Austin | 318 Colorado | ~450 Feet | 40 Floors | Proposed

[migol24]

If what is already there is being preserved without affecting its function then that's all that's really being asked. It should come with a stiff stipulation that people who move there cannot in any shape or form demand that they close earlier than 2 am. Honestly, this is how I feel about every project in downtown. One bar on 6th had to close down when the Westin complained about the noise. This should be staunchly and stingily fought. No tower should in any shape or form negatively affect what is already there.

[chinchaaa]

I still don’t like this

[lonewolf]

glad to see my posts calling for separation of nightlife oriented bars as "cornerstones" of the queer community were removed. God knows what damage that message could have caused.

"An estimated 20 to 30% of the LGBTQ community abuses substances, compared to about 9% the population as a whole."

source - https://www.addictioncenter.com/addiction/lgbtq/

I could list a bunch of other sad statistics dealing with substance abuse/reliance in the queer community but i'm sure y'all are capable of doing your own legwork (well, some of y'all)

The queer community was reduced to nightlife clubs and bars as they were not accepted in many parts of society. This was not healthy. They were not better off because of this. They suffered because of this and are still suffering. We are in decade 2 of mass acceptance. It's time to stop thinking gay culture=bars (sorry, i know how close minded and regressive this must sound to y'all)

this forum is turning into such a joke it's unreal. Y'all turned into a pack of rabid jackals at the thought that bars are not cornerstones of queer community. BARS ARE NOT A HEALTHY CORNERSTONE OF ANY COMMUNITY. PERIOD. We've all been to them, they are degenerate and foster an environment of abuse.

Remember when Austin was known for sixth street? Are you glad we are now known for other things? Like tech hub, EV capital of world, "Boomtown, USA" etc etc. And yes, I am 100% for the redevelopment of sixth street.

Why can't we have perhaps queer oriented cafes, museums, restaurants, in lieu of nightlife oriented gay bars in our city center? you know, literally anything healthy.

So disappointed with this forum. There are some legit sadists on here. Thank you to the mods for removing most of the insulting language directed at me.

I made three predictions
1- at least one bar would stay in new development (correct)
2 - the bars displaced will pop up in a cluster somewhere else (will be proven correct)
3 - the redevelopment will pay homage to the gay history of 4th street (correct)

This is maybe the third time I've said this but I cannot believe what a joke this forum has become. Perhaps a thread is needed to discuss how to pivot our own community on here towards some healthier conversations.

[We vs us]

I haven't agreed with much you've said the last few days but have to agree that I've been surprised by the amount of aggro we all seem to have about this one particular building.

IMO the lesson is, crazy Austin growth tests everyone. Even skyscraper fanatics have their limits.

[lonewolf]

There's a lot going on nationally with inflation and internationally with russia and I get some people can be on edge. I haven't even been on since friday I think since I was getting absolutely cooked and namecalled for my wrongthink. The sad part is the sane people just sit this stuff out on the sidelines since there is just about zero upside to trying to argue with the mob on here. But this needs to change or people are just going to bail and people drawn to conflict/being a part of a mob are going to replace them.

[We vs us]

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but you pretty much went right at the soft heart of the issue with hammer and tongs. It's been pretty well established that that part of 4th is 1) important to the LGBTQ community at large and 2) important to the folks who are on this forum. Jumping in to question why that might be, especially if you're not part of that community . . . maybe not the best choice to engender civil discussion. Maybe just accept the obvious, that people feel strongly (legitimately) about it and choose another hill to die on.

[ahealy]

Originally Posted by We vs us

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but you pretty much went right at the soft heart of the issue with hammer and tongs. It's been pretty well established that that part of 4th is 1) important to the LGBTQ community at large and 2) important to the folks who are on this forum. Jumping in to question why that might be, especially if you're not part of that community . . . maybe not the best choice to engender civil discussion. Maybe just accept the obvious, that people feel strongly (legitimately) about it and choose another hill to die on.

Yeah, I could respond with a lot of emotion on why that post shit the bed...but I find that just fuels the fire AND singles people out into their own rabbit hole even more.

I'd like to think we're all good at heart here and would get along famously in person, instead of in front of a keyboard.

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by We vs us

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but you pretty much went right at the soft heart of the issue with hammer and tongs. It's been pretty well established that that part of 4th is 1) important to the LGBTQ community at large and 2) important to the folks who are on this forum. Jumping in to question why that might be, especially if you're not part of that community . . . maybe not the best choice to engender civil discussion. Maybe just accept the obvious, that people feel strongly (legitimately) about it and choose another hill to die on.

A. I reject your framing of me dying on any hill.
B. I'm not isolating the queer community and biting my tongue when it comes to redevelopment in the literal core of our downtown (4th+colorado) I am a part of this city which is made up of multiple communities. None of us exist in a vacuum here and none of us should be told to stay silent on developments
C. I said in my posts that the bars would at the worst be displaced and more likely than not a couple would be kept and the development would almost for sure be queer themed in other ways.

[shoreditch]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

A. I reject your framing of me dying on any hill.
B. I'm not isolating the queer community and biting my tongue when it comes to redevelopment in the literal core of our downtown (4th+colorado) I am a part of this city which is made up of multiple communities. None of us exist in a vacuum here and none of us should be told to stay silent on developments
C. I said in my posts that the bars would at the worst be displaced and more likely than not a couple would be kept and the development would almost for sure be queer themed in other ways.

I think every argument you've won has been by attrition.

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by shoreditch

I think every argument you've won has been by attrition.

care to address the points made in any of my posts ITT or would you just like to hurl low grade insults?

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

care to address the points made in any of my posts ITT or would you just like to hurl low grade insults?

You’ve been addressed several times. No one agrees or cares what you have to say on this.

[AusTex]

If this tower is built, I strongly feel a big piece of Austin's history will be lost.

The history of the Wearhouse District, the music, restaurants, and general vibrant nightlife scene Austin is known for will be irrevocably splintered. Eventually it will be dispersed into small pieces between high-rises and skyscrapers. Nothing will be left to recall what once was! Especially if West 6th Street sees the wrecking ball as well. This whole block, alley to alley needs to be preserved whole. I love tall buildings, however, history and vibrancy need to be encouraged and protected by the city. The market will destroy it.

Yes I have contacted my city council member about this issue.

[We vs us]

I will say that I think this is largely a done deal. Hanover's been very savvy about how to approach this, IMO, and is leading with the OCH solution. It knows how sensitive this topic is. But it's also smart because it defuses the situation enough so that opposition might be . . . not nullified completely, but blunted, or splintered. "Well, at least they're saving OCH" is what they're counting on.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by We vs us

I will say that I think this is largely a done deal. Hanover's been very savvy about how to approach this, IMO, and is leading with the OCH solution. It knows how sensitive this topic is. But it's also smart because it defuses the situation enough so that opposition might be . . . not nullified completely, but blunted, or splintered. "Well, at least they're saving OCH" is what they're counting on.

As I mentioned before, these buildings likely aren't going to be considered historic or architecturally significant. They've been modified too much. That makes it awfully difficult to tell the owner that they must remain as is and miss out on the millions of dollars their property is worth. Also, the facades are going to be restored to their original, unmodified versions. Some may argue that is an improvement and more historic than what is there now.

Most of the businesses on this corner have never lasted very long. OCH is the only one that has operated here for decades and the developer appears to be sensitive to that. In reality, with all of the development pressure that exists these days, what is proposed is probably the best possible way to preserve OCH (and the nightlife here) for the future. It remains to be seen how it all pans out, but I don't think anyone could have really asked for a better outcome.

Also, this appears to be what OCH wants! It's their business operation, they shouldn't be told what deal(s) they can or can't be a part of.

[MichaelB]

There has to be more that one way to skin this cat: Preserve 4th district . if you don't get it, you won't. But maybe if you read a little and open your heart , you'lll see why so many people are attached to that area. If you are interested , see below. I'm posting this here because there are folks I don't know how to reach that seem to have the same interest I do in Maintaining our vibe as we grow up. ( growing up to be interesting is way better than just growing up )

An Idea I'm passing on to friends in Austin: look to establish the Warehouse district as a Historical Cultural district. It is all that remains of a larger district that has had many identities. From a Statesman article:

For decades, going back to the 19th century, this industrial area along a former railroad spur hosted Austin’s chili and spinach factories, some of its breweries, lumberyards and dry goods stores, all housed in low, mostly brick buildings.

It also was once home to Austin’s primary Hispanic neighborhood, dubbed “Mexico,” which moved slowly to the east.

Beginning in the 1920s, as well as its infamous red light district, known as “Guy Town.”

By the 1970s, like much of downtown, the Warehouse District had emptied out.

In the 1980s, parts of it were made over into Austin’s main gay club district, with sprinklings of key music venues, including Liberty Lunch .Close statement Article.
Like most situations in that time. The Gays were frontier seekers. More like "where the hell can we go that no one else wants so they willl leave us the hell alone". Colorado Street had more gay bars than even 4th in the late 80s and early 90s.

It was also the home to Capitol City Playhouse in the 80s/90s
What is also often left out is that Oil Cans in the mid 80s was an African American Dance Club called "Fire and Ice".

Much like Rainey to the East. This are IS the reason people became interested in Downtown

Add to that the significance of a gay cultural center that has lasted 40 years in a state like Texas That to this day is trying to erase said community. So while to some gay bars are no longer the center of gay culture. To many , especially in Texas as large State that openly bigoted... they are a point of gathering and information.

As folks are gathering in other formats to discuss this, we are passing this idea around. Hopefully not too late.

[Urbannizer]

A petition is up against this one.

https://chng.it/WK5CXh5GhX

[kingkirbythe....]

Coconut Club, Downtown Austin LGBTQ clubs respond to demolition order

https://www.mysanantonio.com/busines...n-17078819.php

Who doesn't want a "cool, chef-driven restaurant" in Austin?

On its face, it's a pretty innocuous notion put forth by a new developer hoping to transform Fourth Street in Downtown Austin. To Coconut Club and Neon Grotto co-owner Cole Evans, it's an empty platitude, the latest in an ongoing push to change his city.

"It sounds like a pitch from someone who doesn't really know kind of what the community is they're serving," Evans tells MySA. "It sounds like development buzz-speak to me."

...

At a meeting with the architectural review committee of the Austin Historic Landmark Commission on Monday, April 11, developers presented a proposal to transform the block at West Fourth and Colorado Streets. Hanover representatives hope to present their case before the entire commission on May 4, at which time, demolition could be approved, which would radically change the look and cultural fabric of the area.

The article notes that Oilcan Harry's, which has a 30-year history in Austin, would be given a second life under Hanover's plan. After getting a temporary relocation, a new space in the tower would be afforded to the club at reduced rent. No such luck for the other LGBTQ clubs on the block.

...

"The response from the community has been incredible. I've seen a ton of people posting about it, people are going to City Hall to fight it, to make sure that we can keep it," Evans says. "We're very appreciative of that and I really, really love it."

Evans doesn't think that LGBTQ clubs are necessarily being targeted by developers, even in light of the recent news of The Iron Bear's apparent impending demise. He chalks it up to the clubs' prime downtown geography and, at the very least, takes solace in the notion that at least Oilcan Harry's can remain on Fourth Street in some capacity.

"I don't know what the motives are, but I do know how I feel about it," Evans says. "And I do know that it's going have a lot of fallout for the community of queer culture in Austin, and the repercussions will definitely be there whether or not the motives are malicious or not."

[ahealy]

That pretty much sums it up for me as well. Very classy response from Cole, who has been part of the Austin community for such a long time.

The more time goes by, the more I'm not good with this whole thing. I still applaud them for keeping OCH at the base, but the rest just sounds so unbelievably bland it's just not something I'd be excited for even if it weren't messing up a neighborhood. My fear is that this will very likely take the street level interaction way down from where it is today. Also realizing just how many people are very vocally against this one.

[Jdawgboy]

Yea I don't want this tower to happen at all. This is the one we will push back on and push back hard. Let's raise the roof at City Hall May 4th!

[mercury6]

not even a skyscraper forum is safe from NIMBYism. Build the tower, bring the housing density