LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[McC]

I'm surprised to see how many posters who regularly complain about the painfully-slow pace of the first phase of redevelopment at Lebreton Flats are now so keen to have the second phase of development anchored by (anchored to?) a new hockey arena that we won't need for -- what? -- a dozen years? A project that at the very least would necessitate half that time in painful negotiations around planning and financing the arena.

I'd love to see Ottawa's arena downtown, and LF makes great sense in principle, but there's a "but" coming: Y'all realize that choosing this path probably means that the vast majority of the site stays as it is -- a bombed-out gravel waste isolating the b/west side of town from the CBD -- easily for another decade?

[Stevenson]

Originally Posted by McC

I'm surprised to see how many posters who regularly complain about the painfully-slow pace of the first phase of redevelopment at Lebreton Flats are now so keen to have the second phase of development anchored by (anchored to?) a new hockey arena that we won't need for -- what? -- a dozen years? A project that at the very least would necessitate half that time in painful negotiations around planning and financing the arena.

I'd love to see Ottawa's arena downtown, and LF makes great sense in principle, but there's a "but" coming: Y'all realize that choosing this path probably means that the vast majority of the site stays as it is -- a bombed-out gravel waste isolating the b/west side of town from the CBD -- easily for another decade?

So be it. The museum or other things can be put there first, then the arena can come later.

[Aylmer]

I think an arena would better be suited to the area around Bayview. Nice as it is, sports facilities and casinos usually end up being rather massive vacuums most of the time. If we want a vibrant city district, we'd be wise not to stick an arena in the middle of it, but rather on the edge, so that it doesn't take away from the bustle of a place when it isn't in use, but is close enough for its activity to spill over into the surrounding area when it is.

[silvergate]

Please no more casinos. One at Lac-Leamy should be enough.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I think an arena would better be suited to the area around Bayview. Nice as it is, sports facilities and casinos usually end up being rather massive vacuums most of the time. If we want a vibrant city district, we'd be wise not to stick an arena in the middle of it, but rather on the edge, so that it doesn't take away from the bustle of a place when it isn't in use, but is close enough for its activity to spill over into the surrounding area when it is.

I'd agree with that. If there is will and funding to put an arena there, I'd target that 3.7 hectare plot (shaded yellow on the map, page 1) bounded by Albert & Preston streets as the best location. Aylmer's rationale for putting it to the edge of development is one good reason, but also because it would be roughly equidistant from the Bayview and LeBreton LRT stations. That would encourage transit users to distribute the post-event crush to 2 stations, and also negate the need for O-Train (Trillium line) users to transfer to the Confederation line for just a single stop. Heck, you could even incorporate some kind of covered, or sheltered walkway from each station.

All that said - despite the fact that this is probably the most ideal available location for a new NHL arena, it will take a lot of convincing whoever is going to pay for it, that it's actually needed at this point in time. The NCC is about 20 years late with this invitation to develop.

[Dado]

I've long thought that the area at the foot of the escarpment, that is from west of Bronson in the general vicinity of the tunnel portal, should be the site of a new downtown Ottawa railway station.

Track level would be at about the same level as the current Transitway-Booth intersection, which is also about the same level as the existing rail line at Bayview, placing it some depth below Bronson@Albert/Slater. I'm thinking something like 6-8 tracks, with maybe 2 of them lined up with one or both of Albert and Slater for possible future eastward extension via tunnels.

It would then be possible to bridge over the tracks and platforms to the west to support something like a hotel or a new central library. Maybe even a new Sci&Tech museum. Really anything that needs lots of floor space but not a lot of parking. Done right, an arena would still fit further west, around Preston.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Dado

I've long thought that the area at the foot of the escarpment, that is from west of Bronson in the general vicinity of the tunnel portal, should be the site of a new downtown Ottawa railway station.

Track level would be at about the same level as the current Transitway-Booth intersection, which is also about the same level as the existing rail line at Bayview, placing it some depth below Bronson@Albert/Slater. I'm thinking something like 6-8 tracks, with maybe 2 of them lined up with one or both of Albert and Slater for possible future eastward extension via tunnels.

It would then be possible to bridge over the tracks and platforms to the west to support something like a hotel or a new central library. Maybe even a new Sci&Tech museum. Really anything that needs lots of floor space but not a lot of parking. Done right, an arena would still fit further west, around Preston.

I think there's a better chance of that ending up at Bayview. There's a bit of space there, and most users would be transferring to the Confederation Line anyways, so saving them one stop isn't worth the cost of running the tracks across the flats. It also keeps rail service to Gatineau feasible.

[1overcosc]

If we're going to invest in a downtown intercity rail station, I want a revival of Union via a cut and cover tunnel beneath Colonel By & the AVTC corridor instead.

I favour a hockey arena, but closer to the western edge of the site as others have suggested. Makes sense to me. Closer to Booth, have a science and tech museum and all the other good stuff.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

If we're going to invest in a downtown intercity rail station, I want a revival of Union via a cut and cover tunnel beneath Colonel By & the AVTC corridor instead.

Agreed. The corridor is all there.

[OTSkyline]

A downtown train station is just not gonna happen. Especially since regional rail isn't very big at all and I don't see it becoming a big thing in the near future. Places like Toronto have huge regional rail systems with GO as there are so many other centres and big cities in the surounding areas.

For example, Toronto has:
-Oshawa (150,000)
-Ajax/Pickering (200,000)
-Guelph (120,000)
-Kitchener/Waterloo (365,000)
-Burlington (175,000)
-Hamilton (520,000)
Total encatchment of 1,530,000 people in the surrounding region that could be potential riders to and from Canada's largest city of 5M + people.

In comparison, Ottawa would have:
-Arnprior (10,000)
-Rockland (25,000)
-Carleton Place (10,000)
-Kemptville (5,000)
-Casselman (5,000)
Total encatchment of 55,000 people in surrounding region. I just don't think it's enough to warrant an elaborate investment and regional rail system.

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by phil235

Not a bad idea. Maybe something along the lines of the Central Park Zoo. I have no doubt that it would get a tonne of use.

I believe we already have a ZOO further down east on Wellington st

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by McC

I'm surprised to see how many posters who regularly complain about the painfully-slow pace of the first phase of redevelopment at Lebreton Flats are now so keen to have the second phase of development anchored by (anchored to?) a new hockey arena that we won't need for -- what? -- a dozen years? A project that at the very least would necessitate half that time in painful negotiations around planning and financing the arena.

I'd love to see Ottawa's arena downtown, and LF makes great sense in principle, but there's a "but" coming: Y'all realize that choosing this path probably means that the vast majority of the site stays as it is -- a bombed-out gravel waste isolating the b/west side of town from the CBD -- easily for another decade?

It would be nice if whatever they decide if phase 1 was low hanging fruit that would be built relatively quickly (townhouses, parks, shops, etc) while the higher hanging fruit (high-rise buildings, museums, libraries, arenas, etc) go through the long process that they probably require.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by teej1984

I dont know if I want to see height in this area. We've seen the colossal f'up that some height did with the Fusion, so why don't we go for narrow streets with dense, low-rise town house type buildings. Like a traditional old neighbourhood with main streets, grid patterns, small parks, squares, etc. Height isn't the be all and end all of development.

Too bad the street plan has already been laid out, and is basically suburban crap.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by silvergate

We envisage a bold, new anchor institution that will welcome the public, serve as an economic driver, feature innovative use of the land, and bring design excellence, animation and a unique public experience to the nation’s capital.
Wonder who that will be

Shoppers Drug Mart.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Dado

Can someone please tell me what is the point of this video? Go on Uhuniau, I know you want to make a snide comment.

I kept hoping for something to happen, but no, nothing. Rather like the NCC and LeBreton Flats, come to think of it.

Soothing but basically bland music, soaring visuals and no action. The NCC in allegory.

Your one-stop shop for every NCC planning cliché.

Parliament Hill? Check.
"Green space"? Check.
"Open space"? Check.
Multiple lanes of nationally-significant traffic? Check.
14-flag set? Check.
The fallow fields of Lebreton? Check.

About the only thing missing was Gréber personally ripping up some railway tracks.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Stevenson

I don't see the need for a library in this digital age

The need for a library is greater than ever, with a price tag attached to everything in the digital era. Everything seems free until we remember the monthly charges on smart phones, tablets, Internet connections and cable/satellite TV. If you don't have a lot of money, you are shut out from the modern world. The role of a library is changing as it embraces the digital world as well.

[lrt's friend]

My idea of the arena/casino combo is really about helping to make the arena financially viable just as the mixed development made the Lansdowne project possible. Repatriating money being spent at the Lac leamy casino is as valid today as when the downtown casino idea was first floated by the province. Although I continue to support the casino at Rideau-Carleton Raceway, it will have minimal impact on drawing money back to Ontario currently being spent at Lac Leamy.

[silvergate]

I feel like a casino doesn't actually give Ottawa back that much revenue. If OLG runs it then it will have to come through the Ontario government first anyways. And realistically a casino is not going to attract that much new money to the city in terms of tourist dollars. It will just bring some Ottawa dollars into Ontario from Quebec. We could probably generate better revenues by focusing on bringing tourists into the capital and spending money on local businesses, who would spend money within the city.

[ServiceGuy]

If you are talking Lebreton Flats what better place than a modern version of the science museum? The St. Laurent location has been a hit for literally decades but it's time. It's time to bring it up to date and modernize for current interests and technology. I do hope they would keep the crazy kitchen though.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

A downtown train station is just not gonna happen. Especially since regional rail isn't very big at all and I don't see it becoming a big thing in the near future.

I had in mind it being for intercity rail.