Toronto: Tea Party mayor on the rocks

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

My heart bleeds. hehehe suckas....


Oh, wait...



Robert Skinner, La Presse

There is worse....much, much worse:

laPresse

[yaletown_fella]

I would have thought property tax cuts would be more sensible than scrapping the vehicle registration tax.
Rob Ford seems disorganized and lacks foresight regarding his promises. One could direct a sizable amount of the blame on his progress thus for the re-election of McGuinty and and the unsustainable and frightening spending at provincial level. Miller might have been an idiot socialist but the budget shortfalls were relatively minute. If Toronto is the gravy train Ontario is the gravy Titanic.

I'm a Ron Paul supporting Libertarian and I'm hardly impressed with Ford.

But then when you looked at the election alternatives, 'nuff said.

[samne]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

I would have thought property tax cuts would be more sensible than scrapping the vehicle registration tax.
Rob Ford seems disorganized and lacks foresight regarding his promises. One could direct a sizeable amount of the blame his progress thus far for the re-election of McGuinty and the unsustainable and frightening spending at provincial level. Miller might have been a socialist but the budget shortfalls were relatively minute.

Regarding Miller: Thats because running a Municipal deficit is illegal under Ontario legislation.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

because canada isn't always what the media class pretends it is. there are a great many people who live, work and vote, and yet resemble, say, pierre trudeau to no noticeable degree.

This is true, and I deeply, deeply resent it. While I hardly expect my neighbours to be potential walk-on panelists for QI, I wish to fuck the yahoos in Stratford didn't cheer so lustily during the July 1st parade when the Dukes of Hazzard car makes its appearance and does its signature honk.

I mean...fuck.

And then Ford got elected. Again...fuck.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by M II A II R II K

Read More: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/...111108/toronto-tea-party-mayor-the-rocks

Fun irony when I clicked on the link:

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[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by rousseau

This is true, and I deeply, deeply resent it. While I hardly expect my neighbours to be potential walk-on panelists for QI, I wish to fuck the yahoos in Stratford didn't cheer so lustily during the July 1st parade when the Dukes of Hazzard car makes its appearance and does its signature honk.

For real, we have enough hicks living here. - And they are given way to much representation on Election Day. That shit has got to change.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well, Toronto doesn't really feel like a city in the United States because it is not in the United States. But to me at least (and to many other people I would guess) it does feel like a Canadian city that kinda... sorta... a teensy bit... tries to be like an American city - without actually going all the way over the edge.

In most countries the largest city or cities typically transcend the national culture - London, New York, Berlin, whatever - certainly even Montreal within Quebec, and Toronto is no different in that sense. Its not so much an issue of multiculturalism or anything, but rather, that in these sorts of cities there is simply more of an "global" outlook - which is perhaps what you see as being "American" (and likewise, what draws the ire of so many Canadians). Of course, it could also be that having the American behemoth a few kilometres away (that, and the intertwining history & culture our two countries share) causes it to comprise a disproportionately large share of that outlook.

But going back to the mayor, I don't see how Rob Ford is supposed to represent "Americanized" Toronto anyway - as though only Americans have ever elected incompetent right-wing jackasses to public office. Toronto has a long history of terrible politicians (I think having party affiliations at the municipal level would help tremendously - but thats another discussion). Then again, its also had no shortage of forward-thinking, innovative progressives, either.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

In most countries the largest city or cities typically transcend the national culture - London, New York, Berlin, whatever - certainly even Montreal within Quebec, and Toronto is no different in that sense. Its not so much an issue of multiculturalism or anything, but rather, that in these sorts of cities there is simply more of an "global" outlook - which is perhaps what you see as being "American" ...

But nobody seems to consider London or Berlin "American". In fact those cities are often held up as disctinctively British and German places, respectively, even if they have a blend of domestic and international culture. I don't think the "global city" view is 100% wrong but it is an overly flattering interpretation of Toronto's relative lack of a sense of place. A better explanation is that it used to be a much smaller city and hasn't been around for very long so its local culture has been subsumed.

Like it or not, Ontario's also always had close ties to the US. In that sense it is somewhat American.

[kool maudit]

the "transcending canada" thing is as canadian as all the rest of our claims against provincialism (our great fear, for colonial reasons). montreal says it too. that's not it.

if you know america, i mean, if you have real thing for that country, travel around there a lot (and not just new york, but like winston-salem and hartford and indio and memphis etc.), talk to the people... you instantly recognize that toronto isn't it.

it's a great thing, but it's not america. it's just wired differently. chimps and bonobos. i don't know how else to put it.

[TheMaxMan]

Yeah... I guess Toronto might look and feel American to fresh Euro or Asian tourists, but that's where it stops - it's 'American' only in the shallowest of comparisons.

For better or worse, Toronto's got its own vibe. It ain't Chicago or NY or LA or any other American city... nor is it Montreal or Vancouver, for that matter. But it's definitely a vibrant Canadian city.

[yaletown_fella]

I don't get why people label Ford a redneck seeing as prior to being elected, he was wealthier than 90% of SSP users. Thus far he's proven to be a dishonest, disorganized and unproductive politician. The superficial elements such as character, charisma, and background are completely irrelevant to me. That's where a lot of the left media focus is sadly.

[kool maudit]

commonwealth high-capitalist:





it may look "american" to the refuser of distinctions... but it ain't.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

I don't get why people label Ford a redneck seeing as prior to being elected, he was wealthier than 90% of SSP users.

redneck doesn't mean poor. in the modern sense, even very wealthy, say, pool supply store owners can be rednecks.

they tend to have things like jet skis, and bookshelves full of motor trend magazines and souvenir baseballs.

you have to expand your notion of snobbery -- it's a magnificently broad playing field!

[TheMaxMan]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

I don't get why people label Ford a redneck seeing as prior to being elected, he was wealthier than 90% of SSP users. Thus far he's proven to be a dishonest, disorganized and unproductive politician. The superficial elements such as character, charisma, and background are completely irrelevant to me. That's where a lot of the left media focus is sadly.

You can be a redneck tycoon. It's no problem at all.

The right-wing media is every bit as shallow about politicians/personalities/celebrities.

[vid]

I wonder if Toronto's similarities to the United States have anything to do with the city's proximity to that country?

Nah, they're just a bunch of New York wannabes. But not us! Not Mycity!

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by someone123

But nobody seems to consider London or Berlin "American". In fact those cities are often held up as disctinctively British and German places, respectively, even if they have a blend of domestic and international culture.

It could certainly be argued that they're more "American" than Liverpool or Bristol or Munich or Dresden (but not to the extent that Toronto is, of course). Though, then we start getting into more troublesome arguments of just what "American" is. But they certainly aren't very representative of their national culture, that much is for sure - they're quite different from anywhere else in their respective countries, thats basically the point.

Like it or not, Ontario's also always had close ties to the US. In that sense it is somewhat American.

As I said, Canada as a whole has always been intertwined with the US. That we are two different countries is more a matter of historical chance than any conscious cultural distinctions leading to become two nations - and that goes for Quebec too. If it weren't for the repressive actions of American revolutionary David Wooster, it could very well have become a part of the US.

That we have a largely shared culture is not a bad thing nor does is make any less of Canada.

[Mister F]

^^

Originally Posted by niwell

Yes, the Bill's play one regular season game a year in Toronto.

NFL teams have also played in London and Mexico City, to much fuller stadiums no less. They must be wannabe American too!

Originally Posted by mr.John

What bait? I'm asking about property taxes in the Toronto area, the reason is because I've talked to a few people from TO and they give me wildly different numbers (none of them live downtown)

Try going right to the source. The City of Toronto has all its property tax rates on its website.

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

In most countries the largest city or cities typically transcend the national culture - London, New York, Berlin, whatever - certainly even Montreal within Quebec, and Toronto is no different in that sense. Its not so much an issue of multiculturalism or anything, but rather, that in these sorts of cities there is simply more of an "global" outlook - which is perhaps what you see as being "American" (and likewise, what draws the ire of so many Canadians). Of course, it could also be that having the American behemoth a few kilometres away (that, and the intertwining history & culture our two countries share) causes it to comprise a disproportionately large share of that outlook.

Ironically, there are plenty of Americans that consider New York to be the most un-American place in the US.

Originally Posted by someone123

But nobody seems to consider London or Berlin "American". In fact those cities are often held up as disctinctively British and German places, respectively, even if they have a blend of domestic and international culture. I don't think the "global city" view is 100% wrong but it is an overly flattering interpretation of Toronto's relative lack of a sense of place. A better explanation is that it used to be a much smaller city and hasn't been around for very long so its local culture has been subsumed.

Like it or not, Ontario's also always had close ties to the US. In that sense it is somewhat American.

Close ties or not, the first large scale settlement of Ontario was by people who defined themselves as not being American. You may not see it because you've trained yourself to look at Ontario in a certain way, but the differences when you cross the border are stark. Anyway re: London being "American", last time I checked it wasn't 130 km from America. But even still, I'm sure you could find lots of people in Yorkshire or Wales who'd say it is pretty American.

[someone123]

Isn't it a bit odd to get upset at somebody for pointing out that a place sort of has characteristic X and then implicitly agree by saying "well, what do you expect?"

It's fine to point out that the Loyalists self-identified as non-Americans but they were trapped by their own cultural experiences, which were overwhelmingly limited to what is now the US. They were incapable of constructing a culture as distinct from US culture as, say, Indian culture was back then. Only from a very parochial perspective were they dramatically different. To consider the two cultures opposites you'd have to completely ignore the rest of the planet.

I never said that Toronto is identical to a US city. It is not. I've been to many parts of Canada and the US and many differences are immediately apparent. But so are lots of similarities, despite the fact that we're not supposed to talk about them because some Canadians wish their own culture were more exotic.

[Innsertnamehere]

edit

[Gerrard]

Berlin actually does feel quite "American" -in comparison to other European capitals (many reasons why and mitigating factors).

I'm sure if Toronto had maintained its more colonial attributes people would be saying it felt like an English burg.

In the end there's a lot of focus on defining the city from elsewhere in the nation (I suppose it really is that alien to some). Slightly amusing considering the people that actually live here really don't spend all that much time doing it themselves.

I'm also not so sure "American" is an insult. I doubt much people in Montreal or San Francisco are all that mortified when someone says those cities feel "European" -anymore I imagine than Berliners or Londoners would be all that insulted if you said their cities felt unlike their respective nations.

The Great Lakes is a REGION, despite imaginary borders, and thus will share many cultural similarities while at the same time maintaining a certain distinctiveness from each other.

Now back to Mayor Cheeseburger...