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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2024, 8:16 PM
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Question is, how much say do they have?

If they just delay the project but don't have the power to cancel / downsize it that's alright I guess as long as it can get built.
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2024, 8:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Question is, how much say do they have?

If they just delay the project but don't have the power to cancel / downsize it that's alright I guess as long as it can get built.
If they make a big enough stink it could influence their council member
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  #43  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2024, 12:08 AM
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these richy rich retiree whiners just like to complain or don't want their views blocked.

boo hoo.

still, it doesnt have to be so eggs in one basket tall.

they could build a smaller tower and build up the low rise sections of this already questionable/dystopian highrise barbican development.

that would throw a lot more shade around and block a lot more people's views, so they better be careful what they wish for.
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  #44  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2024, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
still, it doesnt have to be so eggs in one basket tall.

they could build a smaller tower and build up the low rise sections of this already questionable/dystopian highrise barbican development.

that would throw a lot more shade around and block a lot more people's views, so they better be careful what they wish for.

They should be allowed to build what they are allowed to build. It's New York Friggin City. If they are that adverse to tall buildings, they shouldn't be living anywhere near to where they are. I have no sympathy nor tolerance for such selfishness. No more appeasement to whiners, who btw would still be whining if this proposal were at half its height. Look at what's going on at 250 Water Street.
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  #45  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2024, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BK1985 View Post
If they make a big enough stink it could influence their council member
After what happened at 250 Water Street I'm a bit worried.

Sad this is happening in NYC of all places.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2024, 2:13 PM
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https://tribecacitizen.com/2024/12/0...endence-plaza/

Update: The tower planned for Independence Plaza


December 5, 2024


Quote:
After a flurry of announcements, things got kind of quiet regarding the proposed tower for Independence Plaza. You can see the full details in this post here, but in short: the two owners of Independence Plaza, Vornado Realty Trust and Stellar Management, intend to build a 940-foot tower on their complex at Greenwich and Jay, the southern half of IP called 3C. (There will be a community meeting next week; stay tuned on that.)

The developers do not have to seek a zoning change — building there is as-of-right — but they do have to go through an 18-month review process that includes a environmental impact study, which requires community input. Last year at this time, they intended to start that clock this summer, but that clearly did not happen. Their press rep told me plans are currently on hold due to the mayor’s City of Yes policies, among other things.

“As I’m sure you know, since Stellar presented some options for additional development at Independence Plaza in December, there have been significant changes to city and state housing policy,” he said. “The Stellar team is assessing how these changes might affect its options.”







https://tribecacitizen.com/2024/12/0...greenwich-jay/

New organization to hold meeting on proposed tower for Greenwich & Jay


December 5, 2024


Quote:
The group that formed in reaction to the proposed additional tower for Independence Plaza now has a name — Community First Development Coalition — and a plan to incorporate as non-profit. On Tuesday, Dec. 10, 7p, they will hold a meeting at BMCC to introduce the organization, allow attendees to hear from representatives of the board and Councilman Chris Marte, and share upcoming plans.

The group held its first meeting in March,

The coalition’s stated mission is to advocate for “thoughtful development that respects the neighborhood’s scale, historical integrity, and environment.” They will also focus on increasing permanently affordable housing units.
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2024, 5:36 PM
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https://tribecacitizen.com/2024/12/1...ge-1/#comments


More efforts to fight the tower for Greenwich & Jay


December 11, 2024










Quote:
Community First Development Coalition, the group that has organized to fight the tower planned for Independence Plaza at Greenwich and Jay, presented the broad outlines of a plan last night, and showed some renderings that give more shape to the development.

You can see a full outline here on the plan, but in short, the owners of Independence Plaza, Vornado Realty Trust and Stellar Management, have floated the idea with the city to build a 940-foot tower on what is an underdeveloped site on their property — a tower that was never built. The plans would demolish the existing townhouses and retail at that location (shown in red in the drawing below), and replace them with new commercial buildings along the street wall as well as the residential tower (show in yellow).
Quote:
The group’s primary concern is to fight the tower, but their more long-term issue is to rezone the area of Tribeca that allows for towers of any height — shown below in purple on the zoning map. That area is zoned as C6-4, which the city describes as areas “typically mapped within the city’s major business districts,” and with a floor area ratio among the highest in the city: 10.0 or 15.0. There are no height limits in these zones.

“This is not just about one tower,” said Richard Corman, a member of the organization’s board. “It’s the beginning of a change for the whole neighborhood. This is a precedent.”

The three options they are exploring now to fight the tower are litigation, policy changes and and expansion of the historic district — which in this case would just protect the row of Federal houses on Harrison. (Those are individual landmarks already, but they are outside the Tribeca West Historic District.)

And the sites they have identified for future huge development are:

-New York State Insurance Fund site on Church and Duane (I always thought this building should be landmarked! It is my favorite.)

-40 Worth Street (the commercial building with Arcade Bakery, which is, as far as I know, not for sale)

-PS 234 site (they gave an example of a school on 57th Street that was built into a tower)

-BMCC site from Chambers to Harrison (there have been discussions in the past — in 2011 or so — of Related buying this site and moving the college to Midtown)
Quote:
Board member Eric Anderson, who is working on the zoning issues, said the group is exploring more long-term zoning changes that would incorporate height limits, even if the area is rezoned for increased density. The idea, he said, is to avoid a Billionaires Row that Central Park South now has.

Councilman Chris Marte said the city has not heard from the applicant — Vornado and Stellar — since spring, when they first presented these plans. In the meantime, his office is trying to determine if indeed they can develop the site as of right, or if they have to go through the city’s land use process, which requires a vote from the City Council.

“We understand the need for housing and development, but the character of the neighborhood matters,” said Richard Corman. “We will be dealing with one tower after another and then it will be too late.”




https://www.ebroadsheet.com/egregiou...poor-planning/

’Egregious Example of Poor Planning’





Quote:
CFDC first coalesced in response to a developer’s plan announced in November 2023 to erect a 90-story residential tower amid a courtyard within the Independence Plaza complex, on Greenwich Street. While this plan remains a central concern, its scope has grown over the last year to include all of Tribeca. This was driven, in part, by the realization that current zoning would allow as many as ten such “supertalls” to be erected throughout the community.

“Our mission,” says CFDC board member Emily Moyer, “is to create an inclusive Tribeca that honors its past, embraces socioeconomic diversity, and thrives as a community for generations to come.” She adds that the coalition aims to provide information and resources “to preserve and enhance Tribeca’s character. We are advocating for thoughtful development that respects the neighborhood’s scale, historical integrity, and environment, while also fostering an increase in the amount of permanently affordable housing available.”

Eric Anderson, also a CFDC board member, notes, “our first priority is the Independence Plaza tower, but our four pillars are permanent affordable housing, the scale and architectural integrity of the neighborhood, preserving its environment, and enhancing quality of life.”

“We are not against development,” offers a third CFDC board member, Renee DeSantis. “What we’re trying to do is build consensus and educate community on the complexities on zoning. We want to lay out options. Every one of these planned developments raises questions about related issues, such as infrastructure – meaning the capacity to handle sewage, garbage, and package delivery.”
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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2024, 11:29 PM
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These kind of NIMBYs are so loathsome. To get up in the morning and dedicate your free time to fight a tall building a stones throw from already existing tall buildings in Manhattan of all places cannot be fully understood by clinical psychologists.
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2024, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
These kind of NIMBYs are so loathsome. To get up in the morning and dedicate your free time to fight a tall building a stones throw from already existing tall buildings in Manhattan of all places cannot be fully understood by clinical psychologists.
I wish they could just be ignored completely.

I suppose this building will never happen since these people will probably never give up.
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2024, 2:29 AM
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They won't stop this building, especially now that City of Yes has been approved. But what they really want to do is forbid future towers from going up in the area.


Quote:
The group’s primary concern is to fight the tower, but their more long-term issue is to rezone the area of Tribeca that allows for towers of any height — shown below in purple on the zoning map. That area is zoned as C6-4, which the city describes as areas “typically mapped within the city’s major business districts,” and with a floor area ratio among the highest in the city: 10.0 or 15.0. There are no height limits in these zones.


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  #51  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 2:23 AM
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So dramatic....


https://www.tribecatrib.com/content/...-tower-tribeca

New Group Prepares for Battle Against Proposed 940-Foot Tower in Tribeca









By CARL GLASSMAN
Dec. 16, 2024


Quote:
Enlisting the advice of experts in engineering, zoning, flood resiliency, and historic preservation, the Community First Development Coalition is building an arsenal of knowledge to counter a project they fear will be a devastating blow to the surrounding neighborhood.

“So, what are our options?” Richard Corman, a leader of the organization, told a gathering of residents at a public meeting held on Dec. 10 at Borough of Manhattan Community College. “Frankly, we're exploring many, and we’re just at the beginning.”

“Of course,” he added, “in the end, there may be litigation.”
Of course there will be.


Quote:
Concerns run the gamut over a project of that size—well over twice the height of the adjacent 39-story IPN towers. Construction, opponents say, would be an assault on neighborhood quality of life, especially for residents of the IPN tower next door at 310 Greenwich Street, and could destabilize the historic Federal-era townhouses just north of the site. Once constructed, the building’s impact on light and air for surrounding buildings as well as the wind effects on Greenwich Street are among other worries.

In March, a spokesman for the developers, IPN owners Stellar Management and Vornado Real Estate Trust, said the project “will go through the full CEQR [City Environmental Quality Review] before construction begins, including preparing an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) that will outline the steps needed to minimize the impact of the new construction on existing tenants and the surrounding community, including the Federal-era townhouses.”
Quote:
The group says their first step is to determine whether Vornado and Stellar must go through the city’s lengthy land use review process in which City Councilman Christopher Marte, an opponent, could potentially derail a project of that size. (The developers have said that because no zoning change or new waivers are required for the site, they do not need to go through a land use review.)

“Right now we're going through the documents,” said Coalition trustee Meredith James. “It's a pretty slow process because this site was created in 1969. So it’s all paper documents and we’re trying to see if they do have a right [to skip a land use review] or not.”

OK, but we're planning to sue nontheless. Got it.


Quote:
There are also questions over how the recently passed changes to city-wide zoning, known as City of Yes, could impact the project. According to Marte, who voted against the Adams administration initiative, developers have the option of building a much wider structure, but one that matches the height of the IPN tower. (If the building included a percentage of below-market-rate apartments, it could be taller, he said.)
Go on.


Quote:
In an email statement to the Trib, Jake McNichol, a spokesman for the developers, said that in anticipation of the changes to the city’s housing policy, Vornado and Stellar have “paused work on the IP project” while City of Yes was going through the Uniform Land Use Review Process (ULURP).

“Now that it has passed, Stellar and [Vornado] are assessing how the changes to the zoning code affect their options for development at IP. We will share more information once we have a complete understanding of how City of Yes affects what is possible at the site.”

While the Community First Development Coalition says its main focus is defeating the possible 940-foot tower, it also is looking at potential development around Tribeca where there are no height limits under current zoning, “to make sure the future of Tribeca is protected and is the kind of future, is the kind of community and neighborhood that we all moved into and that we love and that we want to protect and preserve,” Corman said.
Quote:
Down the road, the group says, that could mean a push for zoning that would bring down the height of potential “supertall” buildings on sites such as Borough of Manhattan Community College and PS 234. (“The School Construction Authority has done joint ventures with developers…putting the school into the base and putting the residential tower above,” said Eric Anderson, a real estate consultant and Coalition member.) But with community backing, the group said, it could also advocate for “up zoning” on some sites, which would mandate permanently affordable units in future projects, another objective of the organization.

“The long term is if we don’t start on that now, then we’ll just be dealing, one after another, as [new tower proposals] come along and every time we'll be too late,” Corman said. “So we need to plan for the long term. And I’m really happy to say that our coalition is ready for that.”

In the meantime, Marte said, the community coming together around the proposed 940-foot tower, “is creating a pressure that the developers don’t want to face, especially when there’s potential litigation, especially when they know a community is organized, and is educated in fighting back.”
I'm sure the developers are shaking at the thought of a lawsuit.
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 2:05 PM
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 5:45 PM
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These people complaining about building heights while living next to some of America's tallest buildings are like the people that complain about landfills after moving next to one.
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 6:19 PM
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this is the right site and right time for this tower. if anything it should be taller
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by giantSwan View Post
this is the right site and right time for this tower. if anything it should be taller
This tower will pop in the skyline especially when viewed from New Jersey it's almost a thousand footer but it will appear to be much larger it will certainly add to the silhouette as well downtown. It looks like a little mini world trade center
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 8:34 PM
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These people complaining about building heights while living next to some of America's tallest buildings are like the people that complain about landfills after moving next to one.
Or think there's way too much sex in porn.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2024, 11:18 PM
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They won't stop this building, especially now that City of Yes has been approved. But what they really want to do is forbid future towers from going up in the area.
I hope not but it seems they'll just keep suing + protesting until the developers give up.

If the city has approved it then why are they even bothering?
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2024, 2:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I hope not but it seems they'll just keep suing + protesting until the developers give up.

If the city has approved it then why are they even bothering?
Read the article again, carefully.
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2025, 12:43 PM
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https://tribecacitizen.com/2025/03/2...ve-an-address/

Does the tower planned for IPN have an address?


March 20, 2025


Quote:
The answer to the question above, from the press folks for Stellar Management: also none. “We’re still so early in the process that we don’t even have an address for the new tower.”

Below is a cut-and-paste of this post from December, with this simple update from last week: No updates on the project at this time.

You can see the full details in this post here, but in short: the two owners of Independence Plaza, Vornado Realty Trust and Stellar Management, intend to build a 940-foot tower on their complex at Greenwich and Jay, the southern half of IP called 3C.

The developers do not have to seek a zoning change — building there is as-of-right — but they do have to go through an 18-month review process that includes a environmental impact study, which requires community input. They originally intended to start that clock in summer 2024, but that clearly did not happen. Their press rep told me plans are currently on hold due to the mayor’s City of Yes policies, among other things.
Quote:
“As I’m sure you know, since Stellar presented some options for additional development at Independence Plaza in December, there have been significant changes to city and state housing policy,” he said last year. “The Stellar team is assessing how these changes might affect its options.”
Quote:
I turned to James Bogardus, who rewarded me with this answer — albeit with a caveat: “I would anticipate two categories of possible opportunities here. That said, I have not considered this question very deeply.”

From James, on this specific question: How would the City of Yes affect the proposal for the new 900-foot tower at Independence Plaza?

1. Add more (free market) FAR to an as-of-right project.

-Campus Infill – Use relaxed restrictions on adding housing buildings in open space on the same lot, whether height limits, lot coverage rules, shorter minimum distances required between buildings on the same lot.

-Small and Shared Housing – Potentially increase the number of units by reducing the minimum size required of each dwelling unit. May have more impact depending on whether existing minimum size rules in Tribeca are more strict than elsewhere.

-Reduced Parking Mandates – Build more units per parking space required by zoning.

-Convert Non-Residential Buildings to Housing – What can they do with the former PS 150 space at IPN? Also, do they use that to add/shift required or elective affordable housing out of the proposed high-rise tower and into less attractive / less costly low-rise housing? (See below.)

-Easier Acquisition of Air Rights in nearby Tribeca Historic District – What new opportunities would be created to receive unused air rights from nearby landmark district buildings, where existing zoning and landmarks rules typically inhibited / disincentivized their use?

2. Reduce or eliminate the cost of quelling local political opposition that could stall development.

Use Universal Affordability Preference to add 20% more housing than otherwise allowed, provided it is more affordable housing than even Mandatory Inclusionary Housing [the existing zoning policy that requires developers to include a certain percentage of affordable housing units within new residential developments]. Pay for it using 485x [a New York State tax abatement program that encourages the construction of affordable housing] or other tax incentives. Make it difficult for CM Marte to organize opposition, at not much loss of profit.

So…clearly more TK.
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2025, 6:21 PM
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the tower will get a height chop and everyone will walk away with their version of a win, but grumbling. bet.
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