America's Best Restaurant Cities: Esquire Magazine

[mhays]

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

Jewish food is NY's unique cuisine. All over, people talk about NY bagels, NY pastrami, etc.

NY is the "West Bank" of Israel.

I wouldn't call it a whole cuisine, and while both are known as part of NY culture, it's not anywhere near the way Cajun/Creole is tied to NO/LA.

[CentralGrad258]

Originally Posted by Chef

The thing that both Seattle and Portland have going for them is that the northwest has really great ingredients. There is a large network of small farms that grow specifically for restaurants and some of them have produce year round. In the winter Minnesota localvore restaurants tend to get their produce from farms in the Willamette Valley and the quality of stuff I have seen from there is really high, it would be higher if we didn't have to have it flown in.

For a number of reasons there is more of that type of farming on the west coast than there is on the east which is why Seattle has a better food scene than Philadelphia. Really it comes down to the quality of your local ingredients. The bigger the network of local farms that sells directly to restaurants is, the better dining scene a city will have in general. It makes a bigger difference than population (within reason, at some point population and affluence does trump it).

All that is nice and all, but the question comes down to: which place has better food. I just don't think Seattle competes with Philly for the sheer number of quality restaurants and top notch chefs. The byo scene alone is pretty much unparalleled in the country. And the Amish have been producing locally grown food since before the term locavore even existed.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by SD_Phil

Good list that (surprisingly) doesn't seem to be generating all that much controversy. Is this a first? Should we note the date/time?

Probably because it was so predictable...

[Capsule F]

Originally Posted by Chef

The thing that both Seattle and Portland have going for them is that the northwest has really great ingredients. There is a large network of small farms that grow specifically for restaurants and some of them have produce year round. In the winter Minnesota localvore restaurants tend to get their produce from farms in the Willamette Valley and the quality of stuff I have seen from there is really high, it would be higher if we didn't have to have it flown in.

For a number of reasons there is more of that type of farming on the west coast than there is on the east which is why Seattle has a better food scene than Philadelphia. Really it comes down to the quality of your local ingredients. The bigger the network of local farms that sells directly to restaurants is, the better dining scene a city will have in general. It makes a bigger difference than population (within reason, at some point population and affluence does trump it).

This is a joke. Seattle does not have a better food scene than Philadelphia, for many reason other than local ingredients. Besides, we are right next to Lancaster County, Amish country, we practically invented the local ingredient trend. Food is one of the things in which Philadelphia overachieves.

Its real simple, this list required no thought, and an entire city could be left out just because the writer had not visited it that year, or it didn't occur to them.

[Crawford]

I think Philly has the 4th best food scene of any downtown in the U.S.

Really only NYC, SF and Chicago have a better central-city food scene.

Based on this alone, I think Philly probably deserves inclusion in a Top 10 list.

And now that I think of it, I think I wouldn't include New Orleans. Obviously unique and interesting regional food scene, but very small, poor metro with relative lack of diversity.

I find it hard to believe that New Orleans would compare to, say, Philly, when it comes to, say, West African, Latin American, or Middle Eastern.

And the relative size and wealth of Philly compared to NO likely means there are many times the number of "destination" restaurants.

[Gordo]

List looks pretty good to me, though I could see Philly or Atlanta sneaking in to the bottom of the list over Seattle or Boston.

Also, it's mentioned in the article, but certainly if Napa and Sonoma are included with SF that would vault SF ahead of Chicago. That said, I agree with Chicago being higher if we're just talking about close-in metro areas or city centers.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by POLA

Jesus, I'd put LA above Chicago. How that place beats SF is just odd. Is it just because it has a richer history?

...did you sleep through the last decade?

[Chase Unperson]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think Philly has the 4th best food scene of any downtown in the U.S.

Really only NYC, SF and Chicago have a better central-city food scene.

Based on this alone, I think Philly probably deserves inclusion in a Top 10 list.

And now that I think of it, I think I wouldn't include New Orleans. Obviously unique and interesting regional food scene, but very small, poor metro with relative lack of diversity.

I find it hard to believe that New Orleans would compare to, say, Philly, when it comes to, say, West African, Latin American, or Middle Eastern.

And the relative size and wealth of Philly compared to NO likely means there are many times the number of "destination" restaurants.

Philadelphia? Absurd. I have never heard of any influential chef or cuisine associated with Philadelphia.

New Orleans absolutely deserves to be on the list. Though it is small its cultural shadow is huge. It is a great restaurant town not just because of the unique creole food or cajun food. You go to a small corner place and get a burger and onion rings and it like the best onion ring and burger you have ever had in your life. Or you go to a dive bar and they are serving boiled shrimp or crawfish and they are fantastic. It is a combination of that and the famous chefs and restaurants and unique cuisines.

[BrianSac]

Originally Posted by mhays

Paris has great food, but apparently it doesn't have much Mexican. Can it really rank high then? Really?

Yeah, but hey have plenty of other excellent peasant foods from the south. Spanish, Portuguese, Country French, and Italian... along with North African influences. I never miss Mexican food when in Europe.

[annie himself]

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

Jewish food is NY's unique cuisine. All over, people talk about NY bagels, NY pastrami, etc.

NY is the "West Bank" of Israel.

Jewish food is from Israel. Thats the point I am trying to get across.

Originally Posted by lawfin

God....trite, hackneyed and jaded.......you are a pro at generalizations and misinformation......

undoubtedly proudly

I just explained my opinion, you didn't offer anything to the thread, please do in your next post.

[CyberEric]

Originally Posted by BrianSac

Yeah, but hey have plenty of other excellent peasant foods from the south. Spanish, Portuguese, Country French, and Italian... along with North African influences. I never miss Mexican food when in Europe.

When I lived in Spain I definitely missed Mexican food.

As for this list, I think the top three are pretty much right on, although I think you could make a good argument for SF as number two.

As for the rest, unless there is someone here that has eaten at the top restaurants in every one of these cities within a reasonable amount of time, I think it's impossible to make any assertions. I doubt the author has even done it.
How would you even go about doing it? Go to the top five restaurants in each city? Even then it would be impossible to rank them. What if City Y's third best restaurant was better than City X's third best? But X's top restaurant was better? It's all pretty much nonsense after a certain point.
That's why these lists are basically worthless except for chest beating and boosterism exercises.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by annie himself

Jewish food is from Israel. Thats the point I am trying to get across.

LOL, no.

Israeli food has nothing whatsoever to do with American-style Jewish food, which has its roots in Central Europe.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Chase Unperson

Philadelphia? Absurd. I have never heard of any influential chef or cuisine associated with Philadelphia.

Well I certainly have, but that seems irrelevent to the list.

I've also heard of a cuisine associated with Maryland's Eastern Shore, but that doesn't mean I think Salisbury, MD is a culinary capital.

Originally Posted by Chase Unperson

New Orleans absolutely deserves to be on the list. Though it is small its cultural shadow is huge. It is a great restaurant town not just because of the unique creole food or cajun food. You go to a small corner place and get a burger and onion rings and it like the best onion ring and burger you have ever had in your life.

Many food critics are quite critical of the NO food scene, and consider it tourist-driven and derivative.

And I still find it hard to believe that a relatively poor city with little diversity would deliver greater dining breath and quality than a city 4-5 times the size.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Chase Unperson

Philadelphia? Absurd. I have never heard of any influential chef or cuisine associated with Philadelphia.

Are you serious!?! Do you watch Food Network much? Iron Chef America? (Hint hint...)

(And he's just the tip of the iceburg.)

[annie himself]

Originally Posted by Crawford

LOL, no.

Israeli food has nothing whatsoever to do with American-style Jewish food, which has its roots in Central Europe.

You got me.

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Are you serious!?! Do you watch Food Network much? Iron Chef America? (Hint hint...)

(And he's just the tip of the iceburg.)

I was thinking the same thing, just wasn't sure.

[RobertWalpole]

Originally Posted by Crawford

LOL, no.

Israeli food has nothing whatsoever to do with American-style Jewish food, which has its roots in Central Europe.

True. "Jewish food" (i.e., bagels, knishes, pastrami, latkes, etc.) developed well before there was an "Israel". And Jews in Palestine certainly weren't noshing on bagels with a smear during Roman times. They were developed in the Polish ghettos.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by SD_Phil

Good list that (surprisingly) doesn't seem to be generating all that much controversy. Is this a first? Should we note the date/time?

Spoke too soon. This has rapidly turned into a Philadelphia vs. Seattle food fight.

[1ajs]

but can the city vs city stuff guys. if other cities have better selction perhaps they arnt so much know by these people who do the list as sometimes things do get missed so be chill and whats being said about philly is true perhaps over the next few yrs it will begin to climb the list

[ocman]

Originally Posted by pico44

So tell us what's wrong with the list. Is it because he didn't mention enough restaurants by name? I don't think thats it, unless you think he should have just listed the 20 best restaurants in each city. Is it because he made some generalizations about each city's dining scene? Well that is kind of the point of such lists, so that isn't it either.

And please give us an example of his infamous untrustworthiness. I'm not saying you're wrong (I'm not familiar with his writing other than this rather agreeable list), only that you did nothing in your post to prove you know more than someone who actually gets paid to write about food.

It's not about generalizations. It's about outdated platitudes. I won't even call it generalizations, because most of it doesn't doesn't ring true today for most of the cities.

I'll break it down for you the ones that are most offensive. Chicago -"hog butcher of the world!" NO-"Cajun-style!" LA-"Hollywood hang-outs and sushi obsessed!" Houston -"tex-mex and bbq!" SF-"Alice Waters and california cuisine!" Boston-"the east coast SF!" It's an asinine list derived from the worst, most obvious city stereotypes with a couple of newish restaurants tokenly thrown in for relevancy.

If you follow food (especially in Chicago) then you know the critic's reputation. And you inevitably heard stories from good sources about how he makes sure that the establishment knows who he is before he arrives, gave a list off demands for the reviewed restaurant to pay for hotel rooms and cab faire before his arrival, once gave a pre-printed recipe card to the bartender at Alinea to make his drinks (they didn't and Alinea is noticeably absent from that list), dines with restaurant publicists, dines at restaurants on days when they are closed, accepts comped meals, and gives poor reviews to restaurants that don't kowtow to his behavior. There's more too.

[Serenade]

Ditto with the Philly comments. Portland should also be mentioned. Take Houston and Vegas out (unless it's based on the number of chains in each city) and replace them with Philly and Portland.