National Capital Region Beer News

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I don't know why there's such a political taboo, when there isn't a societal one. Ontario needs to get out of the era of the Orangemen and the WCTU.

Come on folks... this is strictly about the Liberal Party continuing to receive large donations from Coors, etc. The big 3 brewers are large contributors to all political parties, so party in power won't change anything.

It's a fine line between "political donations" and "kickbacks".... and we're well into the territory of the latter.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

The government will fix the prices, grocery stores can only sell in quantities up to six packs with no pack-up pricing (discounts for multiple six-packs) allowed, grocery stores will have to purchase from the LCBO and can't receive any incentives from suppliers, grocery stores will have mandated shelving space (20%+) for smaller brewers, there will be a limit to $1 million in sales per store, stores will have "appropriate distribution" across urban Ontario... .

Other than the reasons you listed it is totally a free enterprise system..basically the wild west of beer selling, Ontario style.

Trust me, this thing is going to be a clusterf**k.

How does this help people in small towns, that are too small to have one of the chosen supermarkets but still have the rinkydink Beer Store/LCBO's.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Come on folks... this is strictly about the Liberal Party continuing to receive large donations from Coors, etc. The big 3 brewers are large contributors to all political parties, so party in power won't change anything.

It's a fine line between "political donations" and "kickbacks".... and we're well into the territory of the latter.

Campaign contribution limits to political parties are $9975 per year, plus $6650 for individual candidates. Do you have any evidence that someone is breaking the law, or is this just garden variety conspiracy theory?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The membership model would probably create complications. We don't yet know if Costco will be able to participate in the beer license auction.

It doesn't create any problems in Quebec.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It doesn't create any problems in Quebec.

Yes, but Quebec has much more liberal alcohol laws. Ontario's liberalization still puts a much larger number of restrictions and rules on beer sales than exists in Quebec.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

It's not about taboo. It's about preserving union jobs. If the Liberal Gov't was so concerned about choice and selection being available, they'd have not pressed so many restrictions onto the grocery stores.

I'll still buy in Quebec. Far cheaper.

This isn't about the Liberals. Or any political party.

It doesn't matter whether it's the Liberals, or the PCs, or the NDP in power. Alcohol liberalization always has taboo. Recall that Peterson, Rae, and Harris all abandoned baby steps towards liberalization as soon as the backlash started.

Ontario is Ontario and the political party in power doesn't change that fact. I doubt having elected either Hudak or Horwath to be Premier in the 2014 election would have made anything different in the alcohol scene.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by phil235

Campaign contribution limits to political parties are $9975 per year, plus $6650 for individual candidates. Do you have any evidence that someone is breaking the law, or is this just garden variety conspiracy theory?

Well there is this:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...ians_cohn.html

A Toronto Star tabulation shows more than $525,000 was donated to the three major political parties by The Beer Store, its foreign owners and the union representing beer industry employees in 2013 and 2014. That windfall contrasts sharply with the federal political scene, where any donations by corporations and unions are prohibited by law.

And this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle23964098/

More than a dozen powerful Liberals have gone to work for the Beer Store in recent years, lobbying the government on behalf of the foreign corporations that enjoy a private monopoly on beer retail in Ontario.

A Globe and Mail analysis of lobbying and other records found at least 17 Liberal workers who moved, in the past decade and a half, to the Beer Store or the companies that own it.

These include a top campaign adviser to Premier Kathleen Wynne, two former chiefs of staff to her predecessor, Dalton McGuinty, and several former aides to Ontario cabinet ministers
....
Ms. Wynne’s office repeatedly refused to divulge how many times the Premier or her staff have been lobbied by the Beer Store, and defended lobbying as “an essential part of democracy.”

I really don't think politics is as clean as you might suggest.... and contrary to Kathleen Wynnes comment... I don't believe the above is an "essential part of democracy".

There is a lot more to this folks... and I need convincing that decisions are being made "in the best interest of Ontarians" as opposed to be best interest of large multinational corporations who use money and influence to buy their way to their desired laws...

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ontario is Ontario and the political party in power doesn't change that fact. I doubt having elected either Hudak or Horwath to be Premier in the 2014 election would have made anything different in the alcohol scene.

Exactly.... see my comment above. Unions and large corporations are far more important to the government that the citizens they are "supposed" to serve.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Well there is this:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...ians_cohn.html




And this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle23964098/


I really don't think politics is as clean as you might suggest.... and contrary to Kathleen Wynnes comment... I don't believe the above is an "essential part of democracy".

There is a lot more to this folks... and I need convincing that decisions are being made "in the best interest of Ontarians" as opposed to be best interest of large multinational corporations who use money and influence to buy their way to their desired laws...

Fair enough - as a cumulative amount, that is significant.

I do think that they are constrained by the various agreements that the province has made over the years. There is no way to extract themselves overnight without paying big penalties, which would not be acceptable at this time..

[Radster]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

I'll still buy in Quebec. Far cheaper.

Yes and no, depends what you buy. While 24s of Bud or Molson Ex are $26 plus tax and deposit at a grocery store in Quebec, which is cheaper than Ontario, there are exceptions. Tall boy cans of numerous import beers are often (but not always) cheaper at LCBO than on the Quebec side. Also, don't get fooled with the price comparison, rememeber that in Ontario the price of beer and wine includes tax, while in QC it doesn't.

[McC]

Originally Posted by Radster

remember that in Ontario the price of beer and wine includes tax, while in QC it doesn't.

and the bottle deposits, too, IIRC.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by Radster

Yes and no, depends what you buy. While 24s of Bud or Molson Ex are $26 plus tax and deposit at a grocery store in Quebec, which is cheaper than Ontario, there are exceptions. Tall boy cans of numerous import beers are often (but not always) cheaper at LCBO than on the Quebec side. Also, don't get fooled with the price comparison, rememeber that in Ontario the price of beer and wine includes tax, while in QC it doesn't.

Or the fact that you could technically be charged with smuggling by purchasing alcohol in Quebec and bring it to Ontario.

Although this article is related to a NewBrunswicker it pertains to all Canadians. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/karen-s...me=falsesize=m

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by phil235

I do think that they are constrained by the various agreements that the province has made over the years. There is no way to extract themselves overnight without paying big penalties, which would not be acceptable at this time..

Good Point... I'm sure they've covered their rears in as many ways as possible...

[Radster]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

Or the fact that you could technically be charged with smuggling by purchasing alcohol in Quebec and bring it to Ontario.

Although this article is related to a NewBrunswicker it pertains to all Canadians. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/karen-s...me=falsesize=m

That article mentions a 12 pint limit, so if its under that, for example a 12 pack, you're fine. Wonder if there is a similar limit in Ontario.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by phil235

I do think that they are constrained by the various agreements that the province has made over the years. There is no way to extract themselves overnight without paying big penalties, which would not be acceptable at this time..

That could be true, but that's not what the government is saying.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Radster

That article mentions a 12 pint limit, so if its under that, for example a 12 pack, you're fine. Wonder if there is a similar limit in Ontario.

I don't personally know anyone in Ottawa or Gatineau who has ever gotten in trouble for carrying too much beer over the provincial border. It appears to be mostly unenforced.

My brother knew a booze home delivery driver who got in trouble but only after getting pulled over for something else. He had a dozen 24s in his car which way over the limit.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

That could be true, but that's not what the government is saying.

No, communcations folks don't tend to like the "we signed some agreements that are very disadvantageous to taxpayers" line.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by phil235

No, communcations folks don't tend to like the "we signed some agreements that are very disadvantageous to taxpayers" line.

True. Communications folks do practice the art of bullshit.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

I don't personally know anyone in Ottawa or Gatineau who has ever gotten in trouble for carrying too much beer over the provincial border. It appears to be mostly unenforced.

I thought I heard that silly law had ended... but it didn't get a lot of publicity..

http://globalnews.ca/news/1829880/ch...cross-borders/

In any event... I hope the powers that be don't hang out and record license numbers in the Gatineau Costco parking lot on a Saturday

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

Or the fact that you could technically be charged with smuggling by purchasing alcohol in Quebec and bring it to Ontario.

Although this article is related to a NewBrunswicker it pertains to all Canadians. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/karen-s...me=falsesize=m

Although this is finally changing: http://globalnews.ca/news/1829880/ch...cross-borders/