more than a big condo in the outer 'burbs - but like climate change and sprawl, we can't turn back time, only fix the damage.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

It took decades of complacency to slow housing down, but only one decade to rev it back up again - take your wins where you can.

Land value's a bitch like that (same reason why a small condo downtown costs more than a big condo in the exurbs)... but like climate change and sprawl, we can't turn back time, only control the damage.

Nothing I just said was about land value.

Construction costs only total to $400-$500 per sqft.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Okay? Inflation, wage increases and supply disruptions are a thing too.

[chowhou]

So imagine, if you possibly can, requiring fewer things to construct.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Congrats. The developers have now saved $20 per square foot, and will pocket the difference because they still charge market rate.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Congrats. The developers have now saved $20 per square foot, and will pocket the difference because they still charge market rate.

The classic fallback nothing-better-to-say argument.

Let's just ignore that more projects become viable.

Let's just ignore that developers have room to pay construction workers more to incentivize construction labour.

Let's just ignore that housing can be built faster.

Let's just ignore that construction workers can move on to other projects faster.

Let's just ignore that the market value of a home with fewer features is lower.

Let's just ignore that $20 per square foot is $30000 for a 1500sqft duplex unit.

Yeah, no, greedy developers will always just pocket the difference because no policy can ever be effective. Ridiculous.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

- snip -

Let's ignore that nothing will happen except value-engineering houses to be crappier, more wasteful to the province and less safe for the residents, as has been the case for the last few decades of cutting corners and pointing fingers at the building code saying "nobody spelled out that I couldn't."

You want more homes? Picket City Hall to start approving faster, and picket Victoria to grow the construction industry. Bills 35, 44, 46 & 47 - the province has already increased potential supply via deregulation as it is.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Let's ignore that nothing will happen except value-engineering houses to be crappier, more wasteful to the province and less safe for the residents, as has been the case for the last few decades of cutting corners and pointing fingers at the building code saying "nobody spelled out that I couldn't."

You want more homes? Picket City Hall to start approving faster, and picket Victoria to grow the construction industry. Bills 35, 44, 46 & 47 - the province has already increased potential supply via deregulation as it is.

You finally convinced me, but they definitely need to reverse the multiplex and TOD development legislation too ASAP. Multifamily homes, especially towers, are much too unsafe. Return us to SFHs only when everyone had an airgap setback between houses for fire safety. Regulate them away please Mr. Government! Nothing bad will happen, since developers will just eat the difference!

[Migrant_Coconut]

Either more supply helps, or it doesn't. You've entirely failed to convince anybody that returning to outdated and obsolete building codes will increase it.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Either more supply helps, or it doesn't. You've entirely failed to convince anybody that returning to an outdated building code will increase it.

Supply would be nice, but there's nothing we can do to incentivize it. It's just doomed, you're right! Anything we do will just go straight into the pockets of developers. There's no point fixing permitting or zoning or construction regulations or anything, unless we want to stuff the pockets of fat cat developers.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Feel free to name a specific fix, like with the stairs, and we can talk about it. I'd prefer a city with safer, cleaner and more efficient/comfortable new builds - not ones just as shit as the old ones.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Feel free to name a specific fix, like with the stairs, and we can talk about it. I'd prefer a city with safer new builds - not ones as crap as the old ones.

Single stair egresses, if approved, will just make our homes more dangerous and line the pockets of developers. I can't believe I ever thought it was a good idea.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Ten floors or higher, with 5+ apartments all exiting at the same time? Definitely need two - glad we agree.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Seven floors or higher, with 5+ apartments all exiting at the same time? Definitely need two - glad we agree.

No, the current status quo must be preserved. Above two stories we must preserve multiple staircase egress. We know it works. We know it's safer than single staircase egress. Anything less borders on criminal negligence. Why are you trying to cheap out on people's safety?

I'm personally against multifloor buildings anyway. After all, a fire could block all the egress points, even with multiple staircases. Human lives depend on being able to evacuate out the nearest window. Ban multifloor buildings, developers will just eat the difference.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The "current status quo" is one set of stairs for a single-family home, two for multi-family lowrises, and at least two for midrises and highrises; we'll see how deregulating lowrises goes. Come back when you stop seeing the world in black and white and "with me or against me."

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The "current status quo" is one set of stairs for a single-family home, two for multi-family lowrises, and at least two for midrises and highrises; we'll see how deregulating lowrises goes. Come back when you stop seeing the world in black and white and "with me or against me."

Come back when you're able to stop pearl clutching and accept that deregulation isn't a scary evil right wing neoliberal boogeyman.

It baffles me that you're still afraid of the BC single staircase egress change when it just barely touches the minimum of what the rest of the world allows, safely.

But of course, it's a useless change anyway because the developers are just going to charge market rate regardless.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Come back when you're able to stop pearl clutching and accept that deregulation isn't a scary evil right wing neoliberal boogeyman.

If you think I'm making a strawman, stop adding straw to it. Aside from the stairs argument, your only actual fact provided so far is the cost of building a prefab in 2024 - everything else is neolib talking points.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

everything else is neolib talking points.

There we go. And it wasn't a prefab, it was the BC standardized multiplex designs. No prefabs there! How can you run a prefab business when the building code gets stricter every 4 years?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Indeed, there we go.

Building codes have gotten stricter all over Canada... somehow, developers still want to build here in Vancouver.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Indeed, there we go.

Building codes have gotten stricter all over Canada... somehow, developers still want to build here in Vancouver.

And none of them are building prefab buildings? Hello! Focus!