Tewin Algonquin land development [Hwy 417/Boundary Rd] | Proposed

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Just because it's closer than Kanata or Barrhaven doesn't necessarily make it feasible, especially considering how much flak those two suburban communities already take from here and elsewhere.

My main concern is the point raised from rocketphish's link:



So not only was it not costed and voted on but it also had low developmental scoring from city staff.

There is a giant elephant in the room on this file.

At one point they showed a map of the land ownership in the area and how much was in Natural Heritage Features and these lands have a lot of issues.

[lrt's friend]

This was all rejected in the early 1970s because of poor soil conditions. This brought us Orleans and Barrhaven as the alternative.

[J.OT13]

Cross-post:

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Algonquins come out sudden winners in urban boundary vote
Staff scored Algonquins of Ontario parcel poorly for being on bad soil and far from pipes

Kate Porter · CBC News
Posted: Jan 27, 2021 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 4 hours ago

One day after it appeared the Algonquins of Ontario would be left out entirely from the City of Ottawa's plans to expand its urban areas, city councillors voted to allot 445 hectares to the group.

The move would effectively launch a whole new outlying community of 45,000 near the Amazon warehouse, which the Algonquin and their developer partner, Taggart Group of Companies, call "Tewin."

City staff had determined the parcel was far away and scored so poorly it shouldn't even be considered for bringing inside the urban boundary. Staff had produced a map that would grow the city by way of small parcels at the fringes of existing suburbs and services.

After Tuesday's vote, however, the Algonquins of Ontario are now poised to shepherd more than a third of the total 1,281 hectares city council intends to add for future development.


Time for Tewin

Councillors on the planning and agricultural affairs committees were attracted to the idea of creating an entirely new, sustainable community from scratch — an area twice the size of Blackburn Hamlet, to start.

Even more important, they said, was to show their commitment to reconciliation with the Algonquin.

The Algonquins of Ontario have bought up parcels in that area southwest of Boundary Road and Highway 417 at fair market value from the Ontario government as they've been given right of first refusal. The process is separate from their longtime land claim negotiations, which are nearly completed.

In a presentation to councillors Monday, the Algonquins of Ontario said it needed 500 hectares to build a sustainable community of homes that aligned with Algonquin values and included a significant natural area. The Algonquins of Ontario said it waited long enough.



By Tuesday, councillors tabled motions and a dramatic shift began to bring Tewin inside the urban boundary.

Coun. Eli El-Chantiry won the vote to take 175 hectares of land that had scored well in the South March area, and redirected them to Tewin.

Coun. Tim Tierney, meanwhile, convinced colleagues to allocate 270 hectares to Tewin now, instead of doing more study for five years.


Developers decry politics over process

Several councillors expressed concerns about the site, and Catherine McKenney didn't see how councillors had the information they needed to make such a big decision.

Staff had advised marine clay soil conditions might prevent building anything higher than four storeys, which could make construction at Tewin costly and could prevent dense neighbourhoods the city wants.

Tewin received a score of zero for servicing because no water pipes are nearby.

Developers in the South March area were dismayed to have their lands suddenly set aside.

"It is incredibly surprising that in an unprecedented move that politics has taken over a prescribed scoring process and months of work by city staff and included a parcel of land with a zero score on servicing," said Claridge Homes, eQ Homes, Uniform Developments, Multivesco and Minto in a statement.

"The joint committee has taken a step backwards in their supposed step into the future with a new official plan."

No one from the Algonquins of Ontario was available to comment immediately after the decision.


--SNIP--

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...vote-1.5888419

So it's the Government of Ontario who quite possibly swindled the Algonquins of Ontario to buy-up sub-par land. I wonder what "market value" was and if it put into consideration the poor soil conditions and lack of services.

We know that the NCC is fair with potential development partners, taking into consideration the cost of cleaning-up contaminated soils. Not sure the Province would do the same.

[Kitchissippi]

Not only poor soil, but unlike the rest of the urban zone, much of this area drains into the South Nation River which meanders through Eastern Ontario instead of more directly into the Rideau and Ottawa. Storm sewerage is going to add a lot of environmental issues, this effectively spreads water pollution over a wider area.

[Multi-modal]

I agree this area has a lot of problems... and no comment on those. But, it really is intriguing how easy it would be for the City and Taggart/the Algonquins of Ontario to setup a commuter rail line to the Via Rail's Ottawa Station (and Tremblay Station).

I've drawn up an alignment that would only require 4 grade-separations to achieve a fully grade-separated line between VIA Rail's Ottawa Station and the heart of "Tewin" (edit: if you wanted to go deeper into the Tewin lands, grade separations or at-grade crossings of Piperville Road and Thunder Road would also be required, bringing the total grade separations to 6). Overall route length = approximately 14 km to Piperville Road. It would require some sharing of VIA Rail track, but not too much - and I'm sure something could be arranged and/or double track constructed for that length. The VIA Rail structure over Innes Road is already built for double track.

The fun thing about this alignment is it would be pretty easy to eventually extend commuter service to Russell and Embrun (those communities have preserved the NY&O ROW as a trail).



Tewin should also ultimately run frequent bus service along Leitrim Road to connect with Line 2 at Leitrim Station, but that is less fun to draw on a map.

[J.OT13]

And this could be a basic commuter rail line with half hour frequencies. We don't need to spend billions for metros to suburbs. Try to make the area as self-sustaining employment-wise as possible (like Kanata, but even more), but still connect it to the urban core for those who still work in the city and/or for leisure.

There are plenty of arguments for and against expanding commuter tail outside the city, but I would none-the-less support expanding to Russell and Embrun if the Tewin line is successful.

[Nowhere]

Earthquake hazard map :



Bedrock depth :



Worst possible spot to build.

Source : https://www.iclr.org/wp-content/uplo...e_Feb_2014.pdf

[rocketphish]

Bringing Algonquin land into urban boundary shows city's commitment to reconciliation, Mayor Watson says

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Jan 27, 2021 • 25 minutes ago • 2 minute read

Bringing far-flung land owned by the Algonquins of Ontario into Ottawa’s urban boundary “is about sharing the wealth, not just the crumbs,” Mayor Jim Watson said Wednesday.

An overwhelming majority of councillors responsible for making planning recommendations are telling council to include 445 hectares of land owned by the Algonquins of Ontario inside a redrawn urban boundary.

The land is west of Carlsbad Springs, south of Highway 417.

The Algonquins of Ontario, which represents 10 communities in land claim negotiations with the provincial and federal governments, is partnering with Taggart Investments on a major residential development called “Tewin” using the guidance of Algonquin values.

The land scored poorly in an assessment by city planners tasked with determining which lands should be brought inside the urban boundary to satisfy the city’s growth projections. However, planners also gave councillors the option of studying the Algonquin land over five years to see if it could be developed as a new community.

A joint planning and agriculture affairs committee this week voted to remove Kanata-area South March lands proposed to be included inside the urban boundary to allow the Algonquins of Ontario to pursue the rural-east development.

The companies which own the South March lands decried the decision, saying “politics has taken over a prescribed scoring process and months of work by city staff.”

Watson said the city needs to be flexible when it comes to deciding which lands should come inside the urban boundary, even when there’s a council-approved scoring system for lands.

The mayor said the city needs to take action when it comes to reconciliation with Indigenous communities.

“We’re always very good at reading the statement of our respect for First Nations, but this will really be the first time the City of Ottawa has done anything of a very substantive and tangible fashion that will allow our First Nations brothers and sisters an opportunity to create some economic growth and opportunity for their people through employment and through investment,” Watson said.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...or-watson-says

[YOWetal]

It's hard to feel bad for developers. But choosing the worst parcel of land has consequences. It might end up costing the city millions more than it makes the Algonquins. I wonder if we are open to a lawsuit also.

As for a sustainable community I will believe it when I see it. I bet if you get dropped off in the center of the development when complete you won't be able to tell the difference. We'll see of course.

And so much for the theory Developers run city hall. Though maybe some dark money somewhere given one of the first proponents of this in council.

[Acajack]

I'd frankly be shocked if this weren't approved.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd frankly be shocked if this weren't approved.

Indeed. It would seem a brilliant play on Taggart's part.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Indeed. It would seem a brilliant play on Taggart's part.

I can see more of these types of partnerships emerging that make no sense from a planning, engineering,servicing,transit point of view. So much of time spent by Staff to justify the areas that they were recommending all down the drain due to this last minute deal.

With Watson supporting it, this is a done deal. Not a big fan of this.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Tewin should also ultimately run frequent bus service along Leitrim Road to connect with Line 2 at Leitrim Station, but that is less fun to draw on a map.

During the planning committee meeting, there was lots of talk about Tewin tying into the Confederation Line to the east, and it was being touted as a way to balance the passenger flows with the west.

Tim Tierney was talking about some kind of GO-like bus facility at Cyrville station.... I think the city will want the majority of people from Tewin to connect to the Confederation Line east of downtown.

[Acajack]

After looking at a map more closely: is this land not part of the Greenbelt?

Am I looking at the wrong map?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

During the planning committee meeting, there was lots of talk about Tewin tying into the Confederation Line to the east, and it was being touted as a way to balance the passenger flows with the west.

Tim Tierney was talking about some kind of GO-like bus facility at Cyrville station.... I think the city will want the majority of people from Tewin to connect to the Confederation Line east of downtown.

Branching off the Confederation Line would be a massive waste of money. It would only serve industrial and more Greenbelt land. After Stage 3, the City needs to focus on the urban area, not more suburbs.

Start with a bus service, and when the time comes, a GO train type service would be quick to build and relatively cheap.

If we're trying to build a complete community with its own employment base, we don't need the high capacity offered by Confederation.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

After looking at a map more closely: is this land not part of the Greenbelt?

Am I looking at the wrong map?

Which map are you looking at? It's just beyond the Greenbelt.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Which map are you looking at? It's just beyond the Greenbelt.

Thanks. Looking at various Greenbelt maps online.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

During the planning committee meeting, there was lots of talk about Tewin tying into the Confederation Line to the east, and it was being touted as a way to balance the passenger flows with the west.

Tim Tierney was talking about some kind of GO-like bus facility at Cyrville station.... I think the city will want the majority of people from Tewin to connect to the Confederation Line east of downtown.

I generally agree that Tewin transit should connect to the Confederation Line east of Hurdman to balance passenger volumes on the Confederation Line. However, I think commuter rail terminating at Tremblay makes the most sense to accomplish that.

That said, some kind of additional frequent connection to Leitrim, Line 2, and Riverside South also makes sense. We can't have our adjacent suburbs only connect through the inner city.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Thanks. Looking at various Greenbelt maps online.

This map best demonstrates the areas relationship with the Greenbelt.

[lrt's friend]

This will never turn out the way they are selling it. And the cost of servicing this including transit will cost way more than anybody expects.

They are in the process of widening Highway 417 so its not as if we have tremendous road capacity surplus.

I expect this will turn out to be the worst of the worst car oriented suburbs, because we have planned absolutely nothing for transit to go in that direction. It is not an extension of what we are already doing. It is something completely new and will cost an enormous amount.

But for the politicians, this is an easy choice because they will not have to deal with the consequences in the decades to come.

Kanata, Orleans and Barrhaven all have their origins in the 1960s yet we are only beginning to build or plan proper transit to those locations. We think we will have an easy solution for a huge community at Carlsbad? I don't think so.