The Megacity of Lagos, the future World's largest city - Impressions?

[chris08876]

I spent an hour the other day touring Lagos on street view. Fascinating stuff. Density seems off the charts. Hopefully the standard of living improves, lots of potential. But at the end of the day, makes one grateful I suppose because when you think your having a bad day, just know that folks have it much worse. Its kinda sad some of those neighborhoods. Like the sanitation. Looks like some areas they have open sewers which run along the street.

Although hopefully Lagos and the Nigerian government/peoples can do something to mitigate the probable climate situation for that region. Prone to flooding in theory with this slow moving climate disaster in the making.

Was reading that crime is high though.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Like the sanitation. Looks like some areas they have open sewers which run along the street.

There are still open sewers in the U.S. It isn't uncommon in the poorest parts of the Black Belt. Or they run a pipe from their toilet to the woods behind the house.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Maybe among the wealthier areas, but you're saying the average Chinese or Indian household had greater wealth than the average Dutch or French household in 1600? This sounds a tad over-revisionist.

Yes, why does that seem off to you?

I think you are thinking within the context of present biases

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Crawford

There are still open sewers in the U.S. It isn't uncommon in the poorest parts of the Black Belt. Or they run a pipe from their toilet to the woods behind the house.

No. You made this statement about I think Houston a couple of months ago? Those are ditches.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

No. You made this statement about I think Houston a couple of months ago? Those are ditches.

Yes, there are open sewers in the U.S. They are quite common, especially in the Deep South.

Roughly 500,000 U.S. households rely on open sewers or some conveyance outside of city or septic:

A County Where the Sewer Is Your Lawn
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/o...ty-sewers.html

In Alabama’s Black Belt, along the road from Selma to Montgomery where civil rights activists fought for voting rights, there’s a glaring problem that’s all too often overlooked — a lack of working sewer systems.

The Alabama Department of Public Health estimates 40 to 90 percent of homes have either inadequate or no septic system. And half of the septic systems that have been installed aren’t working properly.

Many homes here rely on straight PVC pipes that carry waste from houses to open pits and trenches that often overflow during heavy rains, bringing sewage into people’s yards where children play.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Yes, why does that seem off to you?

I think you are thinking within the context of present biases

The Netherlands was an economic powerhouse in the 1600's, and probably the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth.

I find it hard to believe that the average Dutch household was poorer than the average household in poorer nations with 20x the population. How does that even work?

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yes, there are open sewers in the U.S. They are quite common, especially in the Deep South.

Roughly 500,000 U.S. households rely on open sewers or some conveyance outside of city or septic:

A County Where the Sewer Is Your Lawn
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/o...ty-sewers.html

In Alabama’s Black Belt, along the road from Selma to Montgomery where civil rights activists fought for voting rights, there’s a glaring problem that’s all too often overlooked — a lack of working sewer systems.

The Alabama Department of Public Health estimates 40 to 90 percent of homes have either inadequate or no septic system. And half of the septic systems that have been installed aren’t working properly.

Many homes here rely on straight PVC pipes that carry waste from houses to open pits and trenches that often overflow during heavy rains, bringing sewage into people’s yards where children play.

There is so much wrong with all of this:

1. "Roughly 500,000 U.S. households rely on open sewers or some conveyance outside of city or septic"-

Wait, what percentage of those folks rely on a septic tank vs "open sewer?" My aunt has a septic tank. Why? Because she lives in the middle of nowhere. You aren't going to get city-graded sewer systems when there is 25 people per sq mile.

2. "The Alabama Department of Public Health estimates 40 to 90 percent of homes have either inadequate or no septic system." -

This statement confuses me. This is saying 40-90% of people in this area have inadequate septic tanks or none at all? So those people with no septic tank nor sewer system are simply dumping their shit in their yards? Yeah right. And before you post some picture, anyone who has ever had a septic tank will tell you they can overflow. And if you are poor, it's much more likely to happen. This still doesnt mean theres open sewers in ditches, like you stated before.

3."Many homes here rely on straight PVC pipes that carry waste from houses to open pits and trenches that often overflow during heavy rains, bringing sewage into people’s yards where children play."-

Show me pictures of the massive amount of people(black belt, so its gotta be true because #racism) who have open pits of shit behind their houses.


This article is misleading and sensationalist. You mentioned before that a ditch in Houston was an open sewer. You need to leave NYC and see other people live.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

1000 years ago Europe was a backwater and all of the great centers of thought were in the Middle East.

You don't even have to go back that far.

200 years ago, the United States was a backwater.

Reading through this thread has been quite entertaining; the colonial mentality still exists.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Never say never. India and China were the wealthiest places in the world from basically ancient times until 1700.

Transfers of wealth and power on a dramatic scale do take place in history, and when they do we always seem to have a short memory of what the world order was like hundreds of years prior.

1000 years ago Europe was a backwater and all of the great centers of thought were in the Middle East.

Regarding today, its all about who forges alliances and who gets their shit together. And besides, none of this matters anyhow because none of us can possibly even fathom what the future holds. Will wealth and power even exist...or matter....100 years from now?

At least some people are capable of seeing a time horizon beyond a human lifetime.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

You don't even have to go back that far.

200 years ago, the United States was a backwater.

Reading through this thread has been quite entertaining; the colonial mentality still exists.

Your postmodernist mentality is entertaining.

The US was a backwater-yes. But so was the rest of the world. RELATIVE to the rest of the world, the US was doing good.

Is that a hard concept for you to understand?

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Your postmodernist mentality is entertaining.

The US was a backwater-yes. But so was the rest of the world. RELATIVE to the rest of the world, the US was doing good.

Is that a hard concept for you to understand?

The US was doing well 200 hundred years ago, relative to the rest of the world? How so?

Believe it or not, Europeans looked down on the US and Americans for the longest time, well into the 20th Century, even.

Remember, if you've been raised in the US and went to school here, we've been brow-beaten to death about how great this country is, as if it's always been great since 1776, and that everyone has always thought so.

Is that a hard concept for YOU to understand?

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

The US was doing well 200 hundred years ago, relative to the rest of the world? How so?

Believe it or not, Europeans looked down on the US and Americans for the longest time, well into the 20th Century, even.

Remember, if you've been raised in the US and went to school here, we've been brow-beaten to death about how great this country is, as if it's always been great since 1776, and that everyone has always thought so.

Is that a hard concept for YOU to understand?

1820...We can look at economics. Industrial activity. Governmental system. Take your pick.

Please name me countries that were so much better than the US in 1820?

Yes, they did, what is your point? In any case, that is STILL colonial mentality, since Europeans did 99% of the colonialism, what is your point again?

Let's recap:

1. You said the US was a backwater. You failed to mention that the rest of the world was too.

2. You said we have a "colonial mentality"(which outside of activist and academic settings, will get you laughed at). You said this because we think the US and Europe were doing good relative to the rest of the world 200 years ago. You have no proved us wrong.

3. You then bring up Europeans looking down on America. First, this proves nothing. Second, even if Europeans were well-advanced compared to Americans 200 years ago, this still proves nothing you said as being correct. It simply proves that the "colonial mentality" is an alright concept, since you just fell for it too by showing that Europe was better than the US. And once again, Europe was responsible for about 99% of colonialism, so thinking that Europe is the best is "colonial mentality" 101.

In the end, your freaking signature shows you have zero awareness in your views. Hugo's economy was made on oil yet he makes such a statement? The hypocrisy is out of this world, yet you think it is profound enough to show everyone it every time you post. That says a lot.


Edit: Yes, the amount of immigration to the US does kind of prove we weren't some backwater compared to the rest of the world. Also, current immigration to the US, Canada, and Europe proves they are the best places in the world today. But that isn't politically correct to say. WE MUST BASH OUR COUNTRIES AND OUR HISTORY.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The Netherlands was an economic powerhouse in the 1600's, and probably the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth.

I find it hard to believe that the average Dutch household was poorer than the average household in poorer nations with 20x the population. How does that even work?

The Dutch in the 1600s weren’t barely on the radar of the wealthiest nation in history—the Mughal Empire. (Have you even heard of the Mughal Empire?)

You should learn your history. Once again, you are terribly misinformed and stuck on current biases

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Wait, what percentage of those folks rely on a septic tank vs "open sewer?" My aunt has a septic tank. Why? Because she lives in the middle of nowhere. You aren't going to get city-graded sewer systems when there is 25 people per sq mile.

You're not reading. 500,000 U.S. households have no septic tank or city sewage. They have nothing. There is nothing wrong with a septic tank (20% of Americans use septic) but these folks have nothing but open ditches.

Originally Posted by jtown,man

2. "The Alabama Department of Public Health estimates 40 to 90 percent of homes have either inadequate or no septic system." -

This statement confuses me. This is saying 40-90% of people in this area have inadequate septic tanks or none at all? So those people with no septic tank nor sewer system are simply dumping their shit in their yards?

Yes.

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Show me pictures of the massive amount of people(black belt, so its gotta be true because #racism) who have open pits of shit behind their houses.

You believe the state of Alabama and the NY Times are lying, and there aren't huge numbers of people in the Black Belt with open sewers? LOL. It's another conspiracy??

Originally Posted by jtown,man

This article is misleading and sensationalist. You mentioned before that a ditch in Houston was an open sewer. You need to leave NYC and see other people live.

Houston has raw sewage flowing in drainage ditches, but not technically open sewers, because it's from rainfall, not directly from houses. Also third-worldish, but not really what we're talking about.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Believe it or not, Europeans looked down on the US and Americans for the longest time, well into the 20th Century, even.

if there is one trait about america that i admire above others, it's the fact that we've never given much of a shit about what europeans (or anyone else) thinks of us.

it's a defining trait that gives the nation its strident confidence.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

The Dutch in the 1600s weren’t barely on the radar of the wealthiest nation in history—the Mughal Empire. (Have you even heard of the Mughal Empire?)

You should learn your history. Once again, you are terribly misinformed and stuck on current biases

You're telling me the Mughal Empire was wealthier, on a per household basis, than the Dutch in the 1600's? Total revisionist bullshit.

The Dutch ran the world that century, and produced vast wealth. The Germans were barbarians compared to the Dutch. Even the French and English were far behind the Dutch.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The Netherlands was an economic powerhouse in the 1600's, and probably the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth.

I find it hard to believe that the average Dutch household was poorer than the average household in poorer nations with 20x the population. How does that even work?

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

The Indian economy was large and prosperous under the Mughal Empire.[63] During the Mughal era, the gross domestic product (GDP) of India in 1600 was estimated at about 22% of the world economy, the second largest in the world, behind only Ming China but larger than Europe. By 1700, the GDP of Mughal India had risen to 24% of the world economy, the largest in the world, larger than both Qing China and Western Europe.[64] Mughal India was the world leader in manufacturing,[65] producing about 25% of the world's industrial output up until the 18th century.[66] India's GDP growth increased under the Mughal Empire, with India's GDP having a faster growth rate during the Mughal era than in the 1,500 years prior to the Mughal era.[64]

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You're telling me the Mughal Empire was wealthier, on a per household basis, than the Dutch in the 1600's? Total revisionist bullshit.

The Dutch ran the world that century, and produced vast wealth. The Germans were barbarians compared to the Dutch. Even the French and English were far behind the Dutch.

Yes I’m telling you that it’s totally feasible.

Be mad about it.

Doesn’t change anything, unless you produce evidence to refute it because you know....you haven’t so far.

[muppet]

www.nextbigfuture.com

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You're telling me the Mughal Empire was wealthier, on a per household basis, than the Dutch in the 1600's? Total revisionist bullshit.

The Dutch ran the world that century, and produced vast wealth. The Germans were barbarians compared to the Dutch. Even the French and English were far behind the Dutch.

The Dutch ran the world in the 17th century?

God you are just something else.